Question about the Trinity
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I agree with the above.
While I don't doubt that Jesus the man had a sexual orientation, the term you need here is 'gender', as in male/female, and He is male.
Gender is not merely personality but physical... right down to every cell in our bodies. Further, "personality" is rather limiting when it is used to encompass "image of God".
Let's be careful not to add to what Jesus said, even if it is a reasonable conclusion.
You've taken this too far. Creation provides evidence for God, and God is present everywhere, but panentheism is a heretical view, for God is wholly distinct from creation.
While I don't doubt that Jesus the man had a sexual orientation, the term you need here is 'gender', as in male/female, and He is male.
Gender is not merely personality but physical... right down to every cell in our bodies. Further, "personality" is rather limiting when it is used to encompass "image of God".
Let's be careful not to add to what Jesus said, even if it is a reasonable conclusion.
You've taken this too far. Creation provides evidence for God, and God is present everywhere, but panentheism is a heretical view, for God is wholly distinct from creation.
Lol whether implicit or explicit, indeed, if one is not a Christian they will definitely perish in the eternal hellfire. Denial of the trinity doctrine is denial of being a Christian and so implicitly the only outcome guaranteed to them is hellfire everlasting. Since the Athanasian Creed perfectly describes the Christian faith denial of any part of the contents of the Creed identifies one as being either a pagan or a heretic in grave error and so the only explicit guarantee for them is all hellfire everlasting.
I'm well aware of the distinction between pantheism and panentheism, and also that both are heretical views of creation. The latter conflates the created with the creator.
Were God not wholly distinct from creation, He could not be the Creator. John 1:3 says of Christ and the creation, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made", and Colossians 1:17 adds "He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
Were God not wholly distinct from creation, He could not be the Creator. John 1:3 says of Christ and the creation, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made", and Colossians 1:17 adds "He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
Lol not even remotely close. Again the Athanasian Creed perfectly describes both the trinity doctrine and the Christian faith, denial of any point of the Athanasian Creed means you don't actually have the Christian faith which you will definitely never be saved. You is used here in impersonal way, meaning even if I were foolish enough to abandon Christianity and join you, I wouldnn't change the Christian faith, I would just end up in the everlasting hellfire. That's why when you're baptised it's in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and if it's not you better take a hard look at the cult trying to baptize you.
The others are actually correct about panentheism. To not get digressed too far and try to keep it somewhat to the topic, panentheism would make God into basically an impersonal force rather than a personal God or elsewise you'd be adding the world, which is of course the enemy of God, as one of the persons of the trinity, so yea, panentheism is no good. This perhaps why earlier I detected hints of modalism, which it would lead to if one tries to combine it into the trinity as well as subordinationism. What you want is just good old fashioned theism where our God is the trinity in unity of the persons of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit
The others are actually correct about panentheism. To not get digressed too far and try to keep it somewhat to the topic, panentheism would make God into basically an impersonal force rather than a personal God or elsewise you'd be adding the world, which is of course the enemy of God, as one of the persons of the trinity, so yea, panentheism is no good. This perhaps why earlier I detected hints of modalism, which it would lead to if one tries to combine it into the trinity as well as subordinationism. What you want is just good old fashioned theism where our God is the trinity in unity of the persons of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit
I don't really think you really read that which you quote considering I wrote the third and fourth sentences specifically just in case you in the personal sense of the word would try to play this game. So ironically you've actually provided evidence against your own assumption lol. So I'll just state again if you in the impersonal sense of the word, which includes all people including me, are foolish enough to deny any point of the contents of the Athanasian Creed. especially to the topic of the trinity doctrine, this means you're not a Christian and if you in the impersonal sense are out of the boundaries of the Christian faith you will end up in the eternal hellfire.
One cannot comprehend what is incomprehensible. The Profane human common traits of the One true God is reducing the living God to that of water, ice, and steam? Or a chicken egg to the one who created all of that. No one can fully understand the infinite God when they are finite. God established the meaning and plantation of His attributes to us in three ways :
by his creation = General revelation
By his word = Special revelation
and by relationship with His Son.
the rest is a Mystery that we must approach reverently and with humility. Roman chapter one and Job 40 are great explanations, and God answers to man's understanding.
by his creation = General revelation
By his word = Special revelation
and by relationship with His Son.
the rest is a Mystery that we must approach reverently and with humility. Roman chapter one and Job 40 are great explanations, and God answers to man's understanding.
Well I shall cap my participation of the topic here with this last post since it is obvious it will just become an endless attempt to move goalposts and digress into greater theology and personal squabble, which is fun and all, not complaining, but would be better served with another topic. For the OP's sake in the question about the trinity doctrine and understanding it; there is no good analogy for the trinity doctrine that does not stray into heresy. The best summary of the trinity doctrine besides literally posting the entirety of the Bible would be the Athanasian Creed which is proven through thousands of years of discourse to hold firm and is certified by all the true saints official. Though it is still highly recommended to read the entire Bible for the great benefits that it brings, for the sake of time to understand the trinity doctrine the Athanasian Creed is sufficient. With particularly the first half of the Athanasian Creed being the most relevant in most thoroughly explaining the trinity doctrine. The trinity doctrine has no analogy but is also not incomprehensible, occult, or unable to be understood. Therefore I will just merely repost the Athanasian Creed and bold it, and will red highlight the first half which pertains to the trinity doctrine. It is good, like the Creed states to think on the trinity if you want to actually attain salvation, and without which faith kept whole and undefiled one will be certain to perish everlasting. Praise Jesus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed
Athanasian Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father infinite; the Son infinite; and the Holy Ghost infinite. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed
Athanasian Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father infinite; the Son infinite; and the Holy Ghost infinite. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.
The trinity is hard to understand for some and even harder to convey.
The easiest way to understand it at least for me is...
GOD .....is the designer.
JESUS......is the contractor.
HOLY SPIRIT.......is the maintenance.
All the same company.
As you can tell I'm a blue collar retired type 😆........hope this helps.
The easiest way to understand it at least for me is...
GOD .....is the designer.
JESUS......is the contractor.
HOLY SPIRIT.......is the maintenance.
All the same company.
As you can tell I'm a blue collar retired type 😆........hope this helps.
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