The GAP Theory

[tedincarolina]

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?

Tell Me, if you have understanding.

Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!

Or who stretched a measuring line across it?

On what were its foundations set,

or who laid its cornerstone,

while the morning stars sang together

and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

God speaking to Job testifies to us that the morning stars (angels as we know them) rejoiced as God laid the foundations of the earth. This entire realm in which we live; that is, from the furthest reaches of our universe to the smallest microscopic atomic make up of everything that exists in this physical realm which God created as a place for man to live, was seen by the angels as God worked to build it all for us. As I understand the Scriptures, the angelic realm, which resides in the heavenly realm, existed before God said, "Let there be light!" The angelic realm was not created at the same time as our physical realm in which man lives.

 

[Clayman]

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?

Tell Me, if you have understanding.

Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!

Or who stretched a measuring line across it?

On what were its foundations set,

or who laid its cornerstone,

while the morning stars sang together

and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

God speaking to Job testifies to us that the morning stars (angels as we know them) rejoiced as God laid the foundations of the earth. This entire realm in which we live; that is, from the furthest reaches of our universe to the smallest microscopic atomic make up of everything that exists in this physical realm which God created as a place for man to live, was seen by the angels as God worked to build it all for us. As I understand the Scriptures, the angelic realm, which resides in the heavenly realm, existed before God said, "Let there be light!" The angelic realm was not created at the same time as our physical realm in which man lives.

Thanks, I already surmised that you had the angels created before the creation account in Genesis or maybe day 1, I was more asking and am curious at what point do you have them singing about our physical creation?

Just for your interest I see the spiritual creation as a mirror of our physical creation with the heavens and the earth being created concurrently, I know some see angels as being created on day 5 or day 2 or day 3 or whatever personally I think day 4 but I'm definitely not dogmatic about it, it's just to me that when God created the stars in the heavens to be lights on day 4, seems possible to me to have created the angels then.

Also the 7 judgments of Revelation seem to mirror our 6 days of creation, you know how 1/3 of the earth will be destroyed. 1/3 of the waters will turn to blood, 1/3 of the light of the sun, moon and stars will disappear, 1/3 of the angels for some reason are left out of the descriptions in the judgment but they are active in judgment here, 1/3 of mankind will be killed. But it would take too long for me to extrapolate this, just that I think angels were part of our creation.

Lucifer in Ezekiel was perfect in all his ways on the day he was created, seems to point to being created on one of the of the days of creation.

Anyway I've probably stated this before but while I agree with you job 38, that the morning stars sang together, are indeed the angels. Lucifer meaning morning star or day star, the sons of God also shout for Joy which I believe is those who have been made sons in Christ.

So we sing together with the morning stars, although I don't think Lucifer is any longer called Lucifer but Satan, and the fallen angels are now demons.

When reading Job 38 this may sound strange but I think the cornerstone that is laid is Jesus Christ at the cross, and the foundation of our creation is set upon our Lord Jesus Christ.

I see our creation period lasting 7 thousand years and we are at about the 6000yr mark, just the 1000yr kingdom to go, then a new heavens and earth where we will dwell for ever. If one reads the the Job 38 verses from the viewpoint of seeing back from our eternal home it will make perfect sense, that this entire creation was where the foundations are set for us in our new permanent creation, where we the sons of God and the morning stars will together sing for Joy.

So to me the angels sing at the end of day 7

Just to compare our differences and for me to understand your position, I am curious when do you have the angels singing, on what day or after what event of creation?

 

[tedincarolina]

Thanks, I already surmised that you had the angels created before the creation account in Genesis or maybe day 1, I was more asking and am curious at what point do you have them singing about our physical creation?

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?

Tell Me, if you have understanding.

Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!

Or who stretched a measuring line across it?

On what were its foundations set,

or who laid its cornerstone,

while the morning stars sang together

and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

(deleted)

 

[UnoiAmarah]

f there is, would you please point me to the scientific evidence that proves that Jesus was born of a virgin with no human sperm to begin his life in his mother's womb?

Since it is written, "Now the birth of Jesus was on this wise", if you could tell us on what wise your claim that Jesus was born of a virgin with no human sperm to begin his life in his mother's womb is based upon then that would help identify the scientific evidence that would prove what is written.

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Matt 1:18

 

[tedincarolina]

Hi @UnoiAmarah

Yes, I'm aware that the Scriptures account for us all of God's miracles. The present discussion came up from a statement that science has apparently been able to prove the miracle of the creation and how it came to be and how it happened. So I was asking for some evidence of any single miracle for which science has been able to prove outside of what they believe that science has proven about the creation event.

The only thing that science can prove about anything that God has done as a miracle in our realm is to stand back and agree that yes, if God says something is to be or to come about or to exist... Bam! It just does.

 

[tedincarolina]

do this present 2nd world earth age creation.

HI @DavyP

Well, except that's not what God's word tells us about the six days. All that talk about it being any other creation event than the one in which we now live is only derived from the thoughts of your mind. There is nothing in mention in Exodus that would, in my understanding, allude to or make mention of or necessarily intend, that there is some other world creation event that God is referencing.

But because science has proven to you that the earth is billions/trillions of years old,... well, now you have to figure out how God's word can be true and support what I know to be true through the scientific method of man. But there is nothing in the mention of the creating of all that is in/on the earth and in/on heaven, that would indicate that there was some previously existing universe of solar planets and stars and such before the six days that God is speaking of. God's word just says,

For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day He rested. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.

That in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and ALL that is in them.

Nothing there that He did this with any previously existing matter in this realm in which we live.

But science tells you that can't be true.

So I ask you, what other miracle of God, and we do agree that the creation of the earth and the entire heavens would be a miracle, right; then what other miracle that God has revealed to us that He has done in some physical way upon the earth for which you have scientific support that it was done and can be proven to have been done through scientific methodology?

How has science proved that Jesus was born of a virgin? That's a miracle right?

How has science proven that in one night all of the firstborn of a nation, and their cattle just lay dead in one morning?

How has science proven that God flooded the earth?

How has science proven that the sun turned back and thus a shadow cast by it, went back the distance of 10 paces?

How has science proven three men can be thrown into a fiery furnace that is heated to, according to the account:
The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace.

The fire killed the soldiers who threw them in, but Hananiah, Azeria and Mishael all came out with not a single hair on their head singed. Show me how science has proven that's possible.

 

[Ballaurena]

What does "without form and void" (Hebrew tohu wa bohu) mean? It mean exactly that. "Without form" means that there was a formless mass before God changed it into a globe. "Void" means without any life forms or vegetation. It was a huge lump of "clay" surrounded by water, which was then transformed by the Word of God as shown. Day by day God added to it what He chose to do in a particular sequences.

We are not told when the angels were created, but it is more than likely on the fourth day, when the stars were created. Lucifer wad also an angel, so he was created along with the other angels. So when they rejoiced at God's creation, they were rejoicing over what happened on the following days.

“While the gap theory was popularised by Thomas Chalmers in a lecture in 1814, the idea of a long period of time between Gen 1:1-2 was first introduced by the Dutch theologian Simon Episcopius (1583-1643) to accommodate the fall of the angels...".
History of the gap theory - An exploration into the gap theory

And a lot of false teachers have held to this bogus theory. Oral Roberts, Harry Rimmer, Jimmy Swaggart, G. H. Pember, L. Allen Higley, Arthur Pink, Peter Ruckman, Finis Jennings Dake, E. W. Bullinger, Donald Grey Barnhouse, Herbert W. Armstrong, and Garner Ted Armstrong.

Unfortunately some who are not false teachers got sucked into this such as Scofield, Larkin, and Missler. But a lot of sound teachers also got sucked into the modern bible perversions.

Pardon me if I have misunderstood you, but you seem to be dismissing gap theorists as simply following false or errant teachers. For me, I basically became a gap theorist because when I read my Bible, I saw no indication that the events of the first few scriptures were at the same time, and there is much evidence, both biblical and scientific, that suggests the earth was around for a while before Adam. Later in my life, God introduced me to prophecy and a new fellowship and things that came up there via prophecy (tested of course) also confirmed this. So who are you to call gap theory a "bogus theory" when so many others seeking God and reading their Bibles have come to this very conclusion? Perhaps you were not aware of this, but please have a little humility not to so quickly dismiss the beliefs of others in the body of Christ. At the very least, respect that sometimes God gives different of His people different pieces of a puzzle, and they can seem to disagree until the whole truth is revealed. And all of us have errors and blind spots, so you would be wise to at least consider if you might yourself be mistaken.

 

[Ballaurena]

Gap Theory is just heresy and those that say so added to the Word of God

Jesus was a heretic.

And while I a cannot speak for all gap theorists, no, it doesn't imply that one is adding to the word of God to believe there was a period of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. It is simply an alternate interpretation of scripture from your own and that of some Christian institutions. For one thing, some KJV translations point blank say the earth became without form and void, and there is at least a debatable argument for such a translation, which is why there is a debate on the meaning of these scriptures.


Per Dictionary.com:
heretic

[ noun her-i-tik; adjective her-i-tik, huh-ret-ik ]
Phonetic (Standard)IPA

noun

1. a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by their church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.
   Synonyms: backslider, Protestant, recreant, apostate
2. Roman Catholic Church. a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.
3. anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.
   Synonyms: freethinker, skeptic, dissenter

 

[GaryA]

For one thing, some KJV translations point blank say the earth became without form and void

'translations' - plural
'point blank' - literal wording, including the word 'became' as a requirement for validity-of-claim
'say' - in the actual bible text, as opposed to a reference like Strong's.

I would like to see the "point blank" statements in those at-least-two [different] KJV 'translations'.

Which printings of the KJV should I look at to find those statements?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I used to be an avid gap theorist. When I first read it in my scofield bible as a teenager, I thought I finally hit the jackpot. I could answer everyone's questions about science that proved an old earth.


Then about 10 years ago I went to a creation museum. Did some study of the flood. and realized the flood in fact answers every scientific question. While maintaining an earth that is less than 10,000 years old.

I have since rejected Old Earth Theology. Including the gap theory.

I believe God is an all powerful God who speaks with his voice, and creates thing right then and their. That the earth was created for mankind. That God created the universe in an "Aged" or mature state so that man could use it.

I do not believe anymore. God created something, then needed to wait millions of years for it to mature and he can create something else..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Pardon me if I have misunderstood you, but you seem to be dismissing gap theorists as simply following false or errant teachers. For me, I basically became a gap theorist because when I read my Bible, I saw no indication that the events of the first few scriptures were at the same time, and there is much evidence, both biblical and scientific, that suggests the earth was around for a while before Adam. Later in my life, God introduced me to prophecy and a new fellowship and things that came up there via prophecy (tested of course) also confirmed this. So who are you to call gap theory a "bogus theory" when so many others seeking God and reading their Bibles have come to this very conclusion? Perhaps you were not aware of this, but please have a little humility not to so quickly dismiss the beliefs of others in the body of Christ. At the very least, respect that sometimes God gives different of His people different pieces of a puzzle, and they can seem to disagree until the whole truth is revealed. And all of us have errors and blind spots, so you would be wise to at least consider if you might yourself be mistaken.

what evidence do you have?

And what leads you to believe the events were not at the same time? Hebrew literature uses this type of writting all the time.

1. A general statement (And God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning, and the earth happened to be, to become, was in this state as without form and void (the beginning state)

2. A longer more in depth discussion of the process of creation. as in 7 days.

3. A more in depth study yet of one aspect of his creation (mankind)

Its one thing to agree to disagree. but we should be mocking each others beliefs..

 

[Nehemiah6]

So who are you to call gap theory a "bogus theory" when so many others seeking God and reading their Bibles have come to this very conclusion? Perhaps you were not aware of this, but please have a little humility not to so quickly dismiss the beliefs of others in the body of Christ.

Who am I? A Bible-believing Christian who has diligently studied the Word of God.

The Gap Theory is not only bogus but should be dismissed out of hand by Bible-believing Christians. So do you seriously believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God? If so believe this for starters:

1. NOTHING EXISTED BEFORE THIS EARH (AND THE UNIVERSE) WERE CREATED (Heb 11:3)
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. What does this verse reveal?
1. It is only through faith that we will believe the creation account given in Genesis by God. Gap theorists would rather trust man or the claims of evolution "scientists"/geologists.
2. "The worlds (plural) were framed" encompasses the whole universe, not just this earth.
3. "By the Word of God". God SPOKE the universe into existence. Indeed Jesus -- the eternal Word of God -- was assigned by God the Father to become the Creator (John 1:1). This automatically dismisses evolution or the Big Bang theory.
4. "Were made of things which do appear". This effectively states that nothing existed before creation (Genesis chapter 1). The may have existed only in the minds of God and Christ. It boggles the mind when we think of the intricate design of plants, animals, and man.

2. CREATION WAS LIMITED TO SIX DAYS
So if nothing existed before creation then everything was created in six literal 24-hour days. For the human mind this is incomprehensible. But for God, even one day would have sufficed . But He chose a six-day work week in anticipation of mankind's work week. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.(Gen 1:31; 2:1,2).

3. THOSE SEVEN DAYS WERE THE SAME AS AN ORDINARY WEEK
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

COCLUSIONS: THE EARTH IS NOT BILLIONS OR MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD. THERE WAS NO PRE-ADAMITE EARTH. THERE WAS NO LUCIFER ON ANY PLANET. HENCE THE GAP THEORY IS NONSENSE.

So how should one interpret Genesis 1:2? And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1. "Without form" -- not made into the global sphere with its precise properties. Just a solid mass (probably clay with no precise shape) surrounded by a deep covering of water ('the deep").
2. "Void" -- having absolutely no life forms *(which began to appear on day three as vegetation).
3. "Darkness" -- no cosmic light until day one. God creates both light and darkness. He chose to let darkness exist previously.

Only the triune God existed in eternity past. "I AM ALPHA". And God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all.

 

[GaryA]

I have read it... carefully.

But, apparently not carefully enough...

You are simply bypassing Scripture that you don't want to believe.

Nope - you are the one "bypassing" the plain-and-simple straight-forward truth displayed-for-all-to-see in the Ezekiel 28 passage - that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden before he fell.

By the time of Adam and Eve, Lucifer had ALREADY REBELLED against God in coveting God's Throne, which was Lucifer's original job to guard, as a covering cherub.

Where in the world do you get the idea that God gave Lucifer the "job" of "guarding" His throne?

I think you are getting some things "mixed up" in scripture.

I think you are "really stretching it" to come up with this idea.

So you're going to try and tell me that Lucifer was perfect in his ways and guarding God's Throne when he was tempting Eve to sin?

No - what I am saying is that the Ezekiel 28 passage shows us in no uncertain terms that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden before he fell.

So Lucifer when he tempted Adam and Eve, his status was the above descriptions?? Is that what you think, because it certainly is what you are saying.

No - that most certainly is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that the Ezekiel 28 passage shows us in no uncertain terms that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden before he fell.

Do you really think that "the above descriptions" apply to Lucifer after he fell?????

Do you really think God allowed Lucifer that "honor" and that "glory" after he fell?????

The Ezekiel 28 passage shows us in no uncertain terms that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden before he fell.

 

[Inquisitor]

I used to be an avid gap theorist. When I first read it in my scofield bible as a teenager, I thought I finally hit the jackpot. I could answer everyone's questions about science that proved an old earth.


Then about 10 years ago I went to a creation museum. Did some study of the flood. and realized the flood in fact answers every scientific question. While maintaining an earth that is less than 10,000 years old.

I have since rejected Old Earth Theology. Including the gap theory.

I believe God is an all powerful God who speaks with his voice, and creates thing right then and their. That the earth was created for mankind. That God created the universe in an "Aged" or mature state so that man could use it.

I do not believe anymore. God created something, then needed to wait millions of years for it to mature and he can create something else..

There is a wild card in the deck.

When God creates the universe, God is not creating the universe according to human timelines.

God is eternal and God can create anyway and any time, He chooses to.

The Genesis account is a summary that we can understand and a timeline that we can
comprehend.

Do not draw a line in the sand as that is just generating divisions in the church.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

There is a wild card in the deck.

When God creates the universe, God is not creating the universe according to human timelines.

God is eternal and God can create anyway and any time, He chooses to.

The Genesis account is a summary that we can understand and a timeline that we can
comprehend.

Do not draw a line in the sand as that is just generating divisions in the church.

It’s ok
God used human timelines
and the evening and morning were the first day

Even the sabbath shows us the timeline. For in 6 days….and on the seventh he rested.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

it doesn't imply that one is adding to the word of God to believe there was a period of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Day 1 began in Genesis 1:1, when the heaven and the earth were created.

I would suggest that Genesis 1:2 expounds upon Genesis 1:1, so depending upon how one interprets Genesis 1:1 will effect how they interpret Genesis 1:2. However, it won't extend the "day" which is defined by scripture as the period between the evening (darkness) and the morning (light). Just as the scripture of Genesis won't contradict the natural laws that are known and observed since they are established by virtue of the the physical world being created.

So in Genesis 1:1 you have the evening, being the darkness that appeared when the expanse of space was brought into existence. Thus, the first day concluded when the invisible light become visible, being the morning.

​

 

[John146]

Gap theorists would rather trust man or the claims of evolution "scientists"/geologists.

Where and why this statement? Evolution? I believe the gap theory but also a literal six day creation. They fit hand in hand, no evolution.

 

[DavyP]

But, apparently not carefully enough...


Nope - you are the one "bypassing" the plain-and-simple straight-forward truth displayed-for-all-to-see in the Ezekiel 28 passage - that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden before he fell.

Where in the world do you get the idea that God gave Lucifer the "job" of "guarding" His throne?

I'm not going to debate this person, brethren, but instead will prove his accusations are false.

The Ezekiel 28:13-12-19 verses where God used the "king of Tyrus" to represent Lucifer in a time in His Garden of Eden when Lucifer served God, before he rebelled, is simple. And that Scripture reveals what Lucifer's job was originally that God created him for. Just reading the Scripture as written shows this in simplicity...

Ezek 28:14-15
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV

That above was about Lucifer before he fell. That pattern with Lucifer as that "anointed cherub that covereth" is about his job of covering the Mercy Seat where God's Throne is. God gave the Israelites that pattern and told them to build an earthly version of it with the Ark of The Covenant. Anyone who had read Exodus 25 would know this...

Ex 25:17-20
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.

18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.

20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
KJV

Here is a representation of that Ark of The Covenant:

 

[John146]

Ezek 28:14-15
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV

Scripture defines the holy mountain of God…Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Never heard of this Gap theory ---what what a bunch of baloney ----

Talk about Satan duping people ----well this takes the Cake !

Oh C'mon!!! it's not anywhere as far fetched as the Roman Catholics, with their "Purgatory, the whole "Blessed virgin" garbage, or their denial or Biblical salvation!!!! or the LDS with their phony theology - HEY!! THAT'S SERIOUS!!!!

I learned the "Gap Theory" in Greenwood Baptist Church, Pasadena, Texas - back in '65, and it's STILL my "Working hypothesis" on creation. WE really have NO IDEA how many previous Creations happened on this dirt ball over the centuries, and that SOMETHING was going on previous to the "Adamic Creation" is clearly implied.

There was also the "Ice Shield Theory" taught at the same time, which I take with a grain of salt; during Adam's time, and through the entire ante-diluvian period, the entire earth was covered by a continuous Ice layer up in the stratosphere. this ice layer, filtered out the UV radiation, and explains the incredibly extended lifespans of the ante-diluvians up through Noah. It also supposedly p[rovided the water required to inundate the entire planet to the depths recorded. Anyway that was good Southern Baptist theology back in '65.

Something I'll ask about later, if I even have to (since "Time" in God's Kingdom works quite differently than it does for us). Could be we'll actually get to watch it all happen on the other side.