God's Elect: This Ends Any Debate
- Thread starter DavyP
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
God’s omnipotence means that He can do everything except “disown Himself” or not be God (2TM 2:13). It does NOT mean that God can perform logical absurdities, such as creating a rock too large for Him to move. Omnipotence or sovereignty also means that human volition has limits with regard to how it can contradict God’s will. God provides morally competent humans the ability to resist His intentional will and plan of salvation (POS) within limits, such as the time limit that will end with death, resurrection (the last miracle) and judgment (per HB 9:27)–called His permissive will.
God’s power is equivalent to His omniscience. Jeremiah wrote that “God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom.” (JR 10:12) Omniscience includes knowledge of people’s thoughts (PS 94:11, MT 12:25) and the foreknowledge of events (ACTS 2:23, RM 8:29, 11:2, 1PT 1:2). Some people think that God even knows what a person will be/do before that person exists (JR 1:5). If this view is correct, it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated. I find it simpler to think that God merely tweaks the river of history occasionally to keep if flowing in the direction He intends but allows the fish to swim as they wish. God allows eddies in the river of salvation.
God loves and wants to save everyone (1TM 2:3-4); Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (RM 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ). Second, God is just (2THS 1:6a, cf. RM 3:25-26 & 9:14, DT 32:4, PS 36:6, LK 11:42, RV 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (PS 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (JL 2:13, JN 3:16).
Even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (PR 3:12, IS 33:14-15 RV 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance. Of course, because God is loving and just, He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (JM 1:13-17, TIT 3:11, IS 45:19).
This realization should steer us away from the problematic opinion (a la Augustine via John Calvin) that God predestines most people for hell and lead us to affirm free will as a paradoxical truth (DT 30:19). This truth is paradoxical, because it affirms both that God is sovereign and that God chooses not to control moral thinking, because doing so would nullify human responsibility for sin, making the biblical revelation of salvation based on repentance irrelevant and absurd.
God’s power is equivalent to His omniscience. Jeremiah wrote that “God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom.” (JR 10:12) Omniscience includes knowledge of people’s thoughts (PS 94:11, MT 12:25) and the foreknowledge of events (ACTS 2:23, RM 8:29, 11:2, 1PT 1:2). Some people think that God even knows what a person will be/do before that person exists (JR 1:5). If this view is correct, it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated. I find it simpler to think that God merely tweaks the river of history occasionally to keep if flowing in the direction He intends but allows the fish to swim as they wish. God allows eddies in the river of salvation.
God loves and wants to save everyone (1TM 2:3-4); Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (RM 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ). Second, God is just (2THS 1:6a, cf. RM 3:25-26 & 9:14, DT 32:4, PS 36:6, LK 11:42, RV 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (PS 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (JL 2:13, JN 3:16).
Even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (PR 3:12, IS 33:14-15 RV 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance. Of course, because God is loving and just, He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (JM 1:13-17, TIT 3:11, IS 45:19).
This realization should steer us away from the problematic opinion (a la Augustine via John Calvin) that God predestines most people for hell and lead us to affirm free will as a paradoxical truth (DT 30:19). This truth is paradoxical, because it affirms both that God is sovereign and that God chooses not to control moral thinking, because doing so would nullify human responsibility for sin, making the biblical revelation of salvation based on repentance irrelevant and absurd.
The believer will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ to give an account for his works whether good or bad.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
-
1
- Show all
God says he predestined whom would be save.God wrote those names down in his book of life before the foundation of the world.
God said he is the darkness and theight , the evil and the good,he is all things.
Before going further in these type discussions some should study what God is defined as.
Or,grasp hold of reason for a moment. If God is the creator of all things that exist,seen and unseen, then all that exists,seen and unseen,is of and from God.
As he says.
Yet, there are people who mock that and insist it is false.
Which says they don't know how God is defined. Even in his own words.
God said he is the darkness and theight , the evil and the good,he is all things.
Before going further in these type discussions some should study what God is defined as.
Or,grasp hold of reason for a moment. If God is the creator of all things that exist,seen and unseen, then all that exists,seen and unseen,is of and from God.
As he says.
Yet, there are people who mock that and insist it is false.
Which says they don't know how God is defined. Even in his own words.
And we were chosen in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:4~~According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
His Eternal divine attributes Chose us, not His sovereignty......His righteousness.
Psa 9:8~~
He rules the world in righteousness and judges the peoples with equity.
Psa 98:9~~
let them sing before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples with equity.
Acts 17:31~~because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.
Tit 2:11~~
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Eph 1:4~~According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
His Eternal divine attributes Chose us, not His sovereignty......His righteousness.
Psa 9:8~~
He rules the world in righteousness and judges the peoples with equity.
Psa 98:9~~
let them sing before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples with equity.
Acts 17:31~~because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.
Tit 2:11~~
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
GW says a lot of things, and some of them are apparent contradictions that need harmonization, including this issue.
EPH 1:5 - The key to harmonization is to discern that "in him/Christ" means that God predestined His POS to save all who exercise their volition/faith to accept Christ as Lord/cooperate with His POS.
RM 8:30 - The key to harmonization is to discern that those God foreknew are those who exercise their volition/faith to love/accept Christ as Lord, and those who believe God predestined to become like Jesus as they learn GW and become more loving until death (v.28-29).
Another verse to keep in mind is JN 12:32, "I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw [call] all men [and women] to myself [to accept me as Messiah/the incarnate Lord."
EPH 1:5 - The key to harmonization is to discern that "in him/Christ" means that God predestined His POS to save all who exercise their volition/faith to accept Christ as Lord/cooperate with His POS.
RM 8:30 - The key to harmonization is to discern that those God foreknew are those who exercise their volition/faith to love/accept Christ as Lord, and those who believe God predestined to become like Jesus as they learn GW and become more loving until death (v.28-29).
Another verse to keep in mind is JN 12:32, "I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw [call] all men [and women] to myself [to accept me as Messiah/the incarnate Lord."