What Changed?
- Thread starter BillyBob
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Those who are setting their minds on the flesh (whether Christians or not) cannot please God. Both Christians and non-Christians have spirits and can set their minds at times on spiritual things that their spirit is sensitive to. You are confusing "unregenerate" with "carnal". Unregenerate means "does not have the Spirit of God". Carnal means "has their mind set on the flesh (i.e. in instinctive fight or flight mode)".
Here is the verse:
1 John 5:13
New International Version
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1. This verse does not even mention the Book of Life.
2. The verse is not written as a personal letter such as Philemon. Hence no one can claim that John was speaking directly to a certain individual or individuals.
3. The verse is speaking to Christians in general but not affirming which individuals are Christians.
4. Using your logic, anyone can "assert" that their name is written in the Book of Life, by simply claiming you are part of the group that John is writing to.
Simply put, John is affirming that those who hold firm to the Christian faith will be saved but he is most certainly not guaranteeing an individual can know that they are holding firm to the Christian faith.
Remember, where false assurance exist true assurance cannot. Matthew 7:22
1 John 5:13
New International Version
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1. This verse does not even mention the Book of Life.
2. The verse is not written as a personal letter such as Philemon. Hence no one can claim that John was speaking directly to a certain individual or individuals.
3. The verse is speaking to Christians in general but not affirming which individuals are Christians.
4. Using your logic, anyone can "assert" that their name is written in the Book of Life, by simply claiming you are part of the group that John is writing to.
Simply put, John is affirming that those who hold firm to the Christian faith will be saved but he is most certainly not guaranteeing an individual can know that they are holding firm to the Christian faith.
Remember, where false assurance exist true assurance cannot. Matthew 7:22
You obviously don't know this assurance, and that's sad. And yet this is one of the major themes in all he writes:
John 3:16...whosoever believes in Him...shall have eternal life...
John 17:3...and this is eternal life...
John 20:31...these are written...that you might believe...and believing...have life...
1 John 5:13...that ye may know the ye have eternal life...
It's kind of John's thing. He wants people to get saved, and be assured of it.
John 3:16...whosoever believes in Him...shall have eternal life...
John 17:3...and this is eternal life...
John 20:31...these are written...that you might believe...and believing...have life...
1 John 5:13...that ye may know the ye have eternal life...
It's kind of John's thing. He wants people to get saved, and be assured of it.
It seems you have a theology based on generalities.
Nothing you have written can negate Matthew 7:22.
According to your reasoning if someone asserts that they are in the Book of Life then they must be. Am I correct?
What is sad is that your ditch is so deep you can not fathom the possibility of false assurance.
This may be your eternal undoing.
it is unwise to insist that you cannot be wrong.
Where false assurance exist, true assurance cannot.
Nothing you have written can negate Matthew 7:22.
According to your reasoning if someone asserts that they are in the Book of Life then they must be. Am I correct?
What is sad is that your ditch is so deep you can not fathom the possibility of false assurance.
This may be your eternal undoing.
it is unwise to insist that you cannot be wrong.
Where false assurance exist, true assurance cannot.
No I don't believe because someone believes they have eternal life that their name is in the book of life. But all those who truly possess eternal life can be assured that their name is written there.
And you live far below what Christ has gained for and offers His people. Your answers reveal that there is more to a relationship with Christ than you have experienced. Perhaps just consider this and ask God to provide it to you.
And you live far below what Christ has gained for and offers His people. Your answers reveal that there is more to a relationship with Christ than you have experienced. Perhaps just consider this and ask God to provide it to you.
The Jews who were in bondage to Pharaoh in Egypt were totally under his control -- UNTIL God broke them out of prison!
Also, your analogy fails because no one can break out of or change their own nature. We humans have zero power to change our nature in order to become something we are not. (See Law of Identity and scripture.) The unregenerate are enslaved to their sinful nature, whereas the redeemed, by God's power, have BECOME something new -- a new creation whereby we are now slaves of righteousness.
Also, your analogy fails because no one can break out of or change their own nature. We humans have zero power to change our nature in order to become something we are not. (See Law of Identity and scripture.) The unregenerate are enslaved to their sinful nature, whereas the redeemed, by God's power, have BECOME something new -- a new creation whereby we are now slaves of righteousness.
Of course "those who truly possess eternal life" have eternal life because their name is written in the Book of Life.
This is a meaningless word salad.
You are simply asserting or claiming a relationship based on your own understanding. Our experiences do not prove a relationship exist.
In other words, your "relationship" may be one sided.
And perhaps you should consider honestly reading the scriptures without filtering them through your sensibilities.
This is a meaningless word salad.
You are simply asserting or claiming a relationship based on your own understanding. Our experiences do not prove a relationship exist.
In other words, your "relationship" may be one sided.
And perhaps you should consider honestly reading the scriptures without filtering them through your sensibilities.
Re 1 John -- John addresses his original audience (primarily Jewish believers if you read the epistle carefully) as "dear children" (2:1, 18, 28, etc.) and "dear friends" (2:7), which are terms of endearment. John was clearly writing to fellow believers who had received the anointing from the Son (2:26.27). Also, they are called the "children of God" whom God loves greatly (3:1).
Re Mat 7:22, these are professing believers who never had genuine faith in Christ. Their faith was altogether spurious. We can know this for certain because Christ said, "I NEVER knew you", which stands in sharp contrast to God's elect who He knew in eternity (Rom 8:29; 11:2). (Also see the Parable of the Four Soils for different types of believers.) This is one of the most sobering and alarming texts in all scripture; for it speaks to the depth of the self-deception that resided in these people's hearts (cf. Jer 17:9). They truly believed they were saved, but they were not. They most likely believed some perverted version of the gospel and ran with it, thinking they were good to go. They were as self-deceived as the church in Laodicea who thought much too highly of themselves (Rev 3:14-21).
Philemon and his slave Onesimus were both Christians and so Paul stepped in intervene between the two.
Re Mat 7:22, these are professing believers who never had genuine faith in Christ. Their faith was altogether spurious. We can know this for certain because Christ said, "I NEVER knew you", which stands in sharp contrast to God's elect who He knew in eternity (Rom 8:29; 11:2). (Also see the Parable of the Four Soils for different types of believers.) This is one of the most sobering and alarming texts in all scripture; for it speaks to the depth of the self-deception that resided in these people's hearts (cf. Jer 17:9). They truly believed they were saved, but they were not. They most likely believed some perverted version of the gospel and ran with it, thinking they were good to go. They were as self-deceived as the church in Laodicea who thought much too highly of themselves (Rev 3:14-21).
Philemon and his slave Onesimus were both Christians and so Paul stepped in intervene between the two.
When the things in scripture become your experience, that is the confirmation. I'm not having experiences and fitting them within scripture. But what God does reveal in scripture is to be our experience. That is the essence of eternal life and knowing God.
If these were indeed your experiences, you wouldn't resist, but ask God for an even deeper and more intimate knowledge of Him. It doesn't mean you aren't saved, but it certainly suggests that there is more to eternal life than has been discovered to you.
On the off chance I'm right, ask God to find out.
If these were indeed your experiences, you wouldn't resist, but ask God for an even deeper and more intimate knowledge of Him. It doesn't mean you aren't saved, but it certainly suggests that there is more to eternal life than has been discovered to you.
On the off chance I'm right, ask God to find out.
But the difference between the Christian and non-Christians is that Christ will not lose any of the sheep God has given them.. God will reign in his wandering sheep through his Good Shepherd. But Christ doesn't do that for the unregenerate non-elect.
Also, the Spirit that Paul talks about in Romans in not the human spirit but the Holy Spirit. Also, carnality is a mark of the unregenerate, whereas that is not the case with true Christians. Christians may stumble for a season but only until Christ brings them back to the sheepfold.
Also, the Spirit that Paul talks about in Romans in not the human spirit but the Holy Spirit. Also, carnality is a mark of the unregenerate, whereas that is not the case with true Christians. Christians may stumble for a season but only until Christ brings them back to the sheepfold.
Slaves and prisoners can plan escapes in their minds, whether their masters and jailors want them to or not. Prisoners and slaves can refuse to eat non-kosher foods whether their captors want them to refuse the foods or not. Masters and jailors do not wield absolute control over every facet of their slaves and prisoners. You have unrealistic concepts of slavery and imprisonment.
Oh yes...slaves and prisoners have "lots of freedom" within their very restricted confines. 
Prisoners are also free to bunk out in their cell when they want. They're also free to pace back 'n' forth in their cell when they want. They're also free lay on the concrete floor to do exercises when they want. But notwithstanding the rare exceptions of prison escapes, they lack the ability to break out of their prison. Do you think the ancient Israelites in Egypt could have just rebelled against Pharaoh and walked out of Egypt on their own without any divine intervention?
Prisoners are also free to bunk out in their cell when they want. They're also free to pace back 'n' forth in their cell when they want. They're also free lay on the concrete floor to do exercises when they want. But notwithstanding the rare exceptions of prison escapes, they lack the ability to break out of their prison. Do you think the ancient Israelites in Egypt could have just rebelled against Pharaoh and walked out of Egypt on their own without any divine intervention?