Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
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K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
Lol.
Well, I am happy to see that at least 5 people (emojis) are celebrating my REPUDIATION of Calvin's false "god."
It's a start...
Dear @Pilgrimshope ....
The Greek in Ephesians 2:8 and I have spoken to Pastors who know Greek well and I have researched and researched because that is my livelihood, faith in that sentence is not attached to THE GIFT, the GIFT IS salvation according to the grammer, structure of the sentence.
A person must believe/faith (noun and verb in Greek) in the person of Christ Jesus and His gift offering. He is the object one's faith!!
When one does this one receives the gift of salvation.
People are able of their own volition by the power and truth of the Gospel, conscience and external movement of God's spirit to respond POSITIVELY. The hearts are not changed until after they exercise faith.
God does not give "belief" or change a heart so a person can believe, that makes God elitist with regards to salvation.
God does strengthen of give more faith in scripture to those have already become believers.
YOU know it really is rocket science and to call this "Calvinism" is fully warranted because it is based on a lot of his writings!
I think you see now how false the non-able-to-believe-inability doctrine really is by the defenders on this thread. There is a reason it is called the Non-Gospel.
Yes, it is with the heart that one believes. The stony heart of the natural man cannot receive the Truth.
The ground is not prepared for it.
Ah, yes, that is a definitely a problem here. People pretend they know what we believe and that they understand what we believe and that they properly represent what we believe, and then all kinds of nonsense is spewed, vulgarities and lies, and they claim it is what we believe, they may say, according to so-and-so, as if it really does apply to us. The ease and frequency with which they lie is alarming.
It is all me, my joy being exceedingly multiplied.
These are for all the other people on this thread.....
I pray they are richly blessed for standing firm on God's plan of salvation (ordo salutis)
You should also repudiate those who claim they know and understand and properly represent what another believes when they do not.
Especially when they misrepresent quite a lot. Are you up to that task?
Yes it is a fruitless endeavour.
Ironically, I have been told it takes a work of God to pry people from this false doctrine whatever portion of it they have taken in.
In reality, I do not think boxes are much use for anything other than things like cakes.
@keepingthingsreal here is an excellent example of someone not understanding at all and completely misrepresenting what those she disagrees with believe. Like just taking it to the most ridiculous conclusion possible. And this is called proper by them.
I see now you may have departed. Too bad. It is almost impossible to find someone in the
free will camp who is reasonable to any degree. Still, I was hoping you might be one of them.
And when I say free will, I do not mean freed will.
I dont know honestly if I’m preserving anything here sister . I think everyone believes they are right and also do actually have some points and also some points that are being ignored and not acknowledged.
Sometimes at least of myself , I wonder if I’m not accomplishing my own portion of this here more than anything else
“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?”
1 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV
when we come to points we don’t agree upon already if we ( not you or anyone else in this thread but in general as chrirtians discussing doctrine ) turn against each other labeling ourselves right and true and anyone who doesn’t agree not of the truth or it’s enemies , if we do this one side to the other back and forth
then we will only destroy what faith we do have for one another .
If we have respect and open ears towards even those who disagree maybe what they are saying has a place in the understanding of the discussion and we only haven’t noticed how it fits yet . Maybe then both parties would have a benefit and grow towards the truth in totality rether than clinging only to the fragments they themselves have proved and heard from the lord
what I mean is as chrirtians we ourselves forst and foremost should have goals like this for our selves
“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance:
against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
Galatians 5:13-17, 19-26
It takes a work of God to pry false doctrine, but unsaved people can change their minds apart from such revelation? That's incredible.
This is true and, going forward, I'll try to remember to poke holes in any boxes I put anyone in.
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
As I told you once before, I have only read a very limited amount of the posts on this thread, so I am not familiar with what/who you are talking about. If anything, then I called out Cameron for that very thing in my final response to him. At my end, here, as with elsewhere, I have tried to civilly and courteously dialogue with others. Unfortunately, I have had to put certain people on "ignore" in my short time on this site, and with certain others I have recognized the futility of even trying to dialogue with them further. Anyhow, I hope and trust that I am not one of those people you are talking about.
Have a blessed day.
Honestly I’ve been trying to say I think this discussion is going in gigantic circles and isnt making anyone any smarter lol or more mature in Christ because for whatever reason we arent hearing the other people over the battle cries lol
I do understand how you feel, I am moving on back to Trump thread for a while ... lol.
There is only one way people are saved and Paul made it very clear, probably the best stand alone verse of his.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
The gift is salvation, it was not us who made the gift it was Christ Jesus, we accept in faith.
K
