I see. In other words, you have nothing to support your doctrine. I did know that already,
though I did wonder if you could muster enough honesty to admit it. Now I know: no.
Gods will vs mans free will
- Thread starter jacko
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though I did wonder if you could muster enough honesty to admit it. Now I know: no.
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of
the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. I wonder how when someone
is blind to something, which, let's face it, means they cannot see it at all, or comprehend it,
and finds the message connected to it foolishness, and is hostile in their minds toward the
One True God behind it all, and loves evil, and suppresses truth, and cannot come to God on
his own, being a slave of sin and unable to submit to God's law... I wonder how these people
who push "free will" think such a person suddenly decides to throw over their very human
nature and choose something he cannot even receive... some say without any help from God.
the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. I wonder how when someone
is blind to something, which, let's face it, means they cannot see it at all, or comprehend it,
and finds the message connected to it foolishness, and is hostile in their minds toward the
One True God behind it all, and loves evil, and suppresses truth, and cannot come to God on
his own, being a slave of sin and unable to submit to God's law... I wonder how these people
who push "free will" think such a person suddenly decides to throw over their very human
nature and choose something he cannot even receive... some say without any help from God.
Oh...so that's how the nation of Israel became apostate: They made all the wrong choices.
Finding clever ways to deflect from being honest is just more dishonesty from you.
While you make up terms and push propaganda to protect and cling to your traditions of men.
Oh, well. You certainly are free to be a dishonest hypocrite if you want. It is well within your purview.
I do find it somewhat odd that so many conflate having and/or making choices with having a will that is free. Very odd indeed!
Because your path of defection and lack of honesty and hypocrisy is so much better?
Your path of zero Biblical support for what you push is seen by you as being superior?
Jesus called people hypocrites when they were. Do you call Him vile also? Hmmmm...
Was He misbehaving?
Yes, they did because the thoughts and intentions of their HEART were evil continually!
Out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false
testimony, and slander. But according to some, this has nothing to do with the will.
Oh, and that "some" includes @JohnRH
Yeah...but look at the "bright side" of this picture: If I were a free willer, I would boast about Jesus omitting the will from his words. In the loony world of free willers, the center of man is NOT the heart! Rather, it is his "sovereign free will".
It's no wonder at all that they purposely downplay the true moral-spiritual center of man since scripture does not paint a pretty picture of the state of the human heart. They appeal so often to the will of man precisely because that one faculty doesn't take the bad rap that is attributed to the heart wherein the will is located.So...in their make-believe world when they come across a text like this one...
James 4:8
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
NIV
...they just gloss over it and again boast about how the the will of man is not in sight in the text, so there's really not very much to be concerned about. Matters of the heart and volitional matters are two different things, and at the end of the day it's the choice that counts. After all, the text doesn't exhort us to purify our wills.
The world cannot receive Him (the Spirit of truth), because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But somehow
in the minds and twisted theology of "free will" purveyors and pushers, people who are opposed to God
and hostile in their minds toward Him, lovers of evil, suppressors of truth, slaves to sin and unable to
submit to God's law... choose to believe in God, and wholeheartedly embrace the message which is
foolishness to them - all out of the abundance of their heart via the grace they find in their very own "free will."
Oh, and we must not forget this very important part: with no help from God at all! They must have magic boot straps.
in the minds and twisted theology of "free will" purveyors and pushers, people who are opposed to God
and hostile in their minds toward Him, lovers of evil, suppressors of truth, slaves to sin and unable to
submit to God's law... choose to believe in God, and wholeheartedly embrace the message which is
foolishness to them - all out of the abundance of their heart via the grace they find in their very own "free will."
Oh, and we must not forget this very important part: with no help from God at all! They must have magic boot straps.
And since free willers can raise themselves up from their own spiritual graves, they must be also be able to raise their bodies up from their graves, as well, at the end of the age.
Well, I have asked a number of times of various people if they made themselves alive in Christ and
circumcised their own hearts but you know what? It is one of those questions that always gets ignored,
dare I say, because they dare not answer lest it reveals the terrible error of their mistaken beliefs. So
attached and enamoured are they to their folly! With zero verses to back them up, while they demand
verses from us, which we obligingly supply in great number! Our many verses to their none, but...
They remain entrenched. Those ears just love being tickled, after all.
Tell us also that our actions are not our own, either, for you would have to say that
to be consistent within that verse, that we are puppets. That's always good for a larf.
And when God gives us the desires of our hearts... do you likewise interpret that to mean
that He gives us the evil desires of our wicked hearts, or that He gives us new desires?
But somehow we are not in need of them because according to you our wills have been
perfect and unaltered or not in need of being altered all along? Inquiring minds and all that...
It's ironic you bring up circumcision. I've been in the process today of updating a large file I created years ago that deals with all the faculties that are situated in the heart, and I came across this verse in the file:
Deut 30:6
6 The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
NIV
Geesh...maybe God is being overly-dramatic? He promises to circumcise hearts so that people can love him and have eternal life? Or...if anything, why didn't he promise to circumcise the sovereign will of his people?
And then the passage presents a chicken and egg type question: When does God circumcise the hearts of his elect: Before or after sinners freely and sovereignly choose to believe in him? Is circumcision the repentant sinner's reward for coming to his senses...or is divine circumcision a prerequisite to faith and repentance? Would divine circumcision be the cause to faith and repentance. Does God once again force his will upon helpless creatures?
with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
Is the file showing up? Any who, our hearts and ears need circumcising according to Jesus and the
revealed written Word of God, but to hear some here speak they do/did not require any such thing.
I know, I know, you must stop making so much sense, as you will only confuse those who
are already helplessly confused on this matter of why we need a new heart in the first place.
Seriously. They must deny this also, since the claim is that nothing is wrong with the natural man in the
first place to prevent him from loving God. Though thousands and thousands of years of history has
shown us something completely different than what they present. Both Biblical, and secular history.
It wasn’t about being rescued, it was about making a choice… choosing Jesus Christ as Savior Lord and King.
Unless you want to say “saved” is the same as “rescued.” I just know being saved or rescued doesn’t happen unless I choose to receive it.
.
I heard tell of a preacher who was asked by a member of his congregation
what they would have to do in order to deserve going to Hell. The preacher
answered: Nothing at all; just bide your time and you'll get there because
Hell is the default.
FAQ: Well that hardly seems fair. I mean; what about people who've never
heard of either the Ten Commandments nor the so-called gospel? Hell is
their default too?
REPLY: People who've never heard, nor heard of, the commandments or the
gospel, will be judged in accordance with faithfulness to their own intuitive
moral compass.
● Rom 2:12-16 . . All who sin apart from the Law will also perish apart from
the Law, and all who sin under the Law will be judged by the Law. For it is
not those who hear the Law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those
who obey the Law who will be declared righteous.
. . . Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature things
required by the Law, they are a law unto themselves, even though they do
not have the Law, since they show that the requirements of the Law are
written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their
thoughts sometimes accusing them, and sometimes excusing them.
In other words: it's actually Hell-worthy to suppress the urges of your own
conscience-- and nobody, no matter how sincerely they wish to be, is ever
100% true to themselves. Sooner or later they will do something about
which it can be said they knew better.
_
I heard tell of a preacher who was asked by a member of his congregation
what they would have to do in order to deserve going to Hell. The preacher
answered: Nothing at all; just bide your time and you'll get there because
Hell is the default.
FAQ: Well that hardly seems fair. I mean; what about people who've never
heard of either the Ten Commandments nor the so-called gospel? Hell is
their default too?
REPLY: People who've never heard, nor heard of, the commandments or the
gospel, will be judged in accordance with faithfulness to their own intuitive
moral compass.
● Rom 2:12-16 . . All who sin apart from the Law will also perish apart from
the Law, and all who sin under the Law will be judged by the Law. For it is
not those who hear the Law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those
who obey the Law who will be declared righteous.
. . . Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature things
required by the Law, they are a law unto themselves, even though they do
not have the Law, since they show that the requirements of the Law are
written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their
thoughts sometimes accusing them, and sometimes excusing them.
In other words: it's actually Hell-worthy to suppress the urges of your own
conscience-- and nobody, no matter how sincerely they wish to be, is ever
100% true to themselves. Sooner or later they will do something about
which it can be said they knew better.
_