Will There Be A Rapture?

[Cameron143]

And what Church is that, one that joins their old African pagan blood rituals in with Christian doctrines? That kind of thing is happening with new converts in those lands too.

And when the coming false-Messiah shows up in our near future, working great signs and wonders to deceive the whole world, will Jesus find Faith on the earth still when He does return afterwards to defeat that false-Messiah?

The final showdown at the end of this world (the time of "great tribulation" Jesus taught), hasn't even come yet today, and you're already talking like the battle is over on earth. That tells me you really are not prepared for what is coming in our near future just prior to Christ's future return. Listen to Him, and not man.

All you have stated is simply from an incorrect understanding of scripture. What is the purpose of the book of Revelation?

 

[DavyP]

I never stated my position on eschatology. Ask before you assume.

You didn't have to 'claim' a position, as that's not what my conversation was about. I don't care what your position is. You could be of any denomination. So what I said assumed nothing, except that you were defending the Amill position. Now if you were not, then I have to assume that you came here just to argue.

 

[DavyP]

All you have stated is simply from an incorrect understanding of scripture. What is the purpose of the book of Revelation?

I don't know what man you are listening to, but I recommend you actually study the Book of Revelation, otherwise you would not have to ask anyone what it is about.

 

[Cameron143]

I really don't know what you're on about, but it suggests very un-Biblical ideas.

The Book of Revelation given by Christ to John was given to the Churches about the latter days. The parallel Bible Book that covers many of the same subjects is the Book of Genesis, not Deuteronomy.

At least I now know why your understanding is so poor.

 

[DavyP]

But notice... @PennEd did NOT list that passage in Matthew 24 as being "pre-trib rapture"

Then you missed what he posted in his post #51, which is definitely ideas from the pre-trib rapture school. One of biggest clues on that list is right at the top too, with that idea that there is no 'catching away' at the 2nd coming. That is a specific doctrine of the pre-trib rapture fallacy, because that Matthew 24 Scripture I posted in reply that Jesus said shows His gathering of His elect Church will be AFTER... the tribulation, which means Jesus' 2nd coming.

 

[Cameron143]

And what Church is that, one that joins their old African pagan blood rituals in with Christian doctrines? That kind of thing is happening with new converts in those lands too.

And when the coming false-Messiah shows up in our near future, working great signs and wonders to deceive the whole world, will Jesus find Faith on the earth still when He does return afterwards to defeat that false-Messiah?

The final showdown at the end of this world (the time of "great tribulation" Jesus taught), hasn't even come yet today, and you're already talking like the battle is over on earth. That tells me you really are not prepared for what is coming in our near future just prior to Christ's future return. Listen to Him, and not man.

It's expected of scripture to be understood first as it would be understood by the audience it was actually written to.

 

[DavyP]

At least I now know why your understanding is so poor.

Your arguments are baseless, and all you are trying to do is attack one's credibility, and not discuss actual Bible Scripture pertaining to the subject of this Thread. Welcome to my IGNORE list.

 

[cv5]

Then you missed what he posted in his post #51, which is definitely ideas from the pre-trib rapture school. One of biggest clues on that list is right at the top too, with that idea that there is no 'catching away' at the 2nd coming. That is a specific doctrine of the pre-trib rapture fallacy, because that Matthew 24 Scripture I posted in reply that Jesus said shows His gathering of His elect Church will be AFTER... the tribulation, which means Jesus' 2nd coming.

Nope. The term "Church" is not noted anywhere after Revelation chapter 3 all the way to chapter 22.
Nor is the Church noted as preaching anywhere after Revelation chapter 3.
The "wife" aka the ALREADY MARRIED BRIDE is first mentioned in chapter 19.

Why? The Church has been raptured in Rev ch 4.
Which of course is the 9th step of the 12 step Hebrew wedding procedure.
The 10th-12th steps occur AFTER the SC, including the MARRIAGE SUPPER.

Please show us anyone OTHER than Israelites preaching salvation during the 7 year tribulation.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't know what man you are listening to, but I recommend you actually study the Book of Revelation, otherwise you would not have to ask anyone what it is about.

The question was for your sake. I was merely trying to understand why you believe God wrote a letter to 1st century Christians about the end of the world when what was actually happening was the destruction of Israel. I guess you believe the people that time were very forward thinking.

 

[Magenta]

I don't know what man you are listening to, but I recommend you actually study the Book of Revelation, otherwise you would not have to ask anyone what it is about.

He did not ask what it was about but what the purpose of the book of Revelation was ... and he didn't ask because he didn't know ... he was asking to discover your understanding of it.

 

[NightTwister]

You didn't have to 'claim' a position, as that's not what my conversation was about. I don't care what your position is. You could be of any denomination. So what I said assumed nothing, except that you were defending the Amill position. Now if you were not, then I have to assume that you came here just to argue.

You went off on the Amillennial position, which makes no sense because you didn't even ask if that's what I believe. There are other eschatological views besides Dispensational Premillennialism and Amillennialism. It would appear that you're the one here to argue without all the facts.

 

[Cameron143]

Your arguments are baseless, and all you are trying to do is attack one's credibility, and not discuss actual Bible Scripture pertaining to the subject of this Thread. Welcome to my IGNORE list.

I haven't said anything about your credibility. I have questioned your understanding. And I actually have given the basis of my understanding.

 

[NightTwister]

It's expected of scripture to be understood first as it would be understood by the audience it was actually written to.

Why would you expect people who had a letter written to them to be able to understand it until at least 2000 years had passed? This stuff takes time, you know.

 

[DavyP]

Nope. The term "Church" is not noted anywhere after Revelation chapter 3 all the way to chapter 22.
Nor is the Church noted as preaching anywhere after Revelation chapter 3.
The "wife" aka the ALREADY MARRIED BRIDE is first mentioned in chapter 19.

Why? The Church has been raptured in Rev ch 4.
Which of course is the 9th step of the 12 step Hebrew wedding procedure.
The 10th-12th steps occur AFTER the SC, including the MARRIAGE SUPPER.

Please show us anyone OTHER than Israelites preaching salvation during the 7 year tribulation.

I suggest you go back to PennEd's post #51 and look again at the very top Heading with the column on the left claiming to be the rapture, and the column on the right claiming Christ's 2nd coming with no rapture.

I'm not going to argue with you on your statements from the pre-trib rapture theory. I suggest you heed what Lord Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His future coming to gather His Church will be AFTER... the tribulation, and not prior to it like man's pre-trib rapture theory wrongly teaches. And secondly, I recommend you actually study what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 about the asleep saints have to be resurrected first... and then Jesus brings them with Him when He descends to earth. And look at John 6:40 where Jesus proclaimed His raising of those saints on the LAST DAY of this present world, pointing to that last day is when His coming to gather His Church. This is what the actual Bible Scripture shows as written.

 

[cv5]

I suggest you go back to PennEd's post #51 and look again at the very top Heading with the column on the left claiming to be the rapture, and the column on the right claiming Christ's 2nd coming with no rapture.

I'm not going to argue with you on your statements from the pre-trib rapture theory. I suggest you heed what Lord Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His future coming to gather His Church will be AFTER... the tribulation, and not prior to it like man's pre-trib rapture theory wrongly teaches. And secondly, I recommend you actually study what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 about the asleep saints have to be resurrected first... and then Jesus brings them with Him when He descends to earth. And look at John 6:40 where Jesus proclaimed His raising of those saints on the LAST DAY of this present world, pointing to that last day is when His coming to gather His Church. This is what the actual Bible Scripture shows as written.

Look buddy: I definitely need no advice from you regarding the truth of the rapture.
But if you want to correct your folly, then take 2 or 3 years and study every rapture thread on this site.

Because the pre-rapture-ists win every debate every time. Because of course they are undoubtedly correct.

 

[DavyP]

He did not ask what it was about but what the purpose of the book of Revelation was ... and he didn't ask because he didn't know ... he was asking to discover your understanding of it.

Well, you just contradicted yourself dear, because if he was only asking what I thought the 'purpose' of the Book of Revelation is, then that is NOT asking me about my understanding of it. Furthermore, whether or not I understand the Book of Revelation is not the subject of this Thread.

 

[DavyP]

You went off on the Amillennial position, which makes no sense because you didn't even ask if that's what I believe. There are other eschatological views besides Dispensational Premillennialism and Amillennialism. It would appear that you're the one here to argue without all the facts.

I don't care what you believe. What you were covering was related to the Amill position, and so that's the subject I responded to. If you didn't want to speak on Amill, then you should not have been suggesting their doctrine. And if you didn't know... you were suggesting their doctrine, then that kind of reveals a bigger problem with what you present, now doesn't it?

 

[NightTwister]

I don't care what you believe. What you were covering was related to the Amill position, and so that's the subject I responded to. If you didn't want to speak on Amill, then you should not have been suggesting their doctrine. And if you didn't know... you were suggesting their doctrine, then that kind of reveals a bigger problem with what you present, now doesn't it?

Great. I don't care what you believe either. I was just clarifying a statement. Have a great day!

 

[DavyP]

Look buddy: I definitely need no advice from you regarding the truth of the rapture.
But if you want to correct your folly, then take 2 or 3 years and study every rapture thread on this site.

Because the pre-rapture-ists win every debate every time. Because of course they are undoubtedly correct.

I see no Biblical evidence in your words, but only hate because you obviously feel that I have upset your comfortable apple cart. I'm not here to upset brethren, but that is... what God's Word will do to those who go against it. What you have yet to realize is that you are not directing your hatred against me, but against the actual written Word of God, because that is my basis of what I've been teaching on this Thread about the event of Christ's future coming and gathering of His Church.

So my advice to you to get into His Word on the matter is just, and proper, and per God's written Word. But His Word is what you reject, not me.

 

[Magenta]

Well, you just contradicted yourself dear, because if he was only asking what I thought the 'purpose' of the Book of Revelation is, then that is NOT asking me about my understanding of it. Furthermore, whether or not I understand the Book of Revelation is not the subject of this Thread.

There was no contradiction. I was simply clarifying that Cameron was asking for your understanding, not disclosing the fact that he lacked understanding of his own. But you seem determined to be contradictory and argue regardless of what the subject matter is so I will leave you to it.