The Gospels and the Mystery

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,114
965
113
plucking one quip from Peter that encourages baptism and one from Paul that encourages belief, as though neither ever spoke of the other, is quite a deceptive attempt at persuasion.

the truth is that your arguments don't hold water.

Peter also preaches faith in God, not works:

1 Peter 1:5​
.. who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
and Paul also teaches baptism:

Acts 22:16​
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Yes water baptism has never been a part of Peter's gospel.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,180
213
63
Yes water baptism has never been a part of Peter's gospel.
Hmm. Really?

Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter obviously was indeed instructing them to be water baptized. There was no other after he himself, and the other disciples, had received Holy Spirit.

Granted, the hyper-spiritual zealots of charisma will claim that Peter was speaking of a spiritual baptism, and they do so by injection of meaning into the text that simply is not there, for if Peter had been speaking of something on that level, then his words betray nothing along that line. As with Jesus after His water baptism, when the people obeyed the work of baptism, they received Holy Spirit because of their faith exemplified by their obedience to the ordinance of water baptism.

I hope this helps to enlighten you and add to your knowledge.

MM
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
Yes water baptism has never been a part of Peter's gospel.
The word says otherwise:
" Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. " Acts 2:38

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." Acts 10:47-48
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,114
965
113
Hmm. Really?

Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter obviously was indeed instructing them to be water baptized. There was no other after he himself, and the other disciples, had received Holy Spirit.

Granted, the hyper-spiritual zealots of charisma will claim that Peter was speaking of a spiritual baptism, and they do so by injection of meaning into the text that simply is not there, for if Peter had been speaking of something on that level, then his words betray nothing along that line. As with Jesus after His water baptism, when the people obeyed the work of baptism, they received Holy Spirit because of their faith exemplified by their obedience to the ordinance of water baptism.

I hope this helps to enlighten you and add to your knowledge.

MM
Umm, part of Christs' Great Commision to Peter and other Apostles is to preached the gospel, which is separate to water baptism to those who believed and to teach other things whatever Christ comnanded them. Peter simply told the 3,000 souls to repent concerning Christ as he told them of the death, burial and ressurrection as the per context of Acts 2 whicch you do not get it yet. Your snippet of bible passages does actually con you, unless you believe in baptismal regeneration which you are trying to showcase here. Wet Baptism ain't no power, indeed there's no power in the tub my friend. It's still the blood that cleanses our sins.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,114
965
113
The word says otherwise:
" Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. " Acts 2:38

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." Acts 10:47-48
I am a firm beiiever of ABC Always By the Context and you neglect the other parts of the scripture in Acts 10 esp. Vv39-43
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,885
645
113
Hmm. Really?

Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter obviously was indeed instructing them to be water baptized. There was no other after he himself, and the other disciples, had received Holy Spirit.

Granted, the hyper-spiritual zealots of charisma will claim that Peter was speaking of a spiritual baptism, and they do so by injection of meaning into the text that simply is not there, for if Peter had been speaking of something on that level, then his words betray nothing along that line. As with Jesus after His water baptism, when the people obeyed the work of baptism, they received Holy Spirit because of their faith exemplified by their obedience to the ordinance of water baptism.

I hope this helps to enlighten you and add to your knowledge.

MM
No, Peter wasn't clearly instructing them of that. You’ve misunderstood what was being said because you stopped reading too soon and thereby assumed too much or you didn't understand what was being said.
Instead, Peter was explaining what God intended to bestow upon them. Verse 38 was notification not request. Peter recognized those he was addressing were among God's chosen and therefore those of verse 39.
The gospel taught by Peter was consistent with that taught by Paul, which is God's gospel rather than of belonging to an individual apostle. During the New Testament period, God endowed the Apostles with significant spiritual prowess, choosing to act and speak through them. Therefore, through Peter, those mentioned in verse 38, were informed that they would receive repentance and be baptized with the Holy Spirit. This promise was made specifically to God's chosen people- all of the elect - indicating they would undergo spiritual repentance, baptism, and perform unique acts such as speaking in tongues—a gift of the Holy Spiri (during the New Testament era).
Verse 39 clearly states "For the promise is unto you" and "as many as the Lord our God shall call.”. The "for" in verse 39 definitely connects the notice of baptism in verse 38 as the being the fulfillment of the promise made in verse 39 for ALL whom God shall call, not for those who choose to be water baptized. This promise referred to their spiritual baptism and the forgiveness of sins, which could only be attained through God unto all of His chosen, whether Jew or Gentile. Additionally, verse 42 mentions "they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine,". It does not state that it is the doctrine of an apostle - as in the singular - but in the apostles doctrine’ - as in the plural.

In 1Co 12:13, the true baptism is clearly manifested into which, all are MADE to drink of ONE Spirit

[1Co 12:13 &27 KJV]

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

In 1 Jo verse 2:25 we are clearly informed what God’s promise is: life eternal. And God’s promises must come to fruition. The “anointing” of v27 is from the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

This is the promise of the baptism by which God promised: eternal life.

[1Jo 2:25, 27 KJV]
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life. ...
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Observe that the promise made in v39 is explained in 1Jo 2:25 above. That promise is not realized by water baptism or by anything of man, but only of God

[Act 2:38-39, 42 KJV]
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call. ...
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,180
213
63
Umm, part of Christs' Great Commision to Peter and other Apostles is to preached the gospel, which is separate to water baptism to those who believed and to teach other things whatever Christ comnanded them. Peter simply told the 3,000 souls to repent concerning Christ as he told them of the death, burial and ressurrection as the per context of Acts 2 whicch you do not get it yet. Your snippet of bible passages does actually con you, unless you believe in baptismal regeneration which you are trying to showcase here. Wet Baptism ain't no power, indeed there's no power in the tub my friend. It's still the blood that cleanses our sins.
I understand the Greek from which it was translated, and the original language leaves no room for anything BUT water baptism. Spiritualizing it and/or trying to force it into the realm of symbolism, you're barking up the wrong tree on that one, my friend. The scriptures con nobody. It's people who force into the text what isn't there who are conning themselves, or have been conned by their false teaching "pastors."

It says what it says, and the reference from James says what it says, and the text from Paul says what it says, and saying it's all the same...THAT is the con.

MM
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,180
213
63
No, Peter wasn't clearly instructing them of that. You’ve misunderstood what was being said because you stopped reading too soon and thereby assumed too much or you didn't understand what was being said.
Instead, Peter was explaining what God intended to bestow upon them. Verse 38 was notification not request. Peter recognized those he was addressing were among God's chosen and therefore those of verse 39.
The gospel taught by Peter was consistent with that taught by Paul, which is God's gospel rather than of belonging to an individual apostle. During the New Testament period, God endowed the Apostles with significant spiritual prowess, choosing to act and speak through them. Therefore, through Peter, those mentioned in verse 38, were informed that they would receive repentance and be baptized with the Holy Spirit. This promise was made specifically to God's chosen people- all of the elect - indicating they would undergo spiritual repentance, baptism, and perform unique acts such as speaking in tongues—a gift of the Holy Spiri (during the New Testament era).
Verse 39 clearly states "For the promise is unto you" and "as many as the Lord our God shall call.”. The "for" in verse 39 definitely connects the notice of baptism in verse 38 as the being the fulfillment of the promise made in verse 39 for ALL whom God shall call, not for those who choose to be water baptized. This promise referred to their spiritual baptism and the forgiveness of sins, which could only be attained through God unto all of His chosen, whether Jew or Gentile. Additionally, verse 42 mentions "they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine,". It does not state that it is the doctrine of an apostle - as in the singular - but in the apostles doctrine’ - as in the plural.

In 1Co 12:13, the true baptism is clearly manifested into which, all are MADE to drink of ONE Spirit

[1Co 12:13 &27 KJV]

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

In 1 Jo verse 2:25 we are clearly informed what God’s promise is: life eternal. And God’s promises must come to fruition. The “anointing” of v27 is from the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

This is the promise of the baptism by which God promised: eternal life.

[1Jo 2:25, 27 KJV]
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life. ...
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Observe that the promise made in v39 is explained in 1Jo 2:25 above. That promise is not realized by water baptism or by anything of man, but only of God

[Act 2:38-39, 42 KJV]
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call. ...
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Peter said and meant what he said, because he was well aware of salvation being of the Jews, not the Gentiles.

All wrangling, fur pulling, twists and gyrations will never change what the text clearly says in totality.

MM
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,885
645
113
Peter said and meant what he said, because he was well aware of salvation being of the Jews, not the Gentiles.

All wrangling, fur pulling, twists and gyrations will never change what the text clearly says in totality.

MM
Neither will not understanding or ignoring what was written
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,114
965
113
I understand the Greek from which it was translated, and the original language leaves no room for anything BUT water baptism. Spiritualizing it and/or trying to force it into the realm of symbolism, you're barking up the wrong tree on that one, my friend. The scriptures con nobody. It's people who force into the text what isn't there who are conning themselves, or have been conned by their false teaching "pastors."

It says what it says, and the reference from James says what it says, and the text from Paul says what it says, and saying it's all the same...THAT is the con.

MM
What Greek? What spiritualizing? You must be barking on a wrong tree my friend. It must be interpreted within the context. You've ignored verses like of 22 to 36 which specifically speaks of the death, burial and the ressurrection of Christ which is the same gospel Paul preached. I heard nothing from you about that. You just avoided it. Now, having presented this to the 3000 souls, Peter say they need to repent ie to change their mind about the Saviour and received this gospel. Question is have they received it? Yes and were baptized v41.. so upon their belief and they were saved, it follows they were baptized. I believe this cause you the problem what you are proclaiming here that Peters gospel is a mixture of water baptism which is not.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
Peter obviously was indeed instructing them to be water baptized.
Paul also obviously instructed believers to be water baptized. your point being ..?

and Peter obviously taught the gospel of salvation by grace through faith:

1 Peter 1:13​
Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest [your] hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ
Peter and Paul and James all taught exactly the same thing as Christ: salvation is by grace, not works, having been fully accomplished by the work of God and offered to all who believe in Him, the Son.
therefore do good works.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,180
213
63
Neither will not understanding or ignoring what was written
If that's true, then let's evaluate what some are saying in here:

To say that all the apostles preached the same Gospel, which they did not, that leads to a consequence that some are not even considering; mainly that this belief in a singular Gospel was only preached in part by John, Peter, James and Paul, all preaching just PART of the overall Gospel. That's sheer lunacy, and scrapes the bottom of the barrel of honesty for something that's just not there.

Why would ANY apostle, when preaching the Gospel to the lost, seeking souls they encountered, only preach PART of it to their audience? It doesn't take up much room to speak the Gospels. The unique elements of each Gospel, although different, take up such a small space of writing, why would anyone lay to the apostle's charge the unspoken accusation of omission? Where's the proof? If its all one and the same, then PROVE IT. That's what I would like to see.

Never mind all the mealy-mouthed spiritualizations as if some here are more spiritually knowledgeable than others in the arena of spiritual things. That game is the same old crud we hear from hyper-spiritualists. Leave that cow out in the pastures to chew its own cud, and let's talk about the content differences in each of the two Gospel presentations. If the Gospels can't be broken down to language that even the babes in the faith can understand, how will they grow when having to rely on some self-absorbed purveyor of hyper-spiritual wizardry of words to make the text say what they want it to say, claiming that they are using scripture to interpret scripture, etc.

MM
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,885
645
113
Never mind all the mealy-mouthed spiritualizations as if some here are more spiritually knowledgeable than others in the arena of spiritual things. That game is the same old crud we hear from hyper-spiritualists. Leave that cow out in the pastures to chew its own cud, and let's talk about the content differences in each of the two Gospel presentations. If the Gospels can't be broken down to language that even the babes in the faith can understand, how will they grow when having to rely on some self-absorbed purveyor of hyper-spiritual wizardry of words to make the text say what they want it to say, claiming that they are using scripture to interpret scripture, etc.
Well, friend, you're the one who is self-absorbed. You've just blatantly tried to invalidate a rule set explicitly forth in, and by, the Bible, provided to facilitate the identification and understanding of its doctrine - of course, if you don't have the Holy Spirit, you will never be willing or able to do that. Since you haven't gotten that part correct, then why would anyone give credence to anything that you might posit as to the gospel's message, being that you've built it upon fallacy: if you haven't set the foundation level, then neither will anything you build upon it be level and a waste of our time to follow. You've managed to put yourself above God as arbiter of the Bible. Well done, not many people would have the nerve to approach God's word in such an arrogant, flippant, and unknowledgeable manner.
You should first try to understand how it was written by God, and when (and if) you've done that, you will be in a much better position to correctly find and assess its spiritual doctrine. You have to get the fundamentals correctly established before you can move on to the more abstract.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
 

vassal

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2024
805
345
63
I don't think anyone here was questioning that Christ Jesus is the One and only way. However, when you state something about "follow Paul," that's a false charge, because it is the very words and teachings of Christ GIVEN to Paul directly that we follow, today. The Lord has ever reason and right to make changes to the elements of salvation.

Under the Law, the Jews and the Gentiles who became Jews all found forgiveness for sins through obedience to the sacrifices and the priesthood of men. The kingdom Gospel demanded repentance and water baptism, where the Gospel of Grace laid down no more requirement than to simply believe in the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day. Period. Paul spoke precisely what Christ had revealed to him to preach as the Gospel of Grace.



Please stop with the false accusations. They do not at all cause anyone to look upon you as having any integrity whatsoever. Nobody here is placing Paul on the same level of Christ. If you're going to accuse us of that, then you may as well say the same about the other apostles who also taught what Christ had instructed them. They ALL taught ONLY what Christ had taught to them.

That you have not yet begun to rightly divide the word of truth within scripture, that should point a light of glaring revelation to you that some serious study is due on your part. The Lord revealed the Law and adherence to the Law through His prophets, and I don't see you claiming that the Jews placed the prophets on the same level of as the Lord. Come on!

These red herring claims of yours only highlight your lack of understanding about what we're saying in here.

Paul claimed ownership of the Gospel of Grace because he was tasked with taking that Gospel to the Gentile world, which has always been MUCH larger in population than the Jewish nation itself, and that still holds true today.

Most Jews are still scattered all across the world. They have not yet all gathered together into Israel. We are all over the world still, not yet having been drawn back into Israel by the Lord's drawing upon us. I'm Israeli, but I'm also, first of all, a member of the body of Christ. The unbelieving Jews, my brethren, will one day soon feel that tug upon their hearts to return to Israel, but that will not happen until the Lord is ready by His own council.

We Messianics are in the body of Christ, and some of us choose to rightly divide the word of truth rather than to continue onward into the falsehoods of intermixing the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace. That's nothing but confusion worse than trying to mix water with oil. James taught that man is justified by works, Paul taught that man is justified by faith. They do not mix except in the muddled and silly claims to a world of "spiritual" things that they don't even understand. Making things spiritual doesn't magically intermix what doesn't belong within the same dispensation after the former has been put on hold, and the latter becoming the one and only means to the same end.

MM
MM, Christ never abolished the commandments you should know this well enough. Many have forgotten the words of Jesus, that the point i try to make here, nothing else. Christ was clear in his teachings and told his believers, followers what to do to attain eternal life.

This is where Deuteronomy 13 comes into play. but the followers of Paul or paulinists refuse to see:

Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Deu 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Deu 13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which areround about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
Deu 13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
Deu 13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
Deu 13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 13:11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
Deu 13:12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
Deu 13:13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
Deu 13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
Deu 13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
Deu 13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
Deu 13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
Deu 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
all preaching just PART of the overall Gospel. That's sheer lunacy, and scrapes the bottom of the barrel of honesty for something that's just not there.
may i remind you... :)

1 Corinthians 13:12​
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
2 Samuel 6:22
And I will be even more undignified than this, and will be humble in my own sight. But as for the maidservants of whom you have spoken, by them I will be held in honor.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,180
213
63
Well, friend, you're the one who is self-absorbed. You've just blatantly tried to invalidate a rule set explicitly forth in, and by, the Bible, provided to facilitate the identification and understanding of its doctrine - of course, if you don't have the Holy Spirit, you will never be willing or able to do that. Since you haven't gotten that part correct, then why would anyone give credence to anything that you might posit as to the gospel's message, being that you've built it upon fallacy: if you haven't set the foundation level, then neither will anything you build upon it be level and a waste of our time to follow. You've managed to put yourself above God as arbiter of the Bible. Well done, not many people would have the nerve to approach God's word in such an arrogant, flippant, and unknowledgeable manner.
You should first try to understand how it was written by God, and when (and if) you've done that, you will be in a much better position to correctly find and assess its spiritual doctrine. You have to get the fundamentals correctly established before you can move on to the more abstract.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
You're somewhat correct...I do not follow the rules of interpretation of a particular denomination, sect or bandwagon group among the multitudes of independent group-thinks. I read scripture and study by way of systematic studies, and thus bound to no particular flavor, although there may be enough similarities to some label you may choose from among many to try and slap onto my forehead. Labeling others seems to be a favorite pastime among some here.

Your ad hominem response proved nothing in your favor, and actually damaged your own integrity. I now see you for what you are...

MM
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,180
213
63
MM, Christ never abolished the commandments you should know this well enough. Many have forgotten the words of Jesus, that the point i try to make here, nothing else. Christ was clear in his teachings and told his believers, followers what to do to attain eternal life.

This is where Deuteronomy 13 comes into play. but the followers of Paul or paulinists refuse to see:

Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Deu 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Deu 13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which areround about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
Deu 13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
Deu 13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
Deu 13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 13:11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
Deu 13:12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
Deu 13:13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
Deu 13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
Deu 13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
Deu 13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
Deu 13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
Deu 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.
You're somewhat right. Yahshuah did not completely do away with the Law. He took it and nailed it to the cross where it still hangs to this day (figuratively speaking):

Collassians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Those out there who are much like the Hebrew Roots gang, however, will demand that we're still under the Law, and they do that by trying to spiritualize this verse, along many others, out into the realm of ineffective meaning by way of mealy-mouthed nonsense through loads of injections into the text a system of meaning nowhere even implied within any of the context. The lack of impressiveness that they try to apply by being the Judaizers that they are, of whom Paul fought against vehemently and won after going before the council of the eleven in Jerusalem, we are ALL set free.

Those who are stuck trying to follow Christ after the flesh are lost to truth:

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

We now know Christ as LORD, King, Master, God, for He is risen and glorified.

So, when Christ told the man He had healed to go and show himself to the high priest and to offer the sacrifice commanded by Moses, He was indeed speaking to a generation that was still under that Law of bondage. We are now slaves to the risen Christ. You all can remain bound to the Him after the flesh, and see where that gets you.

MM
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,180
213
63
I meant for this to be directed at Roger.

Roger, you're somewhat correct...I do not follow the rules of interpretation of a particular denomination, sect or bandwagon group among the multitudes of independent group-thinks. I read scripture and study by way of systematic studies, and thus bound to no particular flavor, although there may be enough similarities to some label you may choose from among many to try and slap onto my forehead. Labeling others seems to be a favorite pastime among some here.

Your ad hominem response proved nothing in your favor, and actually damaged your own integrity. I now see you for what you are...

MM
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,885
645
113
You're somewhat correct...I do not follow the rules of interpretation of a particular denomination, sect or bandwagon group among the multitudes of independent group-thinks. I read scripture and study by way of systematic studies, and thus bound to no particular flavor, although there may be enough similarities to some label you may choose from among many to try and slap onto my forehead. Labeling others seems to be a favorite pastime among some here.

Your ad hominem response proved nothing in your favor, and actually damaged your own integrity. I now see you for what you are...

MM
Everything I posted to you was from the Bible. Did you read the natural man part of 2 Co 2:14? That is you.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,885
645
113
MM, Christ never abolished the commandments you should know this well enough. Many have forgotten the words of Jesus, that the point i try to make here, nothing else. Christ was clear in his teachings and told his believers, followers what to do to attain eternal life.
What do you think this means?

[Heb 7:11-12, 16, 18, 20 KJV]
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. ...
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. ...
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. ...
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath [he was made priest]:

[Heb 7:24-25 KJV]
24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

[Heb 10:16-17 KJV]
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.