Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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Good point. The difference in how you see it and how I see it, that's a message to those who are not yet full sure of their faith, and so the need to examine it in relation to the Gospel of Grace versus the legalism in the things they had been hearing from others who were not of Paul and his Gospel of Grace.
MM
MM
But it does mean that all that he has purposed by decree will most certainly happen.
But it does mean that neither Satan or his seed are in control of God's historical redemptive plan mankind or any part thereof.[/QUOTE]
All that God has purposed must happen will happen. May things in scripture that God purposed to happen, but they were not decreed that they must happen. Hezekiah's imminent death:, for one instance; the destruction of Nineveh declared through Jonah, for another instance; the destruction of Israel and making Moses the progenitor of a new Israel, for yet another instance.
So, we can see from scripture that not everything God purposes by decree does happen. What He purposes by decree must happen happens.
But it does mean that neither Satan or his seed are in control of God's historical redemptive plan mankind or any part thereof.[/QUOTE]
All that God has purposed must happen will happen. May things in scripture that God purposed to happen, but they were not decreed that they must happen. Hezekiah's imminent death:, for one instance; the destruction of Nineveh declared through Jonah, for another instance; the destruction of Israel and making Moses the progenitor of a new Israel, for yet another instance.
So, we can see from scripture that not everything God purposes by decree does happen. What He purposes by decree must happen happens.
All that God has purposed must happen will happen. May things in scripture that God purposed to happen, but they were not decreed that they must happen. Hezekiah's imminent death:, for one instance; the destruction of Nineveh declared through Jonah, for another instance; the destruction of Israel and making Moses the progenitor of a new Israel, for yet another instance.
So, we can see from scripture that not everything God purposes by decree does happen. What He purposes by decree must happen happens. [/QUOTE]
Nonsense. All things you describe above were ordained to happen along with all the means to achieve those ends. God in eternity wrote his redemptive script for mankind. Now...we're all voluntarily acting out our parts as mere players on His world stage.
So, we can see from scripture that not everything God purposes by decree does happen. What He purposes by decree must happen happens. [/QUOTE]
Nonsense. All things you describe above were ordained to happen along with all the means to achieve those ends. God in eternity wrote his redemptive script for mankind. Now...we're all voluntarily acting out our parts as mere players on His world stage.
Another facet of this which you have brought up in quoting 2 Corinthains 13:5 is this:
Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
There's the key...faith. Not all had saving, genuine faith.
MM
Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
There's the key...faith. Not all had saving, genuine faith.
MM
When two people believe God did one thing for something as important as salvation, and another believes something entirely different as it applies or not to us today, then either that is a schismatic god with multiple personalities, or one of the two people is wrong, or they are both wrong.
That doesn't mean one is better than the other, but rather that the Lord is true no matter what. THAT is what matters. Every man is a liar, but God is true.
MM
That doesn't mean one is better than the other, but rather that the Lord is true no matter what. THAT is what matters. Every man is a liar, but God is true.
MM
Paul Thomson said:
All that God has purposed must happen will happen. May things in scripture that God purposed to happen, but they were not decreed that they must happen. Hezekiah's imminent death:, for one instance; the destruction of Nineveh declared through Jonah, for another instance; the destruction of Israel and making Moses the progenitor of a new Israel, for yet another instance.
So, we can see from scripture that not everything God purposes by decree does happen. What He purposes by decree must happen happens.
The things I described above were decreed but did not happen, so the means to achieve those ends were clearly not ordained, because it was not decreed that they must happen. Circumstances changed and God adjusted His responses according to men's responses in those cases. Nowhere does scripture say anything like "God in eternity wrote his redemptive script for mankind. Now...we're all voluntarily acting out our parts as mere players on His world stage."
All that God has purposed must happen will happen. May things in scripture that God purposed to happen, but they were not decreed that they must happen. Hezekiah's imminent death:, for one instance; the destruction of Nineveh declared through Jonah, for another instance; the destruction of Israel and making Moses the progenitor of a new Israel, for yet another instance.
So, we can see from scripture that not everything God purposes by decree does happen. What He purposes by decree must happen happens.
The things I described above were decreed but did not happen, so the means to achieve those ends were clearly not ordained, because it was not decreed that they must happen. Circumstances changed and God adjusted His responses according to men's responses in those cases. Nowhere does scripture say anything like "God in eternity wrote his redemptive script for mankind. Now...we're all voluntarily acting out our parts as mere players on His world stage."
*Shrug* There are a good number of verses in the Bible that talk about God's omniscience. But you can look for them yourself in your search to get to know God better. I think that is the best way for you to learn because from what I've read of your posts, you don't really accept what others share. You have to figure it out yourself. That's not a bad thing. A lot of other people are like that too.
🏂
Again. I am sorry your god is limited. God does know the future. Not only does he know the future he knows who will be saved as he predestined based on his for knowledge. This is not a Calvinist thing it is just the basic fact. God does not save people he knows do not have real faith in him. He knows you better than you know yourself
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Abraham acted in faith and that was fulfilled by what he did
“Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
James 2:21-24, 26 NIV
faith is only complete when we act upon it . think of what he’s saying .
Would it be faith if God told me that the world was going to be flooded and everyone will die , but if I build an ark like he says I’ll save myself and family .
But then I said I believe you but I’m not going to actually do what you said even though I believe the world is going to flood and everyone is going to die and if I build the boat I’ll be saved …..is that actually faith did I actually believe his word ?
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
if we hear what Jesus is saying we can start to believe him and follow after by faith
“Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
James 2:21-24, 26 NIV
faith is only complete when we act upon it . think of what he’s saying .
Would it be faith if God told me that the world was going to be flooded and everyone will die , but if I build an ark like he says I’ll save myself and family .
But then I said I believe you but I’m not going to actually do what you said even though I believe the world is going to flood and everyone is going to die and if I build the boat I’ll be saved …..is that actually faith did I actually believe his word ?
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
if we hear what Jesus is saying we can start to believe him and follow after by faith
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Well of course He can credit who He wills, but it's trying to TAKE the credit that I'm talking about. If you think you deserve credit for your salvation, any credit at all, then you have a reason to boast. Do you not? I'm not going to say anything about you, but I KNOW I have no reason at all to boast concerning my salvation, NONE. God gets every tiny bit of glory for that as far as I'm concerned. Even if someone drops a compliment on me now, I always point that straight back to Jesus. I say "anything good you see in me came straight from Him. I'd be interested in NONE of this, Nor would I do any of these things I do now before He saved me." I believe that is the truth, that without Him resurrecting my spirit and reconciling it to His Spirit to guide and teach me, I wouldn't do any of this stuff or think past my selfishness ever. I'd be stuck in the same pointless and blind deception I was in when He saved me. ALL Him, NONE me.
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Unfortunately James disagrees with you, in that Abraham's faith was only legitimized after his work of obedience to sacrifice his one and only son:
James 2:21-22
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
This is only a problem for those out there who refuse to rightly divide the word of truth. Ahh, but the majority of Evangelical, Westernized Christianity claim they see no difference in what James said and what Paul said...both of which are true, but that only were written TO those to whom they were written. James was not writing to the body of Christ at that time, as is proven by James 1:1. The slight of hand some people like to play with the epistle of James, always while excluding the timeframe for when it was written in relation to Paul and the revelation of the mystery that Christ revealed only to him AFTER James had written that epistle...therein is an example for the importance for that division that the willfully blind remain indifferent.
What James wrote was absolutely true, but only to those to whom he had written at the time it was written.
MM
James 2:21-22
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
This is only a problem for those out there who refuse to rightly divide the word of truth. Ahh, but the majority of Evangelical, Westernized Christianity claim they see no difference in what James said and what Paul said...both of which are true, but that only were written TO those to whom they were written. James was not writing to the body of Christ at that time, as is proven by James 1:1. The slight of hand some people like to play with the epistle of James, always while excluding the timeframe for when it was written in relation to Paul and the revelation of the mystery that Christ revealed only to him AFTER James had written that epistle...therein is an example for the importance for that division that the willfully blind remain indifferent.
What James wrote was absolutely true, but only to those to whom he had written at the time it was written.
MM
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