The word of God is not a secret code that needs unlocked.

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would never attempt to exegete it, any more than perform the surgery that I know a certain doctor can.
I can only tell you about it.
You need to see the doctor for yourself.
He will show you. For free.

But for now.... Here is one translation that comes close to what is to be understood.


Acts 17:11


Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica,
for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures
every day to see if what Paul said was true.



And... here is something taken from notes from Bible class...



10~~And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea who having arrived went into the synagogue of the Jews.

(Note: As was Paul's custom, he went to the Jews first.)

11~~These {the Bereans} were more open minded than those in Thessalonica,
in that they received and retained the word with an eagerness of mind, and searched
the scriptures daily, if these things had it thus, and they wished it was so.
{4th class condition -they WISH, then after study, they know it to be true.}.

{Note: 'Open minded' was erroneously translated noble in some translations. And, the syntax of the Greek indicates that the Bereans were searching the Old Testament with the purpose of PROVING Paul CORRECT, NOT to prove him wrong as some suggest.}

Different class conditions to be found in the Greek rarely get translated correctly.
Matthew 4:3 is a prime example.

The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

You would not know it from how many translations put it.
Satan was not doubting who Jesus was.
He was not pushing Jesus to prove He is the Son of God.
That understanding is to be found in knowing the 1st class condition found in the Greek text.

It should read more like this...


“If you are the Son of God (and you are), tell these stones to become bread.”

That introduces a new and specific question as to why Satan would say that.

Satan knew Jesus as God was able to turn the stones into bread.
So? Why was it a temptation, then?

grace and peace .........

They wished us no where in the text
that’s what I mean. (I looked in the Greek by the way)

 

[Genez]

They wished us no where in the text
that’s what I mean. (I looked in the Greek by the way)

It's only to be deducted by the Greek reader by the syntax.
Simply reading a word for word Greek to English translation will not show you that factor.
It takes someone who knows how to think Greek.

We invented and use punctuation today.
They would use the syntax to determine the same kind of thing, and for other things as well.

Have fun finding out that there is much to yet learn...
Translating the “4th class conditional”

In Christ.....

 

[Lafftur]

Yes! And understanding that God gave a few good teachers comes only from the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 4:3 tells us that a vast majority of the teachers we find today will not be sound in God's eyes!

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number​

of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.​

Such it is as we find it today...

The Holy Spirit will bear witness to truth. We still need the Holy Spirit to discern if a teacher is teaching truth.

 

[GaryA]

If that is the case? Then it should be easy... Matthew 4:3?

Tell me what this passage is conveying to the reader, please.
What was Satan wanting to achieve with Jesus.

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, ​

command that these stones be made bread. Matthew 4:3​

What was Satan's objective with such a temptation for Jesus?

So - you want to try the same thing with me, do ya?

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Bob... we're just talking about tongues, and what was God's original intended purpose when it was given.
Not talking about "gifts" per se.

Chuckle!! tongues ARE "gifts per se". The bible is CLEAR about when tongues (and "Prophesy" AND "knowlege") will cease. it's found in
1 Cor 13:8. You keep avoiding the central issue: What do YOU (your paradigm) think "That PERFECT" is.

It's for they whom I explain things for.

Except you haven't EXPLAINED anything at all - only made Biblically ignorant statements.

So WHAT IS "THAT PERFECT" that will end Prophesy, Knowledge, and Tongues????

 

[GaryA]

In what manner do you believe the manuscripts are corrupted? For what purpose? To add or remove what specific doctrines?


With EVERY translation there exists a goal of translation that seems to focus heavily on certain aspects of doctrine while depressing other doctrines so that the denominations can promote their particular interests.
The manuscripts of yesteryear are examined carefully by photographing them under various light colors to bring out all old ink to make the characters visible. Also to lighten the background. (Usually they are black on black with the oldest ones)

Alexandrian are the most reliable but not perfect
Syriac tend to be okayish
Coptic is good as well but has problems. The Oldest is the Sainiticus. And it tends to have the largest number of errors.

Masoretic are still faithful to Old Testament but have "fixed" deliberate misspellings with notes in margins.

Then there are manuscripts from Russia, Africa, Egypt, Turkey and just about everywhere.

The Latin Vulgate has at least 4 major variations from which all of their various copies were made. It started with one by Jerome and degenerated from there.

The Oxford/Cambridge University translation was never popular until 200 years after its translation (the one you call KJV) and they used all available manuscripts they could find. However their search for manuscripts started something....and as soon as they finished that translation the searching discovered even more manuscripts....which then led to the immediate start of the earliest RSV Translation.

EVERY English translation has used ALL manuscripts they could obtain to figure out what originally was said....that includes the modern translations.

There's been no corruption. Just a distillation and refining process to make sure what was said was truly said.

The Westcott and Hort text is corrupt. Any bible version translated from it is corrupt. This covers most modern bible versions.

Just because a manuscript [fragment] is older does not necessarily mean it is better, more accurate or correct, etc.

The Textus Receptus (received text) is the most accurate and correct.

 

[Dino246]

The Textus Receptus (received text) is the most accurate and correct.

According to what standard? Against what do you measure the TR to draw this conclusion??

Of course, you don't have an answer, because there isn't an answer. You're just making up hogwash and framing it in lofty words.

 

[Genez]

I have come to believe there are people in Christian forums who's sole purpose is to interject confusion and to make sure that understanding the Word of God does not catch on with more believers.

Wait a minute... No, I'm sorry. That would be Satan's objective. Not theirs.

 

[Genez]

So - you want to try the same thing with me, do ya?

Can you answer it? You made a claim about your perfect Bible? It should be easy for you.

 

[fredoheaven]

To update, KJB is still one of the top bestsellers by EPCA as of 2023. Yes KJB is still loved by most readers.
1New International Version
2King James Version
3English Standard Version
4New Living Translation
5Christian Standard Bible
6 New King James Version
7Reina Valera
8New International Reader's Version
9New American Standard Bible
10New Revised Standard Version

https://christianbookexpo.com/bestseller/translations.php?id=BO23

 

[Leftheri]

What the OP said makes complete sense to me. The only logical prevailing thought is that it’s the HOLY SPIRIT that reveals knowledge. Personally, I love the King James. I’m not going to judge people on their ignorance of biblicaL facts which to my understanding is relative to their experience in the Word. But what is obvious is the matter of flesh and spirit. Every time someone opens their mouth to speak (or types), they are doing so in the spirit or the flesh. It is important to learn AND REMEMBER that the Holy Spirit reveals God's word. How else can these biblical scholars be so wrong and atheists who study the Bible inside out, yet they don’t believe? Anybody remember John’s words? He said the whole Universe can’t contain the books that it would take to contain the wisdom and acts of Jesus. Jesus spoke in parables for His reasons. We who accepted Christ as savior, who study to show ourselves approved, should pray for revelation. God will reveal what you need to move forward. People who try to study the Bible not expecting to be changed by it have grown stale and arrogant. I have come across people in chat who have very impressive Bible knowledge and an amazing ability to shoot out scriptures like fiery darts. They speak with contention and don’t recognize that they are in strife. Just like some fire and brimstone preacher blasting out…without love in the Spirit. I try to keep in mind that God is love. Jesus is love. The Holy Spirit is love. All things must be done in love, even when we read scripture. It is God’s love for us that pours out in scriptures. People spoke in other tongues for a reason. God could reveal what he wants to you in any version that was compiled through the Holy Spirit. It’s by the Spirit of God we are taught. It’s hardly what you and are capable of. It’s what God desires for us.

 

[JohnDB]

To update, KJB is still one of the top bestsellers by EPCA as of 2023. Yes KJB is still loved by most readers.
1New International Version
2King James Version
3English Standard Version
4New Living Translation
5Christian Standard Bible
6 New King James Version
7Reina Valera
8New International Reader's Version
9New American Standard Bible
10New Revised Standard Version

https://christianbookexpo.com/bestseller/translations.php?id=BO23

The NIV is not exactly a word for word as its sold as a "Thought for thought" translation....however this isn't exactly true either as it isn't exactly paraphrased either.
In truth it's a hybrid and blend of word for word and thought for thought....
Making it useful as a true study bible which is very readable at the same time.

 

[Genez]

If a translation could be a living book. One that could reason and make corrections of itself as it learns more and gains better understanding? Then, we would not need a good pastor teacher.

 

[GaryA]

According to what standard? Against what do you measure the TR to draw this conclusion??

Copied from https://christianchat.com/christian...slation-is-your-favorite.198605/#post-4541119

Suggestion:

Defending the King James Bible

A fourfold superiority:
• Texts
• Translators
• Technique
• Theology

God's Word Kept Intact in English

D. A. Waite


The author of the book says there are "over 6,653 examples of additions, omissions, or changes plus departures from the proper Hebrew and Greek original language texts in the NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION" in the INTRODUCTION of the book.

I have a hard-bound version of the book.

I recommend it!

~

I don't have time to quote the whole book to you (it is not a quick-and-easy answer) - if you have enough interest in getting answers to your questions, you will have to obtain a copy of the book. The answers you seek may be found there.

 

[JohnDB]

The Westcott and Hort text is corrupt. Any bible version translated from it is corrupt. This covers most modern bible versions.

Just because a manuscript [fragment] is older does not necessarily mean it is better, more accurate or correct, etc.

The Textus Receptus (received text) is the most accurate and correct.

Despite your claims...
Westcott and Hort NEVER TRANSLATED SCRIPTURES.
They only commented on them. The Westcott commentary on the Book of Hebrews is still followed often by modern preachers and commentators today as it is a handy reference for the Targum, Sifre, Midrash, and Talmud it references.

And they were claimed to be heretics by the Catholic Church because what they preached went against what the Catholics preached. Their preaching was instrumental in the Reformation and a reason why you have a Bible in your hands today.
Eadie and Lightfoot were Westcott's apprentices....their commentaries are also powerful to this day.

Sure, there's a Bible translation attributed to them. But it's not really theirs. Nor is it used. Nobody doing translating work relys upon their work. I wish they did....but they don't.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

The Westcott and Hort text is corrupt. Any bible version translated from it is corrupt. This covers most modern bible versions.

Just because a manuscript [fragment] is older does not necessarily mean it is better, more accurate or correct, etc.

The Textus Receptus (received text) is the most accurate and correct.

Your first statement is correct, however the false bibles do not come from the oldest manuscripts. That is a lie that has been debunked. if you wish, I will happily provide the information, but this is just about Westcott and Hort.

 

[Dino246]

… The author of the book says there are "over 6,653 examples of additions, omissions, or changes plus departures from the proper Hebrew and Greek original language texts in the NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION" in the INTRODUCTION of the book.

Repeating the same claim does not validate it. Your quote from Waite is circular reasoning.

 

[HeIsHere]

Your first statement is correct, however the false bibles do not come from the oldest manuscripts. That is a lie that has been debunked. if you wish, I will happily provide the information, but this is just about Westcott and Hort.

Went from informative to a ribbon!!

That would be correct ... "English language has deteriorated."
...... along with denying people have the ability to learn words and their respective meanings in context of the passage so let us just dumb it down.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Went from informative to a ribbon!!

That would be correct ... "English language has deteriorated."
...... along with denying people have the ability to learn words and their respective meanings in context of the passage so let us just dumb it down.

You are spot on. We can go back just 200+ years and read the federalist and the antifederalists papers written to the common people. They wrote at a much higher level than I do. They had a command of the English language beyond the textual critics, the Bible haters too. What so many pastors do is learn how to use a few Greek helps and get puffed up with pride. They say on one hand that the few archaic words in our Bible are too difficult, so read a dumbed down version. On the other hand they say that you must learn ancient foreign languages in order to really understand the Bible. In other words, they do what the Catholic religion did for over a thousand years. They want the people to be totally dependant upon the priests for interpretation.

 

[fredoheaven]

Despite your claims...
Westcott and Hort NEVER TRANSLATED SCRIPTURES.
They only commented on them. The Westcott commentary on the Book of Hebrews is still followed often by modern preachers and commentators today as it is a handy reference for the Targum, Sifre, Midrash, and Talmud it references.

And they were claimed to be heretics by the Catholic Church because what they preached went against what the Catholics preached. Their preaching was instrumental in the Reformation and a reason why you have a Bible in your hands today.
Eadie and Lightfoot were Westcott's apprentices....their commentaries are also powerful to this day.

Sure, there's a Bible translation attributed to them. But it's not really theirs. Nor is it used. Nobody doing translating work relys upon their work. I wish they did....but they don't.

Hi,

You might be interested, please see the link below to learn about the Revisers Committee of 1881.
Thanks
https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw148802/The-Revisers-of-the-New-Testament-1881