Do You Hate Trump so Much You're Willing to let Biden/Harris Destroy America?

[JayBird]

Some people refuse to accept truth.

Well let's recap.

You asked what law Trump was found guilty of violating. I answered by naming the law and providing a link to a law firm describing the law.

Then you asked what the jury found Trump guilty of. I answered by naming the counts and providing a link to the verdict sheet from the actual trial.

So if you have some alternative "truth" you think is noteworthy, post it. Otherwise, I've answered your questions and supported my claims.

The good news is that it will be overturned, and Trump will remain Teflon. They can't kill him, bankrupt him, or jail him.

So weird (and sad) to see Christians supporting a wealthy adulterer's attempts to cover up payments he made to a porn actress.

Just how many more values are you willing to surrender in your fealty to Trump?

 

[Cameron143]

Well let's recap.

You asked what law Trump was found guilty of violating. I answered by naming the law and providing a link to a law firm describing the law.

Then you asked what the jury found Trump guilty of. I answered by naming the counts and providing a link to the verdict sheet from the actual trial.

So if you have some alternative "truth" you think is noteworthy, post it. Otherwise, I've answered your questions and supported my claims.


So weird (and sad) to see Christians supporting a wealthy adulterer's attempts to cover up payments he made to a porn actress.

Just how many more values are you willing to surrender in your fealty to Trump?

It's an NDA. It's not illegal. There is no proof of guilt. Daniels herself said there was no affair. She was just angry when she broke the NDA that she had to pay Trump.
Do you have proof of an affair? Please share.
And it's not about covering up a NDA. It's about lawfare and election interference. So your virtue signaling is noted. Also your desire to have innocent people railroaded. Very virtuous. You would make an excellent Democrat candidate.

 

[Smoke]

That's only 1 of the choices given. Was he found guilty of breaking federal election law, violation of tax law, or falsification of business records?
The jury was told they could pick any of the 3. And they could find him guilty for any of the 3 reasons and not have to agree with other jurors on which he was guilty of.
So I'm not wrong. I just read the jury instructions before answering. 55 pages. You can find it on line. So the fact remains...no one can say with certainty what Trump was found guilty of.

My understanding is that Judge Merchan told the jurors that they MUST be unanimous on all 34 counts of falsifying business records AND that he did so to with the intentions of concealing another crime.

However, Judge Merchan said the jurors could consider 3 different ways in which Trump tried concealing another crime:

1.) falsifying other business records
2.) breaking the Federal Election Campaign Act
3.) submitting false information on a tax return

This + This = 1x Guilty Count

However, the judge said the jurors do NOT need to be unanimous on the specific way or ways they find how Trump broke the law, but that there needs to be AT LEAST one way per charge.

So, all 12 jurors DID find Trump guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records WITH intentions of concealing another crime. Where they may or may have disagreed, is which method(s) Trump intentionally falsified business records in order to conceal another crime. In this case, it actually created a higher burden of proof in that jurors had to decide if Trump falsified business records in order to conceal another crime.

 

[JayBird]

It's an NDA. It's not illegal.

Huh? He wasn't convicted of having an NDA. We went over this already.

There is no proof of guilt. Daniels herself said there was no affair. She was just angry when she broke the NDA that she had to pay Trump.
Do you have proof of an affair? Please share.

He wasn't convicted of having an affair with a porn actress either. Why are you so confused? Is it because you're twisting yourself into knots trying to make excuses for Trump's crimes?

And it's not about covering up a NDA.

And no one ever said it was. You seem very confused about this.

It's about lawfare and election interference.

You're close. It was about Trump falsifying business records to cover up campaign expenses, so as to not affect the election.

So your virtue signaling is noted. Also your desire to have innocent people railroaded. Very virtuous. You would make an excellent Democrat candidate.

This is precisely why Christians are rapidly losing credibility in America. Too many, like you, are so enamored of Donald Trump that you'll make excuses for every sin he commits. And you're fine with abandoning Christian values to do so.

When Satan offered Jesus political power, Jesus told him to be gone. You would do well to learn from that.

 

[Smoke]

My understanding is that Judge Merchan told the jurors that they MUST be unanimous on all 34 counts of falsifying business records AND that he did so to with the intentions of concealing another crime.

However, Judge Merchan said the jurors could consider 3 different ways in which Trump tried concealing another crime:

1.) falsifying other business records
2.) breaking the Federal Election Campaign Act
3.) submitting false information on a tax return

This + This = 1x Guilty Count

However, the judge said the jurors do NOT need to be unanimous on the specific way or ways they find how Trump broke the law, but that there needs to be AT LEAST one way per charge.

So, all 12 jurors DID find Trump guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records WITH intentions of concealing another crime. Where they may or may have disagreed, is which method(s) Trump intentionally falsified business records in order to conceal another crime. In this case, it actually created a higher burden of proof in that jurors had to decide if Trump falsified business records in order to conceal another crime.

SECTION 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree

________________________________________________________________________________
SECTION 175.10
Falsifying business records in the first degree
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE K, ARTICLE 175

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit
another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.
________________________________________________________________________________



The actual 34 charges would be: Falsifying business records in the first degree.

 

[Cameron143]

Huh? He wasn't convicted of having an NDA. We went over this already.


He wasn't convicted of having an affair with a porn actress either. Why are you so confused? Is it because you're twisting yourself into knots trying to make excuses for Trump's crimes?


And no one ever said it was. You seem very confused about this.


You're close. It was about Trump falsifying business records to cover up campaign expenses, so as to not affect the election.


This is precisely why Christians are rapidly losing credibility in America. Too many, like you, are so enamored of Donald Trump that you'll make excuses for every sin he commits. And you're fine with abandoning Christian values to do so.

When Satan offered Jesus political power, Jesus told him to be gone. You would do well to learn from that.

You still don't know which charge the individual jurors chose.
I will agree he was convicted in a court of law, but it will be overturned. You made the charge I'm trying to hide Trump's immorality based on this case. So show me the evidence that I'm doing so. In order for me to be doing so, you must produce evidence that the affair took place. I've heard recordings of Daniiels saying there was no affair. Don't you trust your own witness?
As far as covering up records, why did the FEC never bring charges? Why wasn't the former FEC witness not allowed to testify? Why did the court disallow evidence and expert testimony? Who's trying to hide things?

 

[JayBird]

You still don't know which charge the individual jurors chose.

Huh? I posted the verdict sheet that the jury filled out, complete with each of the 34 charges Trump was found guilty of.

Do I need to post it again?

I will agree he was convicted in a court of law, but it will be overturned. You made the charge I'm trying to hide Trump's immorality based on this case. So show me the evidence that I'm doing so. In order for me to be doing so, you must produce evidence that the affair took place. I've heard recordings of Daniiels saying there was no affair. Don't you trust your own witness?
As far as covering up records, why did the FEC never bring charges? Why wasn't the former FEC witness not allowed to testify? Why did the court disallow evidence and expert testimony? Who's trying to hide things?

Again, if you want to make apologies for Trump's sins, that's on you. I just find it sad.

 

[Smoke]

I'm conflicted because I do think the DoJ may have been weaponized against Trump... but IF the charges are true, as there seems to be evidence of his crime(s), do I really have a leg to stand on to object? I do value law and order, with no respect of person, yet I can see arguments for both sides of this.

 

[cv5]

He thinks we are better off today.

He is decieved..

Or a deceiver. Usually a deceiver is also deceived. But not always.

 

[cv5]

I've heard recordings of Daniiels saying there was no affair. ?

Correct. So did everyone else. Including @JayBird no doubt.

 

[Cameron143]

SECTION 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree

________________________________________________________________________________
SECTION 175.10
Falsifying business records in the first degree
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE K, ARTICLE 175

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit
another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.
________________________________________________________________________________



The actual 34 charges would be: Falsifying business records in the first degree.

Since Trump's former lawyer said he didn't even know about the payments until after the election, what was the fraud?

 

[cv5]

You still don't know which charge the individual jurors chose.
I will agree he was convicted in a court of law, but it will be overturned. You made the charge I'm trying to hide Trump's immorality based on this case. So show me the evidence that I'm doing so. In order for me to be doing so, you must produce evidence that the affair took place. I've heard recordings of Daniiels saying there was no affair. Don't you trust your own witness?
As far as covering up records, why did the FEC never bring charges? Why wasn't the former FEC witness not allowed to testify? Why did the court disallow evidence and expert testimony? Who's trying to hide things?

Another Soviet style show trial. An ominous debasement of settled law and horrific miscarriage of justice.
This incident along with the rest of the court jester cases and the 2020 election steal is making the US the laughing stock of nations.

Just look at the presiding judges and prosecutors. One could not imagine a more nefarious yet absurdly comical cast of useful idiots.
Judge Cannon was the only legit one in the bunch......and her rulings prove it.

 

[cv5]

SECTION 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree

________________________________________________________________________________
SECTION 175.10
Falsifying business records in the first degree
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE K, ARTICLE 175

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit
another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.
________________________________________________________________________________



The actual 34 charges would be: Falsifying business records in the first degree.

Its a baseless bogus case buddy. Do some research.
Pure spite and persecution.

 

[Cameron143]

Huh? I posted the verdict sheet that the jury filled out, complete with each of the 34 charges Trump was found guilty of.

Do I need to post it again?


Again, if you want to make apologies for Trump's sins, that's on you. I just find it sad.

That's the 2nd time you have born false witness against me. Show the proof or withdraw the charge. Or...be the liar you have consistently been since you came to the site.
What you've shown is the guilty verdicts. You have not shown which of the 3 charges the individual jurors found him guilty on.

Out of curiosity...why do you have such a severe case of TDS? From your responses, you seem reasonably intelligent. And don't tell me the lie you've been using about wanting the Republican party to return to sanity. You've already stated you are a long-time independent, so you have no interest in particular parties. Why do you let a billionaire live rent free in your head?

 

[Smoke]

Correct. So did everyone else. Including @JayBird no doubt.

The affair is sort of moot though. He wasn't charged with adultery.

The only defense I've heard for Trump is that his lawyer testified that Trump wasn't aware of the hush money only to contradict himself years later. But here is the part that doesn't make sense, Cohen is a repeated and known liar! Was he lying in 2018 or was he lying now? Why would anyone use his 2018 testimony as a source of legitimate evidence?

 

[Cameron143]

I'm conflicted because I do think the DoJ may have been weaponized against Trump... but IF the charges are true, as there seems to be evidence of his crime(s), do I really have a leg to stand on to object? I do value law and order, with no respect of person, yet I can see arguments for both sides of this.

4 cases brought against a candidate during an election cycle and you're conflicted?

 

[Smoke]

Since Trump's former lawyer said he didn't even know about the payments until after the election, what was the fraud?

That's assuming you trust a known and proven liar. We can't believe ANYTHING Cohen says. One of Trump's biggest mistakes was hiring him. He has to take responsibility for that at least.

 

[Smoke]

4 cases brought against a candidate during an election cycle and you're conflicted?

That's my point. Let me be clear, this was obviously timed by the DoJ to hurt Trump.... BUT, if it's actually true, which is where the evidence points to, can anyone really object if they claim to value law and order?

I can concede it's wrong to weaponize the DoJ, but I also concede if you break the law, you should face the consequences. This is why we need good candidates without baggage.

 

[Cameron143]

My understanding is that Judge Merchan told the jurors that they MUST be unanimous on all 34 counts of falsifying business records AND that he did so to with the intentions of concealing another crime.

However, Judge Merchan said the jurors could consider 3 different ways in which Trump tried concealing another crime:

1.) falsifying other business records
2.) breaking the Federal Election Campaign Act
3.) submitting false information on a tax return

This + This = 1x Guilty Count

However, the judge said the jurors do NOT need to be unanimous on the specific way or ways they find how Trump broke the law, but that there needs to be AT LEAST one way per charge.

So, all 12 jurors DID find Trump guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records WITH intentions of concealing another crime. Where they may or may have disagreed, is which method(s) Trump intentionally falsified business records in order to conceal another crime. In this case, it actually created a higher burden of proof in that jurors had to decide if Trump falsified business records in order to conceal another crime.

You have much greater faith in a NY jury than I do. The jury instructions are online.

 

[Smoke]

You have much greater faith in a NY jury than I do. The jury instructions are online.

It's not about having faith. It's about what actually happened and what the jurors decided. I've read the instructions and it's as I stated. I'm not free from error, I'll admit... so if you want to copy/paste something that says the opposite of what I stated my understanding is, I'll give it another look.