The Gospels and the Mystery

[John146]

Under the Gospel of Grace, we receive the "earnest" of Holy Spirit:

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

We've all heard of "earnest" money, and the biblical definition of that key word is the following, according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

"an earnest, i. e. money which in purchases is given as a pledge that the full amount will subsequently be paid [Suidas under the word ἀραβών], (cf. [obsolete English earlespenny; caution-money], German Kaufschilling, Haftpfennig): 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5"

Ephesians 1:13-14
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So we have received an EARNEST of Holy Spirit until our redemption is complete and we are dwelling in the Heavenlies, not the new earth and not the new Jerusalem that will set down upon the new earth.

Nowhere in any of that is it even hinted that there is/are some work(s) we must do to receive the fullness of the inheritance. It is given in earnest to later be given in full right at the point of one's salvation. The Kingdom Gospel requires continued works and faith, persevering unto the end of one's life to receive at death the salvation of the soul and spirit. Under the Gospel of Grace, we are SEALED with Holy Spirit what was not and will not be active under the Kingdom Gospel, within which one is indeed saved as long as they persevere. There's a good reason for this that many never consider.

MM

Yes, for those who are in Christ, our works will be judged at the JSOC, not for salvation nor justification, but for rewards. Some believers who have very little to no works will receive no rewards. Those who went on to good works will be rewarded accordingly. Once the foundation is laid, that is Jesus Christ, it's time to get to work building upon that foundation, but make no mistake, no matter how beautiful the building may be, the foundation is the most important thing.

1 Corinthians 3:
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[cv5]

I don't believe there will be a Millennial Kingdom age.

Think again.....
These passages are irrefutably conclusive. There are hundreds more.
Are you paying attention @Cameron143 @Moses_Young @HeIsHere ?

Question @TheDivineWatermark : Do you think that Eze 34 and Isa 27 are a perfect match?

[Eze 34:11 KJV]
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, [even] I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

[Eze 34:12 KJV]
As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep [that are] scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

[Eze 34:13 KJV]
And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
[Isa 27:12 KJV]
And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.
[Isa 11:11 KJV]
And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

[Eze 34:14 KJV]
I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and [in] a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

[Eze 34:15 KJV]
I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
[Psa 23:2 KJV]
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
(I believe this chapter is prophetic of the millennium)

[Eze 34:16 KJV]
I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up [that which was] broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

[Eze 34:11 KJV]
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, [even] I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

[Eze 34:23 KJV]
And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

[Eze 34:24 KJV]
And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken [it].

[Eze 34:25 KJV]
And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.
[Isa 11:6 KJV]
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

[Eze 34:28 KJV]
And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make [them] afraid.

[Eze 34:29 KJV]
And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more.

[Eze 34:30 KJV]
Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God [am] with them, and [that] they, [even] the house of Israel, [are] my people, saith the Lord GOD.

[Eze 34:31 KJV]
And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, [are] men, [and] I [am] your God, saith the Lord GOD.

======================================================================================

[Joe 3:18 NKJV]
And it will come to pass in that day [That] the mountains shall drip with new wine, The hills shall flow with milk, And all the brooks of Judah shall be flooded with water; A fountain shall flow from the house of the LORD And water the Valley of Acacias.

[Amo 9:13 NKJV]
"Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "When the plowman shall overtake the reaper, And the treader of grapes him who sows seed; The mountains shall drip with sweet wine, And all the hills shall flow [with it].

[Zec 13:1 NKJV]
"In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness.

[Eze 47:1 NKJV]
Then he brought me back to the door of the temple; and there was water, flowing from under the threshold of the temple toward the east, for the front of the temple faced east; the water was flowing from under the right side of the temple, south of the altar.

[Eze 47:12 NKJV]
"Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all [kinds of] trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine."

 

[Moses_Young]

Think again.....
These passages are irrefutably conclusive. There are hundreds more.
Are you paying attention @Cameron143 @Moses_Young @HeIsHere ?

I'm not sure what you're trying to do. It seems that subsequent to your defeat with plain scripture references in the thread linked below, you're skipping to other threads asking us if we're paying attention, to try to make out as if your theology is correct?

https://christianchat.com/christian-news-forum/the-hatred-of-jews.214439/page-111#post-5385722

If you want to continue the conversation, I refer you back to the thread below, where you stated:

Don't bother wasting your time on me bub.

I actually understand and know the prophetical truth of God's salvation to both the gentiles and the Jews.

Lucky me huh?

Note also you clearly don't know the truth of God's salvation, because you try to defend a theology that supports it being somehow be different for (those claiming to be) Jews, when it's not. It's always through Christ Jesus, and always will be. Everything else is the wide gate leading to destruction.

 

[cv5]

I'm not sure what you're trying to do..

Correct. Tragic indeed.....but correct.

[Eze 34:30 KJV]
Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God [am] with them, and [that] they, [even] the house of Israel, [are] my people, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[Musicmaster]

Correct. Tragic indeed.....but correct.

[Eze 34:30 KJV]
Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God [am] with them, and [that] they, [even] the house of Israel, [are] my people, saith the Lord GOD.

Looks like you're fighting against replacement theology somewhere...that demonic doctrine that dominates the thinking of so many modern, Western theologies that are littered with so many socially engineered theologies.

Nothing new in any of that from conversations through a number of different forums.

MM

 

[Moses_Young]

Looks like you're fighting against replacement theology somewhere...that demonic doctrine that dominates the thinking of so many modern, Western theologies that are littered with so many socially engineered theologies.

Nothing new in any of that from conversations through a number of different forums.

MM

Ironically, he is supporting it. CV5 believes those calling themselves Jews in modern times will somehow replace the Church, which has been purchased by Christ's blood!?!

 

[cv5]

Ironically, he is supporting it. CV5 believes those calling themselves Jews in modern times will somehow replace the Church, which has been purchased by Christ's blood!?!

Nope. I never said nor implied such a thing, nor do I believe it.

You see, the difference between you and me is as follows:
@Moses_Young : "I'm not sure"
Whereas I am DEFINITELY sure as regards God's plan of salvation for both gentiles and sons of Jacob.

BTW.....we owe an eternal debt of gratitude to the Jews. And, of course, God will reward the faithful Jews who will then enter their millennial rest.

 

[cv5]

Looks like you're fighting against replacement theology somewhere...that demonic doctrine that dominates the thinking of so many modern, Western theologies that are littered with so many socially engineered theologies.

Nothing new in any of that from conversations through a number of different forums.

MM

Well, the way I see it, its not just replacement theology. There are also disturbing sentiments of CHRISITAN SUPREMACY/SUPERIORITY.
Which of course is unbiblical nonsense.

We gentiles are merely byproducts of Israels TEMPORARY unbelief.

Jews are "first". Jews are always first. Both in salvation and judgement....!

[Rom 1:16 KJV]
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

[Rom 2:9 KJV]
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

[Rom 2:10 KJV]
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

 

[Moses_Young]

Nope. I never said nor implied such a thing, nor do I believe it.

And yet, this is where your replacement theology leads.

You see, the difference between you and me is as follows:
@Moses_Young : "I'm not sure"
Whereas I am DEFINITELY sure as regards God's plan of salvation for both gentiles and sons of Jacob.

The Pharisees were sure that Jesus wasn't the promised Messiah. And my comment about being unsure was linked to your motivations, given your deceptive tactics and ad hominem attacks. Telling that you should see fit to use deceptive tactics to garner support for your position.

BTW.....we owe an eternal debt of gratitude to the Jews. And, of course, God will reward the faithful Jews who will then enter their millennial rest.

Who is we? I am a Jew, yet I don't find your attitude very grateful. But neither do I believe your debt of gratitude belongs to us - which is blasphemy - it belongs fairly and squarely with our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

 

[Musicmaster]

Ironically, he is supporting it. CV5 believes those calling themselves Jews in modern times will somehow replace the Church, which has been purchased by Christ's blood!?!

Well, I'm an Israelite, but since I'm in Christ Jesus, I'm simply a member of His body with the designation of my being a "Jew" having been set aside as a distinction. As a member of the body of Christ, I too am under the Gospel of Grace, but the day is coming when the Lord will bring believing Jews, a remnant, into a Kingdom in the Millennium, a Kingdom that will be ruled by Christ with the faithful remnant serving Him in that rule. You and I won't be there in that Kingdom, so it really doesn't matter who thinks who is replacing whom. It's not a matter of anyone replacing anyone. It's a matter of Yah's plans for this earth and its people's coming to fruition.

MM

 

[Moses_Young]

Well, I'm an Israelite, but since I'm in Christ Jesus, I'm simply a member of His body with the designation of my being a "Jew" having been set aside as a distinction. As a member of the body of Christ, I too am under the Gospel of Grace, but the day is coming when the Lord will bring believing Jews, a remnant, into a Kingdom in the Millennium, a Kingdom that will be ruled by Christ with the faithful remnant serving Him in that rule. You and I won't be there in that Kingdom, so it really doesn't matter who thinks who is replacing whom.

Ah, so the replacement theology that you only just earlier spoke against creeps in? Are we all one in Christ Jesus, or not?

 

[Musicmaster]

Well, the way I see it, its not just replacement theology. There are also disturbing sentiments of CHRISITAN SUPREMACY/SUPERIORITY.
Which of course is unbiblical nonsense.

We gentiles are merely byproducts of Israels TEMPORARY unbelief.

Jews are "first". Jews are always first. Both in salvation and judgement....!

[Rom 1:16 KJV]
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

[Rom 2:9 KJV]
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

[Rom 2:10 KJV]
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Supremacy? Really? That smacks of the sentiment that some groups have less sin than others...

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot...there are those who justify their brand of anti-Semitism through the warped idea that it was the Jews who killed Christ. Well, that only betrays their ignorance of the very book they claim to believe:

1 Corinthians 2:6-8
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

So, the beggarly whelps out there who want to blame the Jews for having crucified Christ in order to feel they are superior, we ALL share in the blame for sin, with none of us enjoying life as lesser sinners than any other grouping.

Anyone who claims to know the scriptures would understand that the "princes" spoken of in the above passages is a reference to demonic princes, such as the one that the angel who spoke to Daniel fought against.

Rightly dividing the word of truth waylays this petty arguing as to who is superior or who is replacing whom. It's totally moot.

The prince demons use the hands of humans from every ethnicity to do their bidding, and Gentiles the world over are as guilty as the Jews. We ALL, and entire world, is invited to partake of the Gospel of Grace to be saved, all without having to be water baptized under the Kingdom Gospel.

Those who are jealous over the Lord ruling the world in the Millennium with the remnant Jews at His side, they're just going to have to get over themselves because it will all be as it will be, with no man today being able to do thing one about it.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Ah, so the replacement theology that you only just earlier spoke against creeps in? Are we all one in Christ Jesus, or not?

Compartmentalizing people into your fixed set of boxes isn't going to win the day for you. If you want to remain here in this life through the tribulation, thinking that you're going to survive into the Millennial Kingdom, then go for it. Give it a try if you so desire. I don't want to be here. I will dwell in Heavenly places right along side of all my fellow Jews and the Gentiles after we are taken up from this world so that those left behind can enjoy the wrath of Yah.

MM

 

[cv5]

I am a Jew

Oh really? Well then what pray tell us how you came to possess this almighty power of yours
where you can absolutely tell who is a "true jew" and who is not?

I mean you trot out the same line day in, day out, that Israelites today are NOT "true Jews", NOT the legit sons of Jacob.
@HeIsHere is persistent is saying that DNA studies PROVE that Israelites today are not "true Jews" just the same.

Question: do any of you have a sample of Jacobs DNA on hand? And that of his wives?
I mean, you would need to have that in hand even to BEGIN your analysis? Right?

 

[Moses_Young]

Oh really? Well then what pray tell us how you came to possess this almighty power of yours
where you can absolutely tell who is a "true jew" and who is not?

I mean you trot out the same line day in, day out, that Israelites today are NOT "true Jews", NOT the legit sons of Jacob.
@HeIsHere is persistent is saying that DNA studies PROVE that Israelites today are not "true Jews" just the same.

Question: do any of you have a sample of Jacobs DNA on hand? And that of his wives?
I mean, you would need to have that in hand even to BEGIN your analysis? Right?

So which one is it to be, CV5? If you say I am not a true Jew because you doubt my DNA evidence, then how is it you don't say the same for all those others claiming to be so?

 

[cv5]

So which one is it to be, CV5? If you say I am not a true Jew because you doubt my DNA evidence, then how is it you don't say the same for all those others claiming to be so?

You missed the whole point. Its amazing.
And I have NEVER EVER accused someone of NOT being a "true Jew".
Not you....not anyone else either.
And I have never assumed to know the difference between one or the other.
Furthermore, it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to make any distinction.

But you have persistently and consistently accused individuals of NOT being "true Jews".
As if somehow you know or could know.

Anyoo.....I am exiting this crazy train of yours. I want nothing to do with this insane realm of thinking. I am innocent and will stay that way.

 

[cv5]

So which one is it to be, CV5? If you say I am not a true Jew because you doubt my DNA evidence, then how is it you don't say the same for all those others claiming to be so?

And just to be crystal clear:
I definitely do NOT know who is a Jew and who is not.
And I do NOT care either. Frankly its none of my business.

In fact ONLY the Lord Himself knows the identity of His Jewish sheep.
The consequence of couse is that He is the One doing the end-time gathering.
And end time dividing as well.....

 

[rogerg]

Note also you clearly don't know the truth of God's salvation, because you try to defend a theology that supports it being somehow be different for (those claiming to be) Jews, when it's not. It's always through Christ Jesus, and always will be. Everything else is the wide gate leading to destruction.

Apologies for the interruption. Although we are all familiar with the below verses, I thought it is important to underscore their significance as they (along with many similar passages in scripture), unequivocally affirm your point. It is crucial to realize (and as stated in Galatians 3:29), that God's everlasting covenant with Abraham, was always exclusively through Christ. Those who are not Christ's, are not Abraham's true (spiritual) seed and can never, ever, inherit the promise - no individual can make themselves Abraham's seed by their own means, but only through/by Christ.

[Gal 3:27-29 KJV]
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[Col 3:10-11 KJV]
10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[Musicmaster]

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

It's interesting that a large cult claims that the keys have already been given to Peter, and therefore passed on to some dude on this earth since the death of Peter, which is utterly false because the keys given for a Kingdom not yet on this earth... Looking at that verse carefully, Jesus said that He WILL (future tense) hand the keys over to Peter.

Under the Gospel of Grace, that Kingdom has not and will not come until it is established upon this earth, which is AFTER the seventieth week of Jacob's Trouble, which commences AFTER the Gospel of Grace is ended with the taking up of the body of Christ.

One thing we can also bank on is that the antiquity of a false claim, and no matter how large the religion formed around it, such a falsehood is not made true because of its fleshly popularity. It does not good to have the keys to something that doesn't even exist yet, but there have been and are those who believe it all in the way it was taught to them. Coupling that to the willful blindness of the masses, we see how easy it has become to dupe those masses of people with masses of false claims since those masses never study the scriptures on their own.

MM

 

[GWH]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you saying that Paul also taught the requirement for water baptism for remission of sins, as was taught in the four gospels?



Yes indeed. Because Israel failed miserably because of her refusal to accept Christ Jesus as Messiah, the world of Gentiles had no other avenue for salvation, so the Lord made an alternative path to salvation that did not involve Law and works administered by way of rites and effort through the flesh. Through Paul's Gospel, there is no longer need for water baptism for remission of sins.



Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

It's interesting that the apostles appear to not have gone out into all the world as commanded given that we see them in Jerusalem when Paul returned to Jerusalem in Acts 15, which is at about the time of Paul's second missionary journey. Either that, or they had some sort of reunion in Jerusalem at that time. There are all kinds of legends of them dispersed all across the area, with silly artifacts supposedly on display throughout the region and at the Vatican that allegedly belonged to some of the apostles. Merchandising isn't anything new with mere religion...

MM

I'm a little late responding to your question: Are you saying that Paul also taught the requirement for water baptism for remission of sins, as was taught in the four gospels? No, Paul taught baptism with the Holy Spirit, by which believers become one spiritual body (1CR 12:13. Harmonizing this with references to water baptism in the gospels, we arrive at this understanding:

At the moment of repentance/acceptance, God’s Holy Spirit enters converts' spiritual hearts (RV 3:20), uniting them with God as heavenly Father (RM 8:9) and identifying them with Christ’s worldwide/catholic body or church (CL 1:18). This manifold event is called spiritual birth or baptism (1CR 12:13). We can infer that this dynamic occurs also for pre-NT believers, because there is no salvation outside of Christ’s ekklesia or church (ACTS 4:12). Partial knowledge of God’s Word will limit ability to cooperate with Him, so there is a need for evangelism or learning the full Gospel (MT 28:18-20, cf. ACTS 18:24-26) as well as for lifelong discipleship or spiritual training (2TM 3:16-17).

Confusion may arise from the fact that in Ephesians 4:5 Paul says there is only one baptism, but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the Holy Spirit. In His “Great Commission” Jesus tied saving faith closely to the work of water baptism when He said “Make disciples of all nations, baptizing them” (MT 28:19). Yet, in 1 Corinthians 12:13 Paul wrote that “We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body.” This suggests that spirit baptism occurs at the moment of conversion, when the Holy Spirit unites the new saint (saved sinner/soul) with Christ, because “if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” (RM 8:9) The indwelling of the Holy Spirit may also be called the initial filling by the Holy Spirit, because at the point of confession and conversion a person is cooperating fully with God. (See RM 6:3-7, GL 2:20) The evidence that a person has been baptized by God’s Spirit or included in Christ’s spiritual body is love in its myriad of forms (GL 5:22-23, JN 13:35).

Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are united if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the Holy Spirit. The details for this work are vague, but the mode of immersion best portrays a Believer’s spiritual union with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection to eternal life (CL 2:12, RM 6:4). As a practical matter, a new Believer normally would be baptized by the local congregation of the catholic (worldwide) church in which he/she will want to participate as an acknowledged member. Water baptism symbolizes spiritual baptism.

Instead of commanding water baptism for salvation, Paul said in one place (RM 10:9-10) that a convert should confess “with your mouth” in order to be saved, even though elsewhere (EPH 2:8-9) he taught that one is saved by faith. Both outward confession and water baptism may be seen as works manifesting love for God that every new Believer will want to (but we cannot say “must”) perform as soon as possible following his/her decision to have saving faith (cf. MT 3:13-15, ACTS 2:38).