I was wondering who believes you can get unsaved.
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Well that’s no crime brother lol but I was wondering what you thought of Paul’s teaching not “ my thinking “
“But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. ( it seems like they are doing something that’s storing up wrath for themselves )
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil:
first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:5-11 NIV
my inquiry was wouod you believe Paul’s version of judgement rather than the one you explained earlier not being about eternal life and wrath ? My thinking lol I understand why you wouldn’t grasp that I’m a bit of a nut. But I was just curious how your version of judgement met with Paul’s version ?
“But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. ( it seems like they are doing something that’s storing up wrath for themselves )
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil:
first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:5-11 NIV
my inquiry was wouod you believe Paul’s version of judgement rather than the one you explained earlier not being about eternal life and wrath ? My thinking lol I understand why you wouldn’t grasp that I’m a bit of a nut. But I was just curious how your version of judgement met with Paul’s version ?
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The lost sheep are the LOST, not the saved. The parodical son? Really? You know that parable was to the Pharisees and the older brother passing judgement on the younger while the Father forgave him was the main point right? The younger son was almost a parody of the worst a son could ever be to make a point. It wasn't so we could all relate to the bad son who is forgiven, it was for the Pharisees to be warned that there judgement of Jesus and others wasn't righteous or right. It also ends never saying if the older brother was saved or not. A warning for them passing unrighteous judgment, not losing salvation. Sorry only have time for the one now.[/QUOTE]
No,the goats are the unsaved.
I didn't state anything about the Prodigal. The system misquoted the post I was responding to. This is not my writing:"Too many scriptures, and parables (Lost sheep Luke 15), prodigal son) and more that teach a Child of God can be lost for that doctrine to be 100% truth."
Scroll up to post 430 and you'll see the quote closing block beneath the post I was quoting.
No,the goats are the unsaved.
I didn't state anything about the Prodigal. The system misquoted the post I was responding to. This is not my writing:"Too many scriptures, and parables (Lost sheep Luke 15), prodigal son) and more that teach a Child of God can be lost for that doctrine to be 100% truth."
Scroll up to post 430 and you'll see the quote closing block beneath the post I was quoting.
pauls wrote Roman’s 6-8 trying to claim single verses misses it paul didn’t just say there’s no condemnation in Christ what he said is this
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,( that’s where you stopped )
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
Romans 8:1 KJV
now before we create confusion explaining what the flesh works and spirit works are let’s let Paul tell us
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:19-24 KJV
do you see the condition that we can’t keep following the flesh works of sin ? And need to start bearing fruit by walking after the spirit and not the flesh ? That’s an instruction not saying “ anyone who says I believe can never “ lose salvation “ we have to read chapters not isolate verses to understand if we keep serving sin we’re going to perish
We need to do this
“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:12-13
Why is Paul telling them they are debters in how they now live and if they keep following the flesh they’ll die ? But if they crucify the flesh by the spirit they’ll live ? He’s saying it because of the things Jesus taught
The law of the spirit of life is the word of Christ the law giver
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
his word sets us free of condemnation if we don’t reject it it has living power if we accept it and believe in our hearts
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, ( to believers in him ) If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32
the language you find in the epistle is coming from his words in the gospel . Brother try reading the epistle of say ….Galatians but when you get to chapter 5 keep believing it’s true nd is coming from the earlier things to the same people you’ll find a lot of new things to chew on
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,( that’s where you stopped )
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
Romans 8:1 KJV
now before we create confusion explaining what the flesh works and spirit works are let’s let Paul tell us
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:19-24 KJV
do you see the condition that we can’t keep following the flesh works of sin ? And need to start bearing fruit by walking after the spirit and not the flesh ? That’s an instruction not saying “ anyone who says I believe can never “ lose salvation “ we have to read chapters not isolate verses to understand if we keep serving sin we’re going to perish
We need to do this
“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:12-13
Why is Paul telling them they are debters in how they now live and if they keep following the flesh they’ll die ? But if they crucify the flesh by the spirit they’ll live ? He’s saying it because of the things Jesus taught
The law of the spirit of life is the word of Christ the law giver
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
his word sets us free of condemnation if we don’t reject it it has living power if we accept it and believe in our hearts
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, ( to believers in him ) If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32
the language you find in the epistle is coming from his words in the gospel . Brother try reading the epistle of say ….Galatians but when you get to chapter 5 keep believing it’s true nd is coming from the earlier things to the same people you’ll find a lot of new things to chew on
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If they are already judges why is Paul teaching them repeatedly we all have to be judged lol ? The cross isn’t about man’s judgement the teachkngs of Jesus and his disciples about judgement wre about judgement it’s a clear and present doctrine in scripture ot to new
if we’re judged at the cross why teach this to believers in the church ?
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
doesnt that end the idea that we were “ judged by the cross “? Remember all this stuff
“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
Acts 17:30-31
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
Acts 10:42 KJV
Again brother look closely here
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? ( judge not lest ye be judged )
or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:10-12
Do you see the harmony ? It’s been like that always every teaching is the same
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 KJV
pauls just telling them the same things like Jesus and John and Peter taught them also each si left we all argue about is perfectly well explained but it’s a matter of if we are hard and have no room for his word because we already know better.
the best thing I ever learned from bi local study is I didn’t know what I thought before I started hearing what he said . I used to make the same arguments some of you do but someone asked me why the scriptures told a totally different story
Brother I wish there was no accountability and wish e wry one ever born eas going to be saved , I wish damnation was a lie I wish we could just say we’re saved the end but the bible tells us that’s going to destroy us to believe what’s not actually true but to acknolwedge the truth ? That brings repentance from God
This is the actual situation
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26 KJV
that’s terrible a world of people captive to do satans Will but don’t even realize it until they hear the truth and believe
if we’re judged at the cross why teach this to believers in the church ?
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
doesnt that end the idea that we were “ judged by the cross “? Remember all this stuff
“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
Acts 17:30-31
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
Acts 10:42 KJV
Again brother look closely here
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? ( judge not lest ye be judged )
or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:10-12
Do you see the harmony ? It’s been like that always every teaching is the same
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 KJV
pauls just telling them the same things like Jesus and John and Peter taught them also each si left we all argue about is perfectly well explained but it’s a matter of if we are hard and have no room for his word because we already know better.
the best thing I ever learned from bi local study is I didn’t know what I thought before I started hearing what he said . I used to make the same arguments some of you do but someone asked me why the scriptures told a totally different story
Brother I wish there was no accountability and wish e wry one ever born eas going to be saved , I wish damnation was a lie I wish we could just say we’re saved the end but the bible tells us that’s going to destroy us to believe what’s not actually true but to acknolwedge the truth ? That brings repentance from God
This is the actual situation
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26 KJV
that’s terrible a world of people captive to do satans Will but don’t even realize it until they hear the truth and believe
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Do I Believe “Christian’s “ who reject Gods word become new ? Not at all I think believers of the gospel become new daily as they follow the lord and listen to his word
Thats what makes them new …hearing true lords word and not rejecting it . From death to life ? If they accept his word yes that’s what he said but it’s predicated on accepting what he said brother it always is
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
That’s what Paul’s referencing here
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free
from the law of sin and death.”
Romans 8:1-2
I don’t think anyone’s saved rejecting what God said about salvstion brother I believe we’re saved by accepting it letting it be true
arhats what changes our mind and heart Renews our knowledge
As we listen to the gospel this happens
“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
Romans 12:2 KJV
We have to let his thoughts be true and ours that reject them false conform to his mind and understanding expressed in the gospel that’s the understanding God gave us to know him
You see being made new requires our minds to be renewed our understanding of God , ourselves , the world ect
“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
Colossians 3:9-10 KJV
when jesus is teaching something and we aren’t agreeing it’s because our thinking is wrong brother we need to let him correct us in the gospel we’re called to believe ….
we don’t just magically change we hear and believe the truth in the gospel and it changes our mind our beliefs about God life ourselves salvstion ect and that’s what guides and leads us the living understanding he gave to know him the true and everlasting God
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
1 John 5:20 KJV
we have to hear and believe the gospel there’s no other path no other way the power of God to save us to change us from darkness to light is the gospel itself we only have to accept it then we shall be saved when he comes
Thats what makes them new …hearing true lords word and not rejecting it . From death to life ? If they accept his word yes that’s what he said but it’s predicated on accepting what he said brother it always is
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
That’s what Paul’s referencing here
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free
from the law of sin and death.”
Romans 8:1-2
I don’t think anyone’s saved rejecting what God said about salvstion brother I believe we’re saved by accepting it letting it be true
arhats what changes our mind and heart Renews our knowledge
As we listen to the gospel this happens
“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
Romans 12:2 KJV
We have to let his thoughts be true and ours that reject them false conform to his mind and understanding expressed in the gospel that’s the understanding God gave us to know him
You see being made new requires our minds to be renewed our understanding of God , ourselves , the world ect
“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
Colossians 3:9-10 KJV
when jesus is teaching something and we aren’t agreeing it’s because our thinking is wrong brother we need to let him correct us in the gospel we’re called to believe ….
we don’t just magically change we hear and believe the truth in the gospel and it changes our mind our beliefs about God life ourselves salvstion ect and that’s what guides and leads us the living understanding he gave to know him the true and everlasting God
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
1 John 5:20 KJV
we have to hear and believe the gospel there’s no other path no other way the power of God to save us to change us from darkness to light is the gospel itself we only have to accept it then we shall be saved when he comes
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“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. …..But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
1 Peter 1:22-23, 25 KJV
is this the born from above your referring to ?
“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
Mark 13:31 KJV
We have to accept the lords word that’s how he changes us , makes us new
1 Peter 1:22-23, 25 KJV
is this the born from above your referring to ?
“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
Mark 13:31 KJV
We have to accept the lords word that’s how he changes us , makes us new
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It's the same question posed a different way. When someone is saved, they are born from above. They become a new creation. They are passed from death to life, become a partaker of the divine nature, and are no longer under condemnation.
It is because of the work of God in and on behalf of the Christian that all the things you say are required of him transpire. Christ takes full responsibility for His people as a Shepherd cares for his flock.
It is because of the work of God in and on behalf of the Christian that all the things you say are required of him transpire. Christ takes full responsibility for His people as a Shepherd cares for his flock.
“Christ takes full responsibility for His people as a Shepherd cares for his flock”
yeah …. I mean his sheep actually hear him believe and follow him though is the thing lol
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
John 10:27 KJV
sheep follow the shepherd he doesn’t have them all on leashes they know he’s thoer safety and protector he would never lead them astray they trust him they follow where he leads they don’t reject him refuse to hear him and follow
he doesn’t drag them or force them to follow tbey follow him because they believe he’s the shepherd and tells the truth leads them home ect
It’s not arbitrary God doesn’t do it apart from our own free Will he’s spoken salvstion then he sent out all who listened to preach it
its a matter of if we accept the truth or reject it truth saves lies kill since Eden Gods word would have kept them alive and blessed the opposite word coming after was intended to kill
same with false doctrine it can take a believer and lead them to destruction but truth never will
yeah …. I mean his sheep actually hear him believe and follow him though is the thing lol
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
John 10:27 KJV
sheep follow the shepherd he doesn’t have them all on leashes they know he’s thoer safety and protector he would never lead them astray they trust him they follow where he leads they don’t reject him refuse to hear him and follow
he doesn’t drag them or force them to follow tbey follow him because they believe he’s the shepherd and tells the truth leads them home ect
It’s not arbitrary God doesn’t do it apart from our own free Will he’s spoken salvstion then he sent out all who listened to preach it
its a matter of if we accept the truth or reject it truth saves lies kill since Eden Gods word would have kept them alive and blessed the opposite word coming after was intended to kill
same with false doctrine it can take a believer and lead them to destruction but truth never will
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This is true. Even though I'm fully submitted to the Lord, to the Holy Spirit right now and living in obedience to Him in His power, God hasn't taken my free will away. I can walk away from Him even now if I still choose to. But I don't want to because I freely choose to commit myself to this fellowship. Like people do with all their relationships -that's why divorce and broken friendships still exist among Christians - God did not induce them - but Christians of their own accord broke those relationships.
This is the kind of fellowship the Lord wants - someone who is freely willing to stay with Him and live His way, not some robot who has no choice but to stay.
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So you're going to ignore all those warnings in the Bible that are there for you? 
Be careful. What's popular isn't always right. You were asking people what is the truth, but you should be asking God instead. Love God's truth even when it isn't popular (which is most of the time) - so you won't stray from Him and know how He wants you to grow up in Him.
Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
You said that you struggle in certain areas of your life, but OSAS lulls you into a false sense of security. I know because I used to believe it too. That belief keeps you from growing in Christ. You might end up "knowing" a lot of Christian stuff, but be unable to live it out as God wants us to. A lot of these people who believe in it aren't really submitted to God so they live their lives without His power. I know you have admitted to certain struggles so if you want to overcome them and be more than a conqueror, than don't lean on OSAS because there is no power in that.
Please ask God to help you with all the passages that have been pointed out to you that the OSAS people are twisting and dismissing as not important or relevant to you - they actually are. I will pray for you as well that God Himself will give you understanding of all those verses. Please don't end up like these people who only have a form of godliness without the power.
I'm not going to say anymore, because the OSAS folks will swarm in like locusts and overwhelm with all their false teaching. So I will pray for you because I know prayer is a more powerful influence. I also call on all the people who have been contending against OSAS here to pray for our brother as well - he is fairly young in the Lord and we need to pray for his protection from this false teaching, so that he grows in understanding and maturity and be able to overcome and be a conqueror in every area of his life. In Jesus name I pray, Amen.
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Be careful. What's popular isn't always right. You were asking people what is the truth, but you should be asking God instead. Love God's truth even when it isn't popular (which is most of the time) - so you won't stray from Him and know how He wants you to grow up in Him.
Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
You said that you struggle in certain areas of your life, but OSAS lulls you into a false sense of security. I know because I used to believe it too. That belief keeps you from growing in Christ. You might end up "knowing" a lot of Christian stuff, but be unable to live it out as God wants us to. A lot of these people who believe in it aren't really submitted to God so they live their lives without His power. I know you have admitted to certain struggles so if you want to overcome them and be more than a conqueror, than don't lean on OSAS because there is no power in that.
Please ask God to help you with all the passages that have been pointed out to you that the OSAS people are twisting and dismissing as not important or relevant to you - they actually are. I will pray for you as well that God Himself will give you understanding of all those verses. Please don't end up like these people who only have a form of godliness without the power.
I'm not going to say anymore, because the OSAS folks will swarm in like locusts and overwhelm with all their false teaching. So I will pray for you because I know prayer is a more powerful influence. I also call on all the people who have been contending against OSAS here to pray for our brother as well - he is fairly young in the Lord and we need to pray for his protection from this false teaching, so that he grows in understanding and maturity and be able to overcome and be a conqueror in every area of his life. In Jesus name I pray, Amen.
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you are all going on and on about how wrong my idea is, and now that I agree you are trashing at me for that.
HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY PASTOR.
not everyone uses unfounded claims.
osas. blah blah blah. if you use an aronym, explain.
yeah stop selectively listening to me.
you say you read some of my posts, read all of them before assuming.
i used to "know" everything christian, but not have it, but that changed.
and if you say otherwise, I am calling you a catholic.
what did i say i have been told is not relevant?
of course, prayer is among the best thnngs to do for instruction.
now you may shut up. I am not getting back on this thread.
you are twisting my words and ignoring what i am saying and listening selectively instead.
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alright. i looked it up. sorry.
but i have to wonder, how will believing that make my struggles worse?
besides the fact that it could cause me to feel that i can do anything no problemo?
i am just following scripture. if i feel this way, but scriptue says that, i go scripture.
oh sheesh. also how would i learn until i die and go to hell?
convictions are worth nothing to me. convictions are the mormon truth. the Bible is the christian truth.
but i have to wonder, how will believing that make my struggles worse?
besides the fact that it could cause me to feel that i can do anything no problemo?
i am just following scripture. if i feel this way, but scriptue says that, i go scripture.
oh sheesh. also how would i learn until i die and go to hell?
convictions are worth nothing to me. convictions are the mormon truth. the Bible is the christian truth.