Understanding God’s election
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I tell you what cv5 and crew. You're all the pinnacle of truth, you all speak the truth and are always right and us "little lost people" should shut our mouths and listen to you guys with ALL the right answers. You don't have to explain anything you believe, nor do you have to listen at all to what others are saying, use no understanding, no empathy, do not try to speak to your brothers or the lost with respect by addressing their actual words, Oh no, YOU are smart enough to tell us what we believe first and cause all the division you want using lies and false witness. Everyone should listen to you humble servant's of the most high. .
You are wrong about men being "born good" that is a false teaching from Satan, and you are wrong that our choice has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the Grace Gods gives us. You're wrong and your cultlike defense of these false teachings are plain for all with eyes to see and ears to hear to behold themselves. You kings of everything have a great Christmas
You are wrong about men being "born good" that is a false teaching from Satan, and you are wrong that our choice has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the Grace Gods gives us. You're wrong and your cultlike defense of these false teachings are plain for all with eyes to see and ears to hear to behold themselves. You kings of everything have a great Christmas
What Jesus said actually showed that the man who thought he was a teacher knew nothing of Spiritual things. Don't be a Nicodemus. Too many here are already.
Boasting would also be saying you did not need God's help in order to believe in Him. You go on to speak of testifying but I have never seen you do so... although I have seen you make fun of people who do testify. Do you value testimonies or do you not??? You come across as the latter.
Try and keep up man. The invaluable contents of this thread and the conclusions thereof are quite conclusive my friend.
The sum and total of the compendium is thus: the Calvinites were wrecked.
Hopelessly defeated at every skirmish. Then every battle. Then the war.
Outwitted, out-maneuvered and out-scholared. At every point.
It never really was much of a fight. They never stood a chance. It wasn't even close.
That's the part that truly baffles me... how they can kick and scream and deny that it is God Who brings us to belief by HIS will ... which Scripture specifically states, since the natural man is incapable of obeying, which Scripture explicitly states... but they prefer to ignore the specifically stated estate of the natural man despite ALL that is said of him. then they pretend is us who is twisting Scripture when they refuse to accept what is explicitly stated, such as Philippians 1:29 For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake not only to believe in him but also to suffer for his sake ... and 1 Peter 1:3 blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ who according to his great Mercy has caused us to be born again to a living Hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. John 1:13 specifically says we were born by the will of God ... not the ll of man... not the will of the flesh ... the flesh is incapable. I can see why they want to pretend that all that is said of the natural man in the flesh doesn't exist so they can push their false doctrine of free will. But it still remains a false doctrine.
Calvin states: “The reward of eternal salvation, as promised by the Lord, awaits the perfect obedience of the Law.” (Institutes 2.7.3)
Did Calvin believe that society should be under the law?
I also believe we have a moral obligation since we defending the biblical plan of salvation.
As someone once argued, Calvinism entails that the gospel has only the power of a delivery boy.
But Paul proclaims and he starts his letter to the Romans with the idea that there is power in the Gospel message and people can believe it!
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek” (Rom1:16).
From what has been presented in this thread, which lines up with Calvinism, is that the good news is not the gospel, but it is learning you are one of the unconditionally elected and selectively and irresistibly drawn to the Father.
Yeah Nicky’s asked a question and Jesus answered I’m okay being like that it’s what his disciples always did . Only when he answered tbey didn’t reject what he said . what I did was show you the scripture that Jesus answers him when discussing being born again ….and what Peter said and what Paul said about it . Not sure how you reckoned this is me saying born again isn’t real still puzzled by that part
im alright being like Nicdemus he asked Jesus a question and got an answer when he was wondering what Jesus meant about being born again .
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? ( this would be literally being born again )
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
John 3:3-6 KJV
Im alright bekng like Nicosemus more people should be like him. Born again is a concept that describes his God makes us new through remission of sins through Jesus death and resurrection
When we’re born again , or “have our flesh circumcised through baptism “ this is who we are now in Gods eyes as we’re born of water and spirit in his name and raised up again without our sin having been remitted in his name
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (We died in baptism with him and now we put on Christs identity as gods child )
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
we’re born again in Christ through the doctrine of the gospel. It’s a phrase that’s showing us a concept of dying with Jesus and being raised up new with him or “ born again “ of water and spirit
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death
we died with him ) that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”( we’ve been set free and made new in him born again forgiven for our sins and accepted as sons in him )
Romans 6:3-4 KJV
ots the same thing you call corcumcision of the flesh removing the sins of the flesh through baptism and faith in his resurrection for the new life part or the concept being conveyed by the term “ born again “
“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,( we died with Jesus for our sins in baptism ) hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
Colossians 2:11-13 KJV
When we are brought up from or born from the water
“And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: ( water) and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: ( spirit )
and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”( new persons identity )
Matthew 3:16-17 KJV
born again means something
How should I know what Calvin believed?
I thought you believed what Calvin taught?
Not one person on this thread would argue with this. We all need God's help. Faith come by hearing the word of God. His Spirit draws all men unto him. But not all men are saved because many reject him. See Romans 1.
Also when he spoke to people who had already heard the gospel and Jesus teachings he shows the power of it to bear the fruit
“for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
as ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;”
Colossians 1:5-7
because it’s coming from the gospel message Jesus taught like the orable of four souls how the seed is the word of the kingdom , and our hearts are like soil . Sometimes Satan snatches away the seed other times we believe at foret but then we hear more and it becomes difficult and we stop or other times riches and possessions and cares of the world make the word unfruitful in us but then some hear it and know it’s value to them so they accept the seed and it becomes fruitful just because it was planted and not defiles or taken being unguarded
“Keep thy heart with all diligence; For out of it are the issues of life.”
Proverbs 4:23 KJV
“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.”
Philippians 4:6-9 KJV
You should tell yourself that and maybe stop thinking you need to lecture me because I'm the one that believes it's a real event and you are saying it's not a literal thing. There is certainly enough said about it for you to investigate the reality of it, and if you're not literally born again you will die the second death.
Nicodemus had no understanding... you can be like him if you wish, I suppose, though it would not be my preference, neither for you nor myself. We could say that the whole thrust of Scripture is telling us that we need to be born again and you're saying it's not literal... well I'm sorry I cannot agree with you on that. Just like I think that understanding the difference between the natural man and the one who has a circumcised heart is an importantant enough distinction to make and discuss.
Well that is the important dividing line isn't it,
the letters are written to people who have heard and responded to the Gospel through faith.Paul does not teach that the power of the Gospel is insufficient to save for those who respond in faith.
You believe a lot of weird stuff. And I've already proved you're wrong about what you think of what I believe so maybe you should just stop while you're ahead... not that you are.
So that's why your understanding of the scripture is far more often off-the-rails than not. You obviously do not work very much to accurately handle the Word of Truth.
Are you trying to make it look like anybody here teaches that the power of the gospel is insufficient to save those who respond in faith??? Just how deceptive are you????Well that is the important dividing line isn't it,
Paul does not teach that the power of the Gospel is insufficient to save for those who respond in faith.