God's Elect: This Ends Any Debate

[GWH]

remember, OSAS may be a calvinist term, but eternal security is a God thing.

We do not persevere to the end. God keeps us until the end.

Not against our faith/will. God initiates; we cooperate--or not.

The doctrine of perseverance or LGW serves as a bridge from the kerygma (creed) to the didache (lifelong spiritual growth) or from spiritual birth to maturity, so it is logical to harmonize various biblical statements on this issue before proceeding to other didachaic topics. The passages that seem to support predestination may be harmonized with those supporting free will or perseverance as follows:

1. Romans 8:38-39 – “anything else” refers to powers other than one’s own will.

2. John 10:27-29 – being “unsnatchable” does not disallow a person from choosing to jump out of the “Father’s hand”.

3. Ephesians 1:11-14 – what is “predestined” is God’s plan to choose or elect anyone who desires to be “in him” or to satisfy GRFS. Thus, being “marked in him with a seal” does not abrogate moral free will (cf. 2PT 1:10f).

4. 1 John 2:19 – when synthesized with verse 24 must mean that those who repudiate their Faith do not eternally “belong”.

5. Psalm 135:6 – in light of “volitional verses” (such as DT 30:19 & MT 23:37) means that God “pleases” to permit limited free will.

6. Proverbs 21:1 – in order not to make God responsible for the sins cited in the rest of the chapter must mean that the “king’s heart” or will is choosing to cooperate with the Lord’s “hand” or directions.

 

[Mem]

I'm currently mourning one of my feral cats, the one I'd become closest to. There is no snatching up a feral cat, not without some degree of trickery. They have a hard time trusting anyone. I could only extend my hand toward her and let her come to me, or I risk losing any trust that I might have gained in the slow process of communicating my concern for her well-being. In the end, I know how much that she did love me because cats seek out the safest places they know of when they are at their most vulnerable.

Similarly, God did not 'make' me Him but first, I saw the possibility of His love for me, having been drawn by the hearing of it, and then He confirmed the reality to me when I dared to approach Him. There was no way that I'd have even ventured to if He'd only thrown rocks at me anymore than Sparrow would've come if I'd demanded it of her.

 

[Mem]

&
Of the three, she was my favorite, my elect because, in my mind, although she was free to roam anywhere that she wished, her fear of living without me was stronger than her fear of me. The other two still can't bring themselves to approach me, personally, they're just there for the potluck.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Not against our faith/will. God initiates; we cooperate--or not.

No one who truly understood the gospel. and truly understood and became a tax collector and was born by God would willingly deny he even existed and tuen to unbelief.

The doctrine of perseverance or LGW serves as a bridge from the kerygma (creed) to the didache (lifelong spiritual growth) or from spiritual birth to maturity, so it is logical to harmonize various biblical statements on this issue before proceeding to other didachaic topics. The passages that seem to support predestination may be harmonized with those supporting free will or perseverance as follows:

1. Romans 8:38-39 – “anything else” refers to powers other than one’s own will.

2. John 10:27-29 – being “unsnatchable” does not disallow a person from choosing to jump out of the “Father’s hand”.

3. Ephesians 1:11-14 – what is “predestined” is God’s plan to choose or elect anyone who desires to be “in him” or to satisfy GRFS. Thus, being “marked in him with a seal” does not abrogate moral free will (cf. 2PT 1:10f).

4. 1 John 2:19 – when synthesized with verse 24 must mean that those who repudiate their Faith do not eternally “belong”.

5. Psalm 135:6 – in light of “volitional verses” (such as DT 30:19 & MT 23:37) means that God “pleases” to permit limited free will.

6. Proverbs 21:1 – in order not to make God responsible for the sins cited in the rest of the chapter must mean that the “king’s heart” or will is choosing to cooperate with the Lord’s “hand” or directions.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Not against our faith/will. God initiates; we cooperate--or not.

No one who truly understood the gospel. and truly understood and became a tax collector and was born by God would willingly deny he even existed and tuen to unbelief.

The doctrine of perseverance or LGW serves as a bridge from the kerygma (creed) to the didache (lifelong spiritual growth) or from spiritual birth to maturity, so it is logical to harmonize various biblical statements on this issue before proceeding to other didachaic topics. The passages that seem to support predestination may be harmonized with those supporting free will or perseverance as follows:

1. Romans 8:38-39 – “anything else” refers to powers other than one’s own will.

2. John 10:27-29 – being “unsnatchable” does not disallow a person from choosing to jump out of the “Father’s hand”.

3. Ephesians 1:11-14 – what is “predestined” is God’s plan to choose or elect anyone who desires to be “in him” or to satisfy GRFS. Thus, being “marked in him with a seal” does not abrogate moral free will (cf. 2PT 1:10f).

4. 1 John 2:19 – when synthesized with verse 24 must mean that those who repudiate their Faith do not eternally “belong”.

5. Psalm 135:6 – in light of “volitional verses” (such as DT 30:19 & MT 23:37) means that God “pleases” to permit limited free will.

6. Proverbs 21:1 – in order not to make God responsible for the sins cited in the rest of the chapter must mean that the “king’s heart” or will is choosing to cooperate with the Lord’s “hand” or directions.

so we can overpower God.

ok..

so salvation is based on works. works of us staying in faith.. which takes our own power. No Again, If someone is truly born of God they would never leave.

John makes his clear in his epistle when he says these unbelievers left. but they were never of us, if they were of us they would never have left.

We do not persevere to the end.. God keeps us.. free will in not lost..

 

[MeowFlower]

Acts 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Your god isn't Sovereign?

Ours is.

 

[MeowFlower]

Please do not insult me, I understand quite well.

You can not claim you are not pumping your chest when you claim you were chosen and your neighbor was not.

Paul said we are saved by Grace period. But through faith not works, lest anyone should boast (He separates our saving faith from works, and claims those who are saved through faith are not of those who boast. it is those who try to be saved by works) )

When God comes and gives me his gospel. and says he wants to save me, Me, in faith, saying "Yes lord I trust you and I want you to apply your death to my soul", is not me saving myself. I do not know who came up with this idea. but it is not from God.

I'm sick of your ridiculous charge, pumping my chest. How young are you?

You can't accept what Jesus taught. End of discussion.

 

[MeowFlower]

Because I see what you posted and its not in scripture.

That's not true. You reveal your motives here when a scripture was posted, one of many in the Bible, and you falsely claim that passage doesn't exist.

 

[brightfame52]

That's not true. You reveal your motives here when a scripture was posted, one of many in the Bible, and you falsely claim that passage doesn't exist.

Yeah it is true

 

[GWH]

No one who truly understood the gospel. and truly understood and became a tax collector and was born by God would willingly deny he even existed and tuen to unbelief.



so we can overpower God.

ok..

so salvation is based on works. works of us staying in faith.. which takes our own power. No Again, If someone is truly born of God they would never leave.

John makes his clear in his epistle when he says these unbelievers left. but they were never of us, if they were of us they would never have left.

We do not persevere to the end.. God keeps us.. free will in not lost..

You seem to want to begin with 1JN 2:19&24, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us... As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father."

This obviously indicates that believers must persevere or else they will also go out from among the saved. IOW, IF you do NOT see or keep on believing, then you will NOT remain saved. The choice/will/faith is yours.

 

[MeowFlower]

Yeah it is true

No. As scripture proves.

You don't believe that. This doesn't change the fact the words of God are there. And skeptics like yourself don't see it.

Scripture tells Christians why that is too.

 

[John146]

Your god isn't Sovereign?

Ours is.

Not sovereign as in how the RCC John Calvin defined sovereign. Is God the supreme being over all things? Yes, but God does not determine or cause all things that take place. His word according to scripture will stand, and man nor Satan can stop it from coming to pass as stated in scripture.

 

[MeowFlower]

Not sovereign as in how the RCC John Calvin defined sovereign. Is God the supreme being over all things? Yes, but God does not determine or cause all things that take place. His word according to scripture will stand, and man nor Satan can stop it from coming to pass as stated in scripture.

God's Sovereignty predates the RCC and Calvinism.

 

[GWH]

God's Sovereignty predates the RCC and Calvinism.

So you believe God causes evil and that human accountability/free will is a delusion?

 

[MeowFlower]

So you believe God causes evil and that human accountability/free will is a delusion?

Isaiah 45.

Our will? If God's will is sovereign as he tells us repeatedly in his own words?

 

[MeowFlower]

So you believe God causes evil and that human accountability/free will is a delusion?

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Yeshayah 45:7

 

[brightfame52]

No. As scripture proves.

You don't believe that. This doesn't change the fact the words of God are there. And skeptics like yourself don't see it.

Scripture tells Christians why that is too.

No its true

 

[John146]

Isaiah 45.

Our will? If God's will is sovereign as he tells us repeatedly in his own words?

If so, all accountability is off of us. Insane.

 

[MeowFlower]

If so, all accountability is off of us. Insane.

There's scripture in the Old Testament that tells us the sins of the father do not pass to the sons. Everyone is responsible for their own sins.

Then there are verses that tell us about generational sin.
https://www.openbible.info/topics/generational_sin


Sin entered this world by one man. Only because God planted a tree and made it off limits. His enemy entered Eden.

God is Sovereign and has Dominion.

Sin did not have to enter his creation.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You seem to want to begin with 1JN 2:19&24, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us... As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father."

This obviously indicates that believers must persevere or else they will also go out from among the saved. IOW, IF you do NOT see or keep on believing, then you will NOT remain saved. The choice/will/faith is yours.

Um no

It says they were antichrist.. and they did nto lose salvation they never had it

You also skipped 2 verses

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

differentiating you from them.

All the verse you showed was that if you have true faith, you have the annointing, if you fall into an antichrist. Well you were never of us..

why would you want to earn salvation