Understanding God’s election

[rogerg]

What are we told about mockery?
If I may, I find your post to be unkind. We do not gain anything in a debate if we seek to hurt someone's feelings by making fun of them.

Please consider my words are offered with love and respect.

I see it as sarcastic joking to make a point - it has to have a little sting to be funny. If you read their posts, Genez and cv5
(and others) don't hesitate to do the same thing - to be fair, you should also inform them of the same.

 

[Cranberry]

I see it as sarcastic joking to make a point - it has to have a little sting to be funny. If you read their posts, Genez and cv5
(and others) don't hesitate to do the same thing - to be fair, you should also inform them of the same.

I would hope my post did inform those who behave the same way.
I would ask that you consider we are responsible for our own behavior. Others also acting out as you do should serve as a teaching from God in a forum of this nature.

I think it is one thing to presume to defend ones understanding of the Scriptures.
However, how we do so is I think more telling of an example as to how we live their message. And how their messages live within we who are indwelt by God.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my observations.

 

[Cranberry]

Genez and I studied under R.B. Thieme, who was a graduate of DTS, whereas I attended SWBTS. However, I believe my main teachers have been the writers of GW & the HS, culminating in the Gospels containing the TOJ and the epistles of Paul, after whom I named my son. Although I was raised as a Baptist, after reading the Bible on my own I considered myself to be a nondenominational Christian, and when I compiled a website (that I offer to y'all as a resource to also copy & paste from like I do :^), I named it <truthseekersfellowship.com>

Thank you.

 

[Inquisitor]

Because your interpretations are incorrect, either due to poor teaching or coming from your imagination.

Can you explain Joseph and his brothers?

 

[Rufus]

What are we told about mockery?
If I may, I find your post to be unkind. We do not gain anything in a debate if we seek to hurt someone's feelings by making fun of them.

Please consider my words are offered with love and respect.

And accepted as such. Sometimes, though, it may be necessary to "mock" when civil discourse produces no result, cf. Gal 5:12.

 

[Inquisitor]

So, Peter in first epistle was writing it to "service"?

God chose Israel to his chosen nation, didn't he? He chose Abraham to bring forth that nation, didn't he? And he chose Issac over Ishmael to inherit the promises God gave to his father, didn't he? And he chose Jacob over Esau. And God chose to raise up ungodly servants, as well, didn't he? He chose Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc.

God only chose Judah from the twelve brothers.

Joseph was not chosen nor were the other ten brothers.

This is one of the places where your interpretation blows a tire.

 

[rogerg]

Can you explain Joseph and his brothers?

Yes, at a high level and spiritually speaking, Joseph was a picture of Christ. His brothers, while being a representation of the elect, nevertheless, betrayed him. Joseph forgave them for that betrayal, brought them back to him, and took care of their needs as their leader, and they followed him. Spiritually, it has absolutely nothing to do with the nation of Israel or of the Jews per se.

 

[Genez]

Which are three more than you ever had or likely ever will have. Look how pathetic you are. You're even ashamed of the college you attended even though you boast of your great theological education.

My great theological education is found here....


ROBERT B. THIEME, JR. (1918–2009) remains a significant voice of Christianity throughout the world. His diligent, expository teaching is based on the original languages of Scripture in light of the historical context in which the Bible was written. His innovative systems of vocabulary, illustrations, and biblical categories clearly communicate the infallible truths of God’s Word. Thieme recorded more than eleven thousand hours of sermons and published more than one hundred books covering much of the Bible.


Thieme graduated from the University of Arizona (Phi Beta Kappa) and Dallas Theological Seminary (summa cum laude). His seminary studies were interrupted by World War II military service during which he rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel in the United States Army Air Corps. After completion of his graduate work in 1950, he became pastor of Berachah Church in Houston, Texas. His extensive training in Greek, Hebrew, theology, history, and textual criticism provided the foundation for his demanding professional life of studying and teaching the Word of God. Thieme retired as pastor of Berachah Church after fifty-three years of faithful service.


https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

 

[Genez]

Ahhh, actually, no, it is not the foundation for how we will be judged. The foundation for how we will be judged is whether
or not we have been justified and made righteous through Christ, not by our works or the lack thereof. And that demonstrates that your belief is founded in works for salvation, not in grace and through Christ. Quite revealing actually.



Good suspicion on your part - on this, we agree.



Going on record in Heaven? Winners and losers? Really? Let me ask you this: what do think Christ's achievement was and brought forth as the Savior? What do you think the purpose of a Savior is?

You are stuck with the nipple of a baby bottle in your mouth!
You guys never grow up.
Always talking about how you think you were born....
Never growing up and leaving the cradle.

 

[Genez]

Ahhh, actually, no, it is not the foundation for how we will be judged. The foundation for how we will be judged is whether
or not we have been justified and made righteous through Christ, not by our works or the lack thereof. And that demonstrates that your belief is founded in works for salvation, not in grace and through Christ. Quite revealing actually.



Good suspicion on your part - on this, we agree.



Going on record in Heaven? Winners and losers? Really? Let me ask you this: what do think Christ's achievement was and brought forth as the Savior? What do you think the purpose of a Savior is?

There will be REWARDS distributed to those who reach spiritual maturity.
Salvation in Christ was only the beginning to entering into the 'good fight' Paul mentions.
All you talk about is how you were born.

Here kid.... some warm milk in a bottle.

 

[rogerg]

You are stuck with the nipple of a baby bottle in your mouth!
You guys never grow up.

uhm okay @Cranberry - sitting back now, just poured myself coffee, waiting to hear from you so ga ahead - I'm: "stuck with the nipple of a baby bottle in my mouth and "never grow up". Your turn.

 

[Rufus]

God only chose Judah from the twelve brothers.

Joseph was not chosen nor were the other ten brothers.

This is one of the places where your interpretation blows a tire.

God chose Judah for a specific purpose, as He did for the family line of David: To bring forth the Messiah, so that he would have traceable, verifiable lineage. But God chose all 12 tribes to be his people.

When Peter wrote to messianic believers in his First Epistle, he addressed them as God's elect -- his chosen ones (1Pet 1:1-2)! Also, Jesus referred to God's chosen people as God's elect (Mat 24:22).

My tires are in good shape, thank you.

 

[Rufus]

My great theological education is found here....


ROBERT B. THIEME, JR. (1918–2009) remains a significant voice of Christianity throughout the world. His diligent, expository teaching is based on the original languages of Scripture in light of the historical context in which the Bible was written. His innovative systems of vocabulary, illustrations, and biblical categories clearly communicate the infallible truths of God’s Word. Thieme recorded more than eleven thousand hours of sermons and published more than one hundred books covering much of the Bible.


Thieme graduated from the University of Arizona (Phi Beta Kappa) and Dallas Theological Seminary (summa cum laude). His seminary studies were interrupted by World War II military service during which he rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel in the United States Army Air Corps. After completion of his graduate work in 1950, he became pastor of Berachah Church in Houston, Texas. His extensive training in Greek, Hebrew, theology, history, and textual criticism provided the foundation for his demanding professional life of studying and teaching the Word of God. Thieme retired as pastor of Berachah Church after fifty-three years of faithful service.


https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

So...you went to a Fundamentalist college. The last place I would ever want to be to receive an education, since Fundies bring an awful lot of baggage to their theological positions.

 

[rogerg]

There will be REWARDS distributed to those who reach spiritual maturity.
Salvation in Christ was only the beginning to entering into the 'good fight' Paul mentions.
All you talk about is how you were born.

Here kid.... some warm milk in a bottle.

Not! Here's what you posted in 5422. Sounds to me like you're talking about eternal judgment not rewards, (if there
is such a thing - which I doubt there is), no?
"
When we stand before the Lord, all speculation. No matter how dogmatic, convinced, and emotional we were about it.
Will be finally burned up as wood, hay, and stubble. And, heard no more.

Yet, as we judged others, and projected upon them our own faults?
It will become a part of the foundational basis for how He will judge us.
Judge not, lest ye be judged. "As you judge… you shall be judged."

 

[rogerg]

So...you went to a Fundamentalist college. The last place I would ever want to be to receive an education, since Fundies bring an awful lot of baggage to their theological positions.

Maybe I missed it, Rufus, but I didn't get that he included his college in that post, did you find it in there? Sounds to me like he was exclusively referring to ROBERT B. THIEME, JR. (1918–2009), not himself. Am I wrong?

 

[Genez]

That was obvious from your first reply. I'll be direct.
I don't believe your claim of having attended a Bible college and graduating with honors.

Those who have actually done so are not ashamed to give its name.

I graduated with honors, yes.

After graduation I then discovered the pastor teacher who could teach in one hour more than most could teach in a year.
Bible college (not seminary) is only foundational.

Bible colleges were popping up in the 70's and 80's.
There were actually churches that actually systematically taught the Word of God, be it, correctly or not.


Would you like to also know the elementary school I attended as a boy?

I would much rather talk about a pastor-teacher who made corrections to some of the things I learned in Bible college.
He was a literal travelling seminary.

Billy Graham asked him to mentor him. Hal Lindsay and Chuck Swindoll were members of his congregation.
He was invited to give classes at universities and colleges.
His students were anywhere from high school graduates to professors!
Deep teaching when learned by grace gives one a perspicacity that exceeds beyond their normal human limitations.


And? By invite. He even gave a conference at MIT.

Yet, the average guy on the street also found themselves able to understand what they knew they could not have if it
depended upon their natural IQ. You know its by grace when that happens!

Take your pick of any Bible college in those days.... Its only a maternity ward.
Let's just say it was your Bible college.

Why not?

 

[Genez]

uhm okay @Cranberry - sitting back now, just poured myself coffee, waiting to hear from you so ga ahead - I'm: "stuck with the nipple of a baby bottle in my mouth and "never grow up". Your turn.

YUP ... you guys want to nail down our sandals and only speak about TULIP.

 

[Genez]

That was obvious from your first reply. I'll be direct.
I don't believe your claim of having attended a Bible college and graduating with honors.

Those who have actually done so are not ashamed to give its name.

Yes.

 

[brightfame52]

“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭


“and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nothing about Christ being a potential Saviour. He is the Saviour of the world of His elect

 

[Rufus]

Maybe I missed it, Rufus, but I didn't get that he included his college in that post, did you find it in there? Sounds to me like he was exclusively referring to ROBERT B. THIEME, JR. (1918–2009), not himself. Am I wrong?

Maybe I got it wrong. Although, Genez and GWH both claim they studied [together] "under" R.B. Thieme. Where they studied, I don't know. Maybe one or both of them took online courses???