Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

I am quite convicted that unfallen Adam COULD perceive BOTH her spiritual degradation and physical as well.

Without being taught what it is?
How could Adam even know that?
What examples could unfallen Adam be shown to know what spiritual death is???

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That flesh was provided for by means of Mary's ovum!
The 'seed' of the woman! (Genesis 3:15)

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:​

​

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,​

but a body you prepared for me." ​

​

Hebrews 10:5​

​

His flesh had to be fully human to qualify to die in our place!

“but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-15, 17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Blain]

Work is a blessing. No doubt Adams work was a joy before the fall.

But it became painful and burdensome and worrisome. As did living.

[Gen 3:17 KJV]
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;

[Gen 3:18 KJV]
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

I agree work is a blessing if I was able to I would work again I have a thing for physical labor I am weird like that.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I can empathize with you, as I, too, have multiple health issues. I frequently pray to God that he would give me an abundance of grace so that I can continue until my dying breath to glorify his Name with my witness for the few short days I have left of my life. (If my entire lifespan is but a vapor, that is here one moment and gone the next, then how little time do I or anyone else my age have left?)

I will pray for your health issues.

Amen prayer is a good choice to make anytime regarding anything I appreciate it and God bless your health as well and hear your prayers well

 

[Genez]

I agree work is a blessing if I was able to I would work again I have a thing for physical labor I am weird like that.

God bringing you to share and teach in this forum is an assigned work.

 

[cv5]

I think it paints a perverse picture of reality. All men sin because they inherit a dead spiritual nature, ie separated from God, which prevents them from having perfect knowledge of God's will, therefore they sin. It says that men sin because spiritual death entered the world, not because of deformed DNA, which is a consequence, not the main cause, of generations of sin

On account of this as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin, death, thus to all men death passed, upon which all sinned. Romans 5:12​

God's definition of "death" is separation from Him.

You are making the HUGE mistake of thinking that Adams fall is the "future/eternal death".
This only happens after the GTW judgement in the lake of fire.

This is DEFINTELY not the case today, despite the inane ignorant ravings of the Calvinites.
We living souls are NOT created "eternally dead", already condemned.

And if we were already condemned at birth, Christ would have come in vain,
because it would have been too late as the FINAL JUDGEMENT WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN RENDERED!
And FINAL JUDGEMENT has NOT yet been rendered. It is yet future. Get it?

Christ came to give us RENEWED life, eternal life, abundant life, and reverse the curse.
This is definitely possible under the present state of circumstances of man.

Adam was separated, yes. But only by degrees. Not completely, not permanently.
Why? Because the Bible makes clear that Adam was a "special case". Thats why.
His sacrificial love being the crucial factor.

I mean God is certainly on speaking terms with mankind right?
Adam did not keel over after he ate the fruit right?
Adam was not cast immediately into the lake of fire right?
God was interacting with Adam and Eve and their progeny post fall right?
God has made covenants with men right?

=================================================================

And AGAIN, the clueless Calvinites got all of this "spiritually dead" business ALL WRONG man.
They get it all wrong I'm telling you.

 

[cv5]

I agree work is a blessing if I was able to I would work again I have a thing for physical labor I am weird like that.

LOL yes, I always loved to work. Even since I was a kid with a paper route. It has been a great blessing in my life.
Not anymore though. Just too old and tired. My limits nowadays are pretty low.

 

[Blain]

LOL yes, I always loved to work. Even since I was a kid with a paper route. It has been a great blessing in my life.
Not anymore though. Just too old and tired. My limits nowadays are pretty low.

well I am young but my body works like an old man to much trauma in life cancer ect. but I was born with a good work ethic.

 

[Blain]

God bringing you to share and teach in this forum is an assigned work.

me teach? lol all I know is that he said he wanted me to be the spark that ignights the flame so hopefully I can be that. after all it only takes a spark to make the fire burn but you are right this is a good work any thing I can do to bring others closer to him that is my greatest joy

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

God's definition of "death" is separation from Him.

You are making the HUGE mistake of thinking that Adams fall is the "future/eternal death".
This only happens after the GTW judgement in the lake of fire.

Which is what I said, and nothing more. Being separated from God is enough to cause a man to sin because there is nothing inside of a man that knows how to do God's will apart from a spirit in union with God

 

[cv5]

Without being taught what it is?
How could Adam even know that?

Yup. Definitely.

Why? Adams was a spectacular super genius for one thing.

Oh and then there is this:
Adam was a "type of Christ" in many unique phenomenal ways.

[Gen 1:26 KJV]
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

[Heb 1:3 KJV]
Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

=========================================================================

Adam was a VASTLY more elevated creation than the Calvinites opine.
They think that he was a foppish, stupid knuckle dragging fool.
Weak, pathetic, easily manipulated, a doormat for the Woman etc etc.
Yes, they have posted these types of descriptions. Sick.

The facts are that Adam SUCESSFULLY resisted Satan when 1/3 of mighty angels fell.
Adam was NOT DECIEVED by the most powerful and wisest created being in all of existence!

 

[cv5]

Which is what I said, and nothing more. Being separated from God is enough to cause a man to sin because there is nothing inside of a man that knows how to do God's will apart from a spirit in union with God

Sounds like more Calvinite bafflegab mischief to me.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The facts are that Adam SUCESSFULLY resisted Satan when 1/3 of mighty angels fell.
Adam was NOT DECIEVED by the most powerful and wisest created being in all of existence!

Maybe satan never talked with Adam

 

[Genez]

Yup. Definitely.

Why? Adams was a spectacular super genius for one thing.

Oh and then there is this:
Adam was a "type of Christ" in many unique phenomenal ways.

[Gen 1:26 KJV]
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

[Heb 1:3 KJV]
Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

=========================================================================

Adam was a VASTLY more elevated creation than the Calvinites opine.
They think that he was a foppish, stupid knuckle dragging fool.
Weak, pathetic, easily manipulated, a doormat for the Woman etc etc.
Yes, they have posted these types of descriptions. Sick.

The facts are that Adam SUCESSFULLY resisted Satan when 1/3 of mighty angels fell.
Adam was NOT DECIEVED by the most powerful and wisest created being in all of existence!

Before he fell? Adam would have had Einstein scratching his head and amused by his sheer effortless genius.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Sounds like more Calvinite bafflegab mischief to me.

Do tell. Why don't you explain why?

 

[Kroogz]

I am quite convicted that unfallen Adam COULD perceive BOTH her spiritual degradation and physical as well.

And it was truly devastating to behold. And Adam considered that it was HIS FAILING that was the reason for
the fall of the Woman. He was tasked with educating and protecting her.

BTW, unfallen Adam was truly glorious and magnificent. With abilities and intellect VASTLY greater than ours.
He was perfectly capable of RESISTING SATAN when the angels (including Michael) were not!

I agree. Based on Gods character and nature and How He deals with mankind throughout His word.....It was no surprise to them after eating the fruit(a fig IMO.) God most likely explained, in detail, what the specifics of 'death' entailed.

Adam was not deceived. And was a type of Christ. Adam eating the fruit......was an attempt to save her. And IMO was the hardest and most thought provoking decision a natural man has ever made.....He was not deceived.

 

[Genez]

Maybe satan never talked with Adam

He did.
Through a hand puppet.

Do you really think a serpent was created to speak and think like a human/angel?

 

[Cameron143]

God's definition of "death" is separation from Him.

You are making the HUGE mistake of thinking that Adams fall is the "future/eternal death".
This only happens after the GTW judgement in the lake of fire.

This is DEFINTELY not the case today, despite the inane ignorant ravings of the Calvinites.
We living souls are NOT created "eternally dead", already condemned.

And if we were already condemned at birth, Christ would have come in vain,
because it would have been too late as the FINAL JUDGEMENT WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN RENDERED!
And FINAL JUDGEMENT has NOT yet been rendered. It is yet future. Get it?

Christ came to give us RENEWED life, eternal life, abundant life, and reverse the curse.
This is definitely possible under the present state of circumstances of man.

Adam was separated, yes. But only by degrees. Not completely, not permanently.
Why? Because the Bible makes clear that Adam was a "special case". Thats why.
His sacrificial love being the crucial factor.

I mean God is certainly on speaking terms with mankind right?
Adam did not keel over after he ate the fruit right?
Adam was not cast immediately into the lake of fire right?
God was interacting with Adam and Eve and their progeny post fall right?
God has made covenants with men right?

=================================================================

And AGAIN, the clueless Calvinites got all of this "spiritually dead" business ALL WRONG man.
They get it all wrong I'm telling you.

Separation is only one way God defines death.

 

[Genez]

Which is what I said, and nothing more. Being separated from God is enough to cause a man to sin because there is nothing inside of a man that knows how to do God's will apart from a spirit in union with God

Born again Jews in the OT did not have such a union.

That is why they were required to be under Law, even though regenerated, and having a human spirit, which enabled them to know the things of God, but not able to live them like those who have the power of indwelling Holy Spirit can.

 

[Kroogz]

Poor John Calvin!
He never concocted TULIP, yet gets blamed for it.

Calvin had disciples who concocted TULIP after the death of Calvin.
The false doctrine was heralded in under the respected name of John Calvin.

Who's to blame?
Theodore Beza was the deep state of Calvin's ministry!

.......

I agree. However, in Calvin's institutes "tulip" is taught. Beza unscrambled the false theology and streamlined it for the suckers.