Biblical ignorance on display. your answer is 1 Cor 14.
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
Biblical ignorance on display. your answer is 1 Cor 14.
I don't believe tongues and prophecy have ceased, but they are decidedly in "remission." Why do I say that? Because the scriptures counsel us to test all things and hold to that which is good. What passes for prophecy and tongues these days simply doesn't pass the smell test. The genuine gift of prophecy will probably return at some point in the future. I'm not so sure about tongues.
Truth can't be debated, only distorted. Have at it. Those here in this form can see what you and I have said.
Listen, you can attack and name-call all you like, but your two verses out of context from 1 Corinthians 11 will not work.
This scripture is constantly misinterpreted & taken out of context. The 'perfect' is our new body, when we see Him face to face & we'll be like Him. That which is complete needs no gift to add to them.
It's all been said by others from what I can see.
Tongues was for unbelieving Jews as a warning and with the destruction of the Temple, Israel's time was over so no more need for warning. Tongues was not a gift to bless the Church but to warn Israel, Isaiah prophesied the time would come and it did beginning with Pentecost and lasting about 40 years (a nice Biblical number). As all God's gifts are good, the Church benefited when applied correctly. Unfortunately the Corinthians weren't doing a very good job of application which, is typical of many Churches today who think what they are doing is speaking in another language when all they do is babble. Thankfully for us though, the Corinthians blunder became God's opportunity to educate His bride.
1 Corinthians 14:21
In the law it is written: “With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,” says the Lord.
Is.28:11&12
For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, “This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,”
And, “This is the refreshing”;
Yet they would not hear.
The perfect is in the neuter gender and the Greek concept of perfect is "complete" or "mature" rather than our concept of "being without flaw", so the completion of scripture fits the understanding far better. Afterall, we will be throwing out the partial when the complete comes so if that is Christ? Which part of of Him do we have and why do we only have part of Him and why would we discard Him even in part?
It is completely illogical that the perfect should be Christ, but words of knowledge or prophecies needed at specific times when the Church was brand new, is far more likely as they would need instruction which, they did not have in writing as we have, on how to walk in this new life we have been given.
Said by others or seen in 1cor chapters 12 through 14 ? Your use of Is 28:11-12 is also out of context. And your "Perfect."
you forgot " Comes" is with that "Perfect Comes.
Which is in context to the Believer, not the Bible conization. The word of God has always been perfect we have not. Until we have been saved, filled with the Holy Spirit and study the word of God and live this life in the sanctification process we have not yet arrived.
"
AGAIN... That was written to the early church.
Written at a time when the gifts were supposed to be still active!
It would be like reading a manual for a car model that was written for the days when engines were
all carburated (no fuel injection yet) and explaining the benefits of properly adjusting a carburetor!
But, now? The days of carburation have ceased.
The word of God doesn't provide the context for the Holy Spirit empowerment only for the early church.
1 Corinthians 14
13Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue is to pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. 15What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit, but I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit, but I will sing with the mind also. 16For otherwise, if you bless God [g]in the spirit only, how will the one who occupies the place of the [h]outsider know to say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you are saying? 17For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. 18I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19nevertheless, in church I prefer to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.
While it IS more blessed to give than to receive, it is still a blessing to receive.
Notice what the Bible says about prophetic utterance:
1 Corinthians 14
1Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people, but to God; for no one [a]understands, but https://biblehub.com/nasb_/1_corinthians/14.htm#fnin his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification, [c]exhortation, and consolation. 4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but rather that you would prophesy; and greater is the one who prophesies than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edification.
The Bible agrees that tongues is less than prophesying. But in V5, Paul wishes that we do both.
There's so much we miss when we choose not to look for it.
Paul here didn't separate these two subjects, but put them together to show us that if we want love to increase, we need spiritual gifts as a method of sharing that love. The more we do to prove our love for God & man, the better we show God's love to the world.
John 14
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments 16I will ask the Father, and He will give you another [g]Helper, so that He may be with you forever; 17the Helper is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him; but you know Him because He remains with you and will be in you.
21The one who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him.”
John 15:10
New American Standard Bible
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.
If you argument is as you have stated, " the gift of Tongues stopped in 70 AD. " Yet there is nothing in the word of God that says that, other than your assumption of 1cor chapter 13:8-10 and Is 28:11. Four Verses.
You had to add in that the gift of tongues stopped or the gifts of the Holy Spirit in 70 AD. Nothing you have provided states that.
Then, you used Virgil and Hinduism to support the position you were called on.
Then, you resulted in name-calling, attacking one's ability to think or suggest that they don't. You have profaned the gifts of the Holy Spirit with foolish points of descriptiveness as your counterpart did here, too.
My argument is and has been provided in my qestion, "Where in the Word of God states that the Gifts are not for today."
If you say 1cor chapter 13:8-10 and Is 28:11 and some other historical narrative, you have to say that, means that, and teaches that; I disagree.
You have put forth your argument so eloquently how could I ever possibly disagree.
Our bodies aren't going to mature or be completed, they will be radically transformed.
You keep using the word perfect in the wrong sense. Were the scriptures complete in the 8th century bc or did the Lord still have more to say?
Out of context? The Isaiah passage is what Paul is quoting in 1Cor.14.
The context of 1Cor.13 is to the believer regarding prophecy, tongues and knowledge. You think we will stop growing in our knowledge of the Lord at the Resurrection? We will never stop plumbing the depths of His riches in glory. The difference is we won't be going to a book to know His will, we will be able to ask Him anything face to face. So, no more back and forth discussion like this.
Obviously by being/remaining IGNORANT of what the Bible says about "Tongues".You have put forth your argument so eloquently how could I ever possibly disagree.
tongues is a sign to unbeliever
Abruptly ceasing is the only one that could fit the Rapture scenario.....
We are going to be too busy being amazed and in awe to want to continue prophesying... let alone *healing* others.
They keep trying. They refuse to face it, and quit their addiction which will cause them to lose rewards and find themselves
ashamed, though in a resurrection body.
Its true. Satan is out to steal and rob They are falling for the delusion that God's Word would have caused them to wake up and run far from it.
1 Corinthians 14
13Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue is to pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. 15What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit, but I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit, but I will sing with the mind also. 16For otherwise, if you bless God [g]in the spirit only, how will the one who occupies the place of the [h]outsider know to say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you are saying? 17For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. 18I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19nevertheless, in church I prefer to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.
While it IS more blessed to give than to receive, it is still a blessing to receive.
Notice what the Bible says about prophetic utterance:
1 Corinthians 14
1Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people, but to God; for no one [a]understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification, [c]exhortation, and consolation. 4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but rather that you would prophesy; and greater is the one who prophesies than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edification.
The Bible agrees that tongues is less than prophesying. But in V5, Paul wishes that we do both.
There's so much we miss when we choose not to look for it.
Why does everyone keep ignoring the purpose of tongues? Is it because there are those who prefer to remain as children in their thinking?
1Cor.14:20-22
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. 21 In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”
says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers;
Miss out on what?
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Philippians 1:21
For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Psalm 73:25
Whom have I in heaven but thee? And there is nothing upon earth that I desire besides thee.
Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why we utter the Amen through him, to the glory of God.
I miss out on absolutely nothing because I'm not looking for gifts, I'm looking for the Giver. My Lord ensures I have all I need and I want for nothing for He is the lover of my soul.
Peter tells us that Paul had a problem with such as these....
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters.
His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:16
Sad to say. Peter says they are going to be amongst us.
- Status