Preparation for the tribulation.
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History itself debunks the historicist view ( preterist)
Nowhere has the Antichrist existed
Nowhere has there been a worldwide mark.
Nowhere has 1/3 of the planet population been destroyed.
Nowhere has there been flying scorpions.
Nor hailstones of fire, or a mountain thrown into the sea.
Historicist view is a huge rabbit trail
Nowhere has the Antichrist existed
Nowhere has there been a worldwide mark.
Nowhere has 1/3 of the planet population been destroyed.
Nowhere has there been flying scorpions.
Nor hailstones of fire, or a mountain thrown into the sea.
Historicist view is a huge rabbit trail
The tribulation,Or the Great Tribulation ,is from what I can see, something like a plow that is being used to prepare the Jewish people for Revelation 14, which is the Gathering of the Jews.
The last part of the Great Tribulation is tremendous wrath poured out from heaven and I believe it's God's heart and desire that men would repent and turn to him.
over in 1st Peter chapter 4 it talks about why Trials come into our life and what they should produce in our life as far as drawing us closer to God.
(participating in the sufferings of Christ.)
So , in most of Revelation, you see tremendous trouble and judgments coming on the Earth, and then tremendous judgments and trouble coming on the inhabitants of Earth.
The Bible talks about Jerusalem being trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is completed.
I believe that the pre-tribulation Rapture is just that.
it's the times of the Gentiles ending and so God turns his attention to his Covenant people the jews.
And that to me sums up revelation.
it's the two wives.
The father and his Covenant wife the Jewish people , and Jesus with his Covenant people ,the bride of Christ.
I 100% believe that if we don't understand the foundation, the basis, and God's purposes of the Book of Revelation, and what's really happening ,we never will understand what's going on.
For example without reading the book of Ruth, and understanding the typology in the Book of Ruth, we can never understand Revelation 5.
Because Revelation 5 is in fact the kinsman redeemer depicted in the Book of Ruth.
The last part of the Great Tribulation is tremendous wrath poured out from heaven and I believe it's God's heart and desire that men would repent and turn to him.
over in 1st Peter chapter 4 it talks about why Trials come into our life and what they should produce in our life as far as drawing us closer to God.
(participating in the sufferings of Christ.)
So , in most of Revelation, you see tremendous trouble and judgments coming on the Earth, and then tremendous judgments and trouble coming on the inhabitants of Earth.
The Bible talks about Jerusalem being trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is completed.
I believe that the pre-tribulation Rapture is just that.
it's the times of the Gentiles ending and so God turns his attention to his Covenant people the jews.
And that to me sums up revelation.
it's the two wives.
The father and his Covenant wife the Jewish people , and Jesus with his Covenant people ,the bride of Christ.
I 100% believe that if we don't understand the foundation, the basis, and God's purposes of the Book of Revelation, and what's really happening ,we never will understand what's going on.
For example without reading the book of Ruth, and understanding the typology in the Book of Ruth, we can never understand Revelation 5.
Because Revelation 5 is in fact the kinsman redeemer depicted in the Book of Ruth.
Right (but of course, this wasn't the instance of the "snatch" that pertains to "the corporate Church which is His body" which the text of 1Th4:17 specifically speaks to);
1Th4:17 also is not a verse to be understood apart from its context--in other words, IF 1Th4:17 had words surrounding it that tell us that we (the Church which is His body) will be "snatched" FROM one location on the earth TO another location on the earth, LIKE PHILIP WAS, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, right?
But its surrounding CONTEXT does have words telling us the "WHERE" of our corporate "snatch"...
--first stop: "TO the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR"
--and next stop (per 3:13) "in the presence [G1715] of the God and Father of us, in the parousia/presence [/coming] of our Lord Jesus Christ with [G3326 - accompanied-with] all His saints"
(that is FURTHER ON UP, higher... TO "in the presence of the God and Father of us")
[2Th2:1 is another verse speaking of the Subject of our rapture / snatch event]
As to your comments on 1 John 3:2 ^ , notice the SAME Greek word that's used twice in 1Jn3:2 is also used twice in the following verse (which verse supplies a bit more info)... G5319 (2x in each of the following verses):
"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear [G5319], then shall ye also appear [phanerōthēsesthe - G5319] with [G4862 - UNIONed-with] him in glory." - Colossians 3:4
(addressed to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... "WHEN" He shall appear, [the Church which is His body] "YE shall also appear UNIONed-with Him in glory" ["appear" where and to whom?? another text, elsewhere, answers this decisively... but that's a conversation for another day... This is enough for now])
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/col/3/4/ss1/t_conc_1110004 [G5319 - 2x]
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/3/2/t_conc_1162002 [G5319 - 2x]
I hope you can see my point, here ^ ... that the Colossians 3:4 verse elaborates further beyond what 1Jn3:2 states simply.
Great conversation, thank you for engaging. I'm enjoying the thought-provoking interaction.
1Th4:17 also is not a verse to be understood apart from its context--in other words, IF 1Th4:17 had words surrounding it that tell us that we (the Church which is His body) will be "snatched" FROM one location on the earth TO another location on the earth, LIKE PHILIP WAS, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, right?
But its surrounding CONTEXT does have words telling us the "WHERE" of our corporate "snatch"...
--first stop: "TO the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR"
--and next stop (per 3:13) "in the presence [G1715] of the God and Father of us, in the parousia/presence [/coming] of our Lord Jesus Christ with [G3326 - accompanied-with] all His saints"
(that is FURTHER ON UP, higher... TO "in the presence of the God and Father of us")
[2Th2:1 is another verse speaking of the Subject of our rapture / snatch event]
As to your comments on 1 John 3:2 ^ , notice the SAME Greek word that's used twice in 1Jn3:2 is also used twice in the following verse (which verse supplies a bit more info)... G5319 (2x in each of the following verses):
"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear [G5319], then shall ye also appear [phanerōthēsesthe - G5319] with [G4862 - UNIONed-with] him in glory." - Colossians 3:4
(addressed to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... "WHEN" He shall appear, [the Church which is His body] "YE shall also appear UNIONed-with Him in glory" ["appear" where and to whom?? another text, elsewhere, answers this decisively... but that's a conversation for another day... This is enough for now])
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/col/3/4/ss1/t_conc_1110004 [G5319 - 2x]
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/3/2/t_conc_1162002 [G5319 - 2x]
I hope you can see my point, here ^ ... that the Colossians 3:4 verse elaborates further beyond what 1Jn3:2 states simply.
Great conversation, thank you for engaging. I'm enjoying the thought-provoking interaction.
Uh , no.
I don't EXPECT you to do anything but disagree.
That is Your assumption.
But yes I am accurate in what Jesus says.
I do appeal to Jesus authority and I Can confidently do so.
So yes there is assumptions and appeals in my posts and yours.
I base mine on the Bible.
What your assumption was in your post proved you need a better starting place besides just framing me in your intellectual box.
I don't EXPECT you to do anything but disagree.
That is Your assumption.
But yes I am accurate in what Jesus says.
I do appeal to Jesus authority and I Can confidently do so.
So yes there is assumptions and appeals in my posts and yours.
I base mine on the Bible.
What your assumption was in your post proved you need a better starting place besides just framing me in your intellectual box.
First part right: all will go through the trib.
Second part incorrect: the Beast will not arise until the Abyss is opened (Rev. 11:7; 17:8). The Abyss is not opened until the 5th Trumpet (Rev. 9). Whereas the elect will ascend at the 6th Seal, and so the "great multitude which no one could number," the "ones coming out of the Great Tribulation," are therefore seen "standing before the throne" of God in heaven before the 7th Seal is even opened. Rev. 7:9, 14, 8:1
86. Pre-Wrath Doctrine in a Nutshell https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2924-pre-wrath-doctrine-in-a-nutshell/
Second part incorrect: the Beast will not arise until the Abyss is opened (Rev. 11:7; 17:8). The Abyss is not opened until the 5th Trumpet (Rev. 9). Whereas the elect will ascend at the 6th Seal, and so the "great multitude which no one could number," the "ones coming out of the Great Tribulation," are therefore seen "standing before the throne" of God in heaven before the 7th Seal is even opened. Rev. 7:9, 14, 8:1
86. Pre-Wrath Doctrine in a Nutshell https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2924-pre-wrath-doctrine-in-a-nutshell/
