The word of God is not a secret code that needs unlocked.
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We can discuss the different Greek words if you like. Is your interpretation based on how Greek people understand it or have understood it through history? Or are you going lone wolf and making up your own definitions on the Greek here? Are you the only unofficial scholar to discover this? Is there a Bible that even has this reading that only you or select few know about?
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“For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.”
And Joseph made haste; for his bowels did yearn upon his brother: and he sought where to weep; and he entered into his chamber, and wept there.
My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.
What Greek manuscript are you going off of. Why do you think it is superior? Are you going with the Westcott and Hort Greek text? The Vaticanus, and Sinaiticus? Nestle and Aland? Codex Alexandrinus? Did you compare all these Greek manuscripts to see which one is the best by comparing doctrine, and accuracy? Why should we trust you over the KJV translators? Does your credentials match or compare to them?
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So is that your translation of what you think Matthew 4:3 is actually saying?
If so, does any Greek speaking expert who lives in Greece and whose native tongue is Greek acknowledge this?
Any early church fathers believe this?
Again, this sounds like you are going lone wolf and only you are able to know this.
This means we have to go to you, "the guru", to get God's words. This is insane and its how cults are formed.
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If so, does any Greek speaking expert who lives in Greece and whose native tongue is Greek acknowledge this?
Any early church fathers believe this?
Again, this sounds like you are going lone wolf and only you are able to know this.
This means we have to go to you, "the guru", to get God's words. This is insane and its how cults are formed.
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Sounds like this guy started a cult. Again, can his interpretation be verified by men like Georgios Babiniotis who has written tons of dictionaries on the Greek language and who lives in Greece, and his native tongue is Greek? Can his interpretations be verified by early church writers? Most likely not. He is a lone wolf seeking to impress illogical and uneducated believers with a kind of Greek that does not exist anywhere except in his own mind.
Get away from this man immediately!
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Get away from this man immediately!
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Yes, Paul does say this. This is not news. However, he is directly replying to my question as if to suggest that is the underlying Greek in Matthew 4:3 by my question. My question was asking him what he thinks Matthew 4:3 says. The verse he gave was his response. So blame him, and not me, please. Regardless, even if he think it means something else, he is following one man who has unique interpretations on the Greek that nobody has heard before. This is why the Modern Bible Movement is dangerous. Everyone becomes their own Greek expert, even if it does not align with the Greek world, or early church fathers.
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You said:
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God,
command that these stones be made bread.
It does not reveal the true meaning in English... in the manner as you claim.
Yet, in some ways, it's more literal and better when that is the case.
And, modern translations in many ways reveal the true meaning much better in a manner we can understand today.
None are perfect.
======================================================================================================
God is perfect, God’s word is perfect and you are telling us None is perfect?
Romans 4:3
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Let's study your case by comparing scripture with other scriptures that reveal the true meaning we need to understand. Try here to check with the so-called Trojan horse NKJB and other the like with the so-called old-worn KJB
King James Bible
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
New King James Version
Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
NASB 1995
And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
New International Version
The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
I see differences when the English texts are laid out here,
First, the KJB stated that the “stones be made bread” whereas the three modern Bibles being compared have translated the Greek ‘ginomai’ as “become” bread.
Does the word in Greek mean to become or made in this context? While there is no doubt that KJB was used and translated in other cases for the Greek word ginomai as ‘become’ in many passages of the scriptures. However, I believe the English KJB is the correct or the appropriate word to fit the context.
What’s in the context by the way?
Context: Jesus was tempted by the devil so by the space of 40 days and 40 nights, Jesus hungered. The temptation challenges Christ's divinity if he is the Son of God, the Creator. We know the correlation of the Word in Creation as the plain scripture told us.
John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Since the context is about challenging Christ's divinity, the KJB precisely translated the Greek genomai as “made” rather than “become” for the following reasons:
Thus “Become” does not fit the context. However, the NIV is telling us a different story. Here, he is to “tell the stones to become bread” is absurd. The NIV is saying flat wrong and does not satisfy the context. While the Lord can command anything, this is not an act of creation.
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God,
command that these stones be made bread.
It does not reveal the true meaning in English... in the manner as you claim.
Yet, in some ways, it's more literal and better when that is the case.
And, modern translations in many ways reveal the true meaning much better in a manner we can understand today.
None are perfect.
======================================================================================================
God is perfect, God’s word is perfect and you are telling us None is perfect?
Romans 4:3
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Let's study your case by comparing scripture with other scriptures that reveal the true meaning we need to understand. Try here to check with the so-called Trojan horse NKJB and other the like with the so-called old-worn KJB
King James Bible
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
New King James Version
Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
NASB 1995
And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
New International Version
The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
I see differences when the English texts are laid out here,
First, the KJB stated that the “stones be made bread” whereas the three modern Bibles being compared have translated the Greek ‘ginomai’ as “become” bread.
Does the word in Greek mean to become or made in this context? While there is no doubt that KJB was used and translated in other cases for the Greek word ginomai as ‘become’ in many passages of the scriptures. However, I believe the English KJB is the correct or the appropriate word to fit the context.
What’s in the context by the way?
Context: Jesus was tempted by the devil so by the space of 40 days and 40 nights, Jesus hungered. The temptation challenges Christ's divinity if he is the Son of God, the Creator. We know the correlation of the Word in Creation as the plain scripture told us.
John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Since the context is about challenging Christ's divinity, the KJB precisely translated the Greek genomai as “made” rather than “become” for the following reasons:
- Indicates creation. Here, Satan tempts Jesus to use his power to instantly transform stones into bread, emphasizing creation. This is not true for the word “become” which indicates a process and often indicates a gradual change.
- Implies direct action. The action is directed that stones be made into bread, the occurrence of an undeniable direct action of Christ to satisfy his physical hunger during the time. Where to” become” needs a natural development and lacks divine power that can make all things.
- Thus, bringing with the immediate existence of bread from the stones will manifest the creative power of his divinity. Unlike the word “become” which suggests evolving into something
Thus “Become” does not fit the context. However, the NIV is telling us a different story. Here, he is to “tell the stones to become bread” is absurd. The NIV is saying flat wrong and does not satisfy the context. While the Lord can command anything, this is not an act of creation.
I am simply asking you what your interpretation would be of Matthew 4:3, being based upon the assumption that the KJV is a perfect English translation.
Well? Was Satan tempting Jesus to prove something about himself?
Its a simple question...
Try again, please? Keep it short and simple, please. No need for commentary quotes.
King James Bible
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God,
command that these stones be made bread." Mat 4:3
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God,
command that these stones be made bread." Mat 4:3
Well? Was Satan tempting Jesus to prove something about himself?
Its a simple question...
Try again, please? Keep it short and simple, please. No need for commentary quotes.
You ask a trivia question and is not related to Bible version issue but let me try it for you. The key verse is found in v7 and 10 as Jesus answered him that God cannot be tempted which simply shows that he is God and he is worthy of woship. Satan on the otherhand, the tempter shows that he is the Father of liar and the truth is not in him. He knows the verse but he did not apply.
Hope this answers your question.
How about, could you enlighten us? You might be a good teacher.
Hope this answers your question.
How about, could you enlighten us? You might be a good teacher.
You ask a trivia question and is not related to Bible version issue but let me try it for you. The key verse is found in v7 and 10 as Jesus answered him that God cannot be tempted which simply shows that he is God and he is worthy of woship. Satan on the otherhand, the tempter shows that he is the Father of liar and the truth is not in him. He knows the verse but he did not apply.
Hope this answers your question.
How about, could you enlighten us? You might be a good teacher.
Hope this answers your question.
How about, could you enlighten us? You might be a good teacher.
My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they
may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know
the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures
of wisdom and knowledge. Colossians 2:2-3
Treasures hidden in the Word.. Not some secret code. But truths that need to be dug out and bring out buried treasures.
Treasures holding secret keys enabling one to break codes. Codes which need insight that would otherwise mystify and remain unexplained until someone with God's anointing to teach, breaks through distortions and unveil the truth needed to make a believer breath above water.
Now, here's part of the key to Matthew 4:3 that no regular translation can tell us...
In the Greek there is a syntactical system that was invented for the Greek's favorite sport and pastime. That of public debating.
When we see the word translated "if" in English? There are four class conditions that are deciphered by the syntax.
The word translated "if" can have more than one meaning. And, the Greek syntax will be holding to a specific meaning that the Greek readers would instantly understand. But, translations usually will fail to convey.
The common problem I have seen with teachers working with Matthew 4:3, is one that comes from assumptions from what appears obvious in English.. That claim being, that when Satan tempted Jesus to turn the stones into bread, because Satan was casting doubt upon the authenticity of who Jesus is. That Satan was calling his bluff, so to speak.
So far, is that understandable as I presented it?
grace and peace ..................
You ask a trivia question and is not related to Bible version issue but let me try it for you. The key verse is found in v7 and 10 as Jesus answered him that God cannot be tempted which simply shows that he is God and he is worthy of woship. Satan on the otherhand, the tempter shows that he is the Father of liar and the truth is not in him. He knows the verse but he did not apply.
Hope this answers your question.
How about, could you enlighten us? You might be a good teacher.
Hope this answers your question.
How about, could you enlighten us? You might be a good teacher.
He placed himself in a position as to not have any reliance upon His Deity.
Why? He had to be tempted like us in everyway, but without sinning!
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
If He were functioning in the power of His own Deity? Hebrews 4:15 could not exist!
Being tempted in itself is not sin.
grace and peace ..................
You probably aren't aware of this nuance of English grammar (despite claiming to read the KJV, which has excellent grammar). The way you opened your post, you have identified yourself with the "democratic left". If you did not include the words, "I believe", you would not have done this. You have essentially said, "I, along with the democratic left, believe...."
You have done exactly the same thing, only in favour of the KJV.
When you use verses that don't say what you claim they say, your integrity and reliability are questioned, and people rightly ignore your claims. That said, you also don't listen to people who claim, as you do, to believe in the perfection and preservation of God's word, though in a different form than you hold. Will my efforts in correcting you help you? God only knows. For now, I doubt it; you haven't demonstrated yourself to be teachable at all.
You have done exactly the same thing, only in favour of the KJV.
When you use verses that don't say what you claim they say, your integrity and reliability are questioned, and people rightly ignore your claims. That said, you also don't listen to people who claim, as you do, to believe in the perfection and preservation of God's word, though in a different form than you hold. Will my efforts in correcting you help you? God only knows. For now, I doubt it; you haven't demonstrated yourself to be teachable at all.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
If He were functioning in the power of His own Deity? Hebrews 4:15 could not exist!
Here is when He stopped functioning in His power to be God.
Philippians 2:6-8
who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death –
even death on a cross!
Now for a better detailed translation given by a pastor who taught from the Greek text.
He presented Philippians 2:6-8 with an emphasis on including details from the Greek
that typical mainstream translations avoid giving with the everyday reader in mind.
6~~Who {Christ}, though He eternally existed in the essence of God,
He did not think equalities {plural} with God
a gain to be seized {means to violently take}
and held {so that the Father's plan would not be neutralized}.
{Note: There is no 'robbery' here. He did not have to get equality with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, because He already HAD it! Christ as deity in eternity immediately accepted God the Father's plan for him to leave heaven and become human in hypostatic union. He did not consider this a loss because he still was/is 100% deity also.
7~~But He Himself {Christ}
deprived Himself of the proper function of deity
when He had received the 'inner essence'/form of a servant/slave
although He had been born in the outward likeness/image of mankind.
{Note: Outwardly Christ's humanity looked the same . . . inside He was different in that He was not born with an Old Sin Nature and He never created one by sinning}.
{Note: Verse 6 - He has the essence of deity - always has always will. Verse 7 - He took on the essence of humanity, except for the imputation of the 'Sin of the Father (Adam)' - The Old Sin Nature - i.e. the reason for the necessity of the virgin birth. Pure deity and pure humanity . . . this makes Him the uniquely born person of the universe - no one like Him - Jesus Christ - 100% deity, 100% humanity - in hypostatic union.}
8~~In fact, although having been discovered
in outward appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself
by becoming obedient to the point of {spiritual} death . . .
that is, the death of the cross.
Now...
Direct contact with our sins caused him a spiritual death. That is why he cried out,
".......... My God, My God! Why have you forsaken me?"
Our sins for the time he needed to endure bearing all of them, caused Him to be cut off from fellowship with God!
He was forsaken as we should have been.
I'd say they were, in fact, successful, as there are users of the latter two. I haven't heard of the KJVER.
It does no such thing.
Well, as the KJV is demonstrably not the perfect words of God for today, your entire premise is faulty.
Your arrogance is unbecoming and your broad-brushing is inappropriate. You are welcome to level specific criticisms at specific people (and support them with evidence), but generalizing puts you in the camp with the Accuser, aka Satan.
It does no such thing.
Well, as the KJV is demonstrably not the perfect words of God for today, your entire premise is faulty.
Your arrogance is unbecoming and your broad-brushing is inappropriate. You are welcome to level specific criticisms at specific people (and support them with evidence), but generalizing puts you in the camp with the Accuser, aka Satan.
