Loss of salvation???

[Genez]

Before he ate, Adam had no idea what death is.

But, Satan, listening in, did.

 

[homwardbound]

Even grace has "certain conditions".

To believe God consciously or not
Did Son take away all sin on that cross or not? John 19:30
Is Son risen? God is not God of the dead!
Believe God, receive truth from God not self or anyone else, and be new in, love and mercy to all also
God is faithful, the first born flesh is not, so God did what God did by Son once for us all
Hebrews 10:10 all are reconciled 2 Cor 5:17-20 now time to go to God personally from you in you and talk to God freely, since by God, God took away all sin but Unbelief to him in his risen Son for us in full belief, to be made new in God's Spirit and Truth, the Holy Spirit leading us, so we can rest from any worldly self works under Laws. Which does not mean one will take this grace for granted, actually will appreciate it and n be it, in it by God's done work of Son for them to just love
Hebrews 7:11-12, ask God for the new heart in Ezekiel 36:26

 

[Genez]

Even grace has "certain conditions".

One condition.

But He gives greater grace.
Therefore He says:

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”​

​

James 4:6

​

 

[homwardbound]

I've not misread nor misunderstood the Hebrews letter. It is possible to lose your salvation such as when you denounce Christ after having been enlightened and saved as the Hebrew letter clearly indicates.

Agreed anyone can denounce God after going after to understand and be wanting God, then give up, because of troubles as that parable of the farmer tells us all about the seed sowed
How many here, even me and you will continue even as Job did in the book of Job? Then deeper to a willing death once for all to have equal choice to believe God and be saved by God, even if you lose your child, or wife or house, and all the things people work hard for here on earth?
Can you lose everything here you have worked hard for? Are you willing as Jesus asked Father
Can there be any other way? Father said NO! Jesus replied nevertheless your will Father, not mine! And then went to that cross willingly, as thier was not need for him to sacrifice for any sin that he ever committed. None! Yet he did for us the people, God Farther is so in love with us. Amazing grace
Thanks
Born again for anyone is not handed to anyone as if God is a vending machine. Not seeing truth of born again until one goes through stuff and does not deny God over it all. then God reveals truth of what true born new is for you and you and me and all others that will not deny God or even second guess God see Born again and receive it and will not leave it/Once God reveals it. It is not just handed out to go and do wrong to anyone and stay forgiven,
Read Matt 18:24-35, Matthew 19, where Jesus tells his disciples after they asked him, how can anyone enter Heaven
Answer from Jesus, with man (Flesh) it is impossible, with my Father, God all is possible. He was talk got his on e time sacrifices for everyone to believe he is rosin nor or not and then receive this love and mercy to all, not just a few as choose to or not to as that is only what flesh nature, knows how to do.
Time to get born new by God for you, asking God not self or anyone else
This gift is amazing y'all, yet there are troubles first
Willing is the key to open the door of adversities, as evil does not go after its own and gives free things to those it is not troubles over. Goes after those that believe God sincerely to stop them from telling others of their truth
Matthew 5:17, John 19:30, Hebrews 9:14-17, Eph 1 :1-chapter 2

God loves us all, otherwise Jesus would not have replied nevertheless your will Father not mine

 

[homwardbound]

One condition.

But He gives greater grace.
Therefore He says:

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”​

​

James 4:6

​

Humility kicks out pride, we get to see it and be in, in it, trusting God all the way in the gift given us, thanks
Guilt and pride is all the enemy of God has got left and is using that in religion all over this world on the corners of walk, don't walk
Amazing grace frees believers from Sin and these simply love all, not a few as when first grew up in the flesh and blood, before seeing what god did and are now born again in God's spirit and Truth leading them, at least me now, thank you

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Christ is our savior for one and all times. If we sin and don't repent of the sin and ask forgiveness, we will answer for it in the judgement.

truly yet we must always look to Christ and the gospel for judgement

“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

surely God wouldnt teach his disciples to oit do his own mercy but maybe he’s giving us our own judgement we’ll face that day if we believe him ?

“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Alot of Christian’s would believe things like this and understand what he’s saying but often there comes another’s voice to explain why what Jesus the judge says isn’t the truth or doesn’t apply

what if our judgement can be extremely merciful or extremely strict based on how we treat others ?

““Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

what if we believed this and realized he already knows none of us are perfect and we all still need mercy and one of the many things he’s teaching us , is that if we are merciful to other people who he died for and lives when they do us wrong , we can expect that to be multiplied for ourself at judgement based in his declaration in the gospel we’re taught to believe ?

“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭NIV‬‬

if I’m a lawbreaker because I tell lies , and judge an adulterer it’s just one sinner judging another sinner guilty.

If we can’t forgive others it shows we don’t yet have a grasp on the spirit of Christ or aren’t able to follow the spirit yet

“When they came to the place called the Skull, they crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:33-34‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:46‬ ‭NIV‬

“Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭

 

[homwardbound]

truly yet we must always look to Christ and the gospel for judgement

“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

surely God wouldnt teach his disciples to oit do his own mercy but maybe he’s giving us our own judgement we’ll face that day if we believe him ?

“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Alot of Christian’s would believe things like this and understand what he’s saying but often there comes another’s voice to explain why what Jesus the judge says isn’t the truth or doesn’t apply

what if our judgement can be extremely merciful or extremely strict based on how we treat others ?

““Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

what if we believed this and realized he already knows none of us are perfect and we all still need mercy and one of the many things he’s teaching us , is that if we are merciful to other people who he died for and lives when they do us wrong , we can expect that to be multiplied for ourself at judgement based in his declaration in the gospel we’re taught to believe ?

“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭NIV‬‬

if I’m a lawbreaker because I tell lies , and judge an adulterer it’s just one sinner judging another sinner guilty.

If we can’t forgive others it shows we don’t yet have a grasp on the spirit of Christ or aren’t able to follow the spirit yet

“When they came to the place called the Skull, they crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:33-34‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:46‬ ‭NIV‬

“Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭

Therefore , no need to Judge or condemn anyone, God has and knows who are his and who will be if not seeing it yet. Amen
Amazing grace to appreciate, if one knows they need God
Yes, since we are reconciled by God through Son Jesus, it be time to be reconciled back in thanksgiving and praise to God seeing there is not law against love, and true love is 1 Cor 13:4-7, imputed in to us, those that believe God and will not deny God
Wow, woe is me as in Isaiah 6:1-7 tells me

 

[homwardbound]

truly yet we must always look to Christ and the gospel for judgement

I see presently not must, or have to or else
Rather a choice to choose, and be thankful in this truth, once anyone sees it is worth it, after going through troubles as in James 1 tells me about. A willingness, over a having to, has made a gigantic difference in my freedom given me by God for me and all others also, hoping for all to believe and go through any and all adversities and not deny God either

 

[Inquisitor]

“When you say that Gentiles are not under the the old covenant. Obviously, your referring to the Mosaic Covenant since Gentiles cannot be physically circumcised.”

well first what prevents a gentile from being circumcised ? The Old Testament allowed for gentiles to convert and be circumcised I don’t think you understand what I’m saying I hadn’t even mentioned circumcision bekng any reason for anything .

youll find what I’m talking about in Galatians three Paul explains it well

the gospel is Abraham’s covenant pertaining to all nations it was first announced to him in genesis chapter 12. Before the law was given to israel through Moses as thier specific covenant

what im saying is a covenant is whatever the word of the covenant says and it’s made with the people it is made with. So this covenant wasn’t made with gentiles but with Israelites is my point but specifically with the chrildren of isreal ( , jacob)

“These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭29:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭34:27‬ ‭

So my point is the old covenant made through Moses with israel of found here in Moses words in thier covenant law

“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people:

and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. ( those distinct fleshly people have now entered a covenant” an agreement “based on what the book of Moses law says to them then the lifeblood of animals that purchased that covenant according to those words is shed )

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point isn’t about circumcision the New Testament has its own true circumcision based on Jesus death and resurrection. It’s about the covenants themselves and the audiences for both you see how the old was spoken specifically to them ? The gospel is sent to all and is Gods covenant with mankind just as the old was his covenant with Israel which they broke

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m saying if god gave a covenant to israel its based on what it sa and is for who he made it with

and im saying God made a new covenant with israel and he then included gentiles in the audience that the covenant is made for and with . Whereas thenold requires one to convert to Judaism through circumcision and adherence to Moses law

“and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Galatians three paul explains all of this well it’s worth a good read and even a bit of a study of you believe Paul’s explainations I mean How the gospel came before the law then the law was given and it was broken and then after the law the gospel was fulfilled and that covenant came forth which is the true covenant and not this one which was added after because they sinned worshipping the calf

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law was only a bridge to the gospel dealing with man’s sin in between like a rough draft

“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure it creates the difficult questions rether than answering them Galatians theee I mean which is what I’m talking about .

as to John the Baptist he is the fulfillment of the ot prophecies of the last prophet of Israel before the messiah would arrive for instance

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John was soecifically preaching to Israel as was Jesus first.

It’s after they reject him that the same gospel is sent to everyone else

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Who John was preaching to doesn’t matter nor does circumcision to what I’m saying there are two covenants each is made with a specific people one with Israel’s children and descendants and the other with all creation all mankind of all nations beginning at Jerusalem and spreading to everyone else through the great commission to preach the gospel of the kingdom to all people and invite thoer belief in him

I agree with much of what you say.

Though the Abrahamic Covenant had a lineage and that was specific.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the lineage of the promise.

To be a member of the Abrahamic Covenant you had to be circumcised.

To be a member of the Mosaic Covenant, once again, same entry requirement.

That is why Acts 15 singles out circumcision and the law of Moses.

How many nations were the children of Abraham I have no idea. Though I would
lean towards many nations being blessed through God's promise to Abraham.

It matters who John was preaching to. The same as it matters who Jesus was
preaching to. We find in both cases that John and Jesus were sent only to Israel.

If you do not consider the context, the audience being addressed, then one would
basically be teaching a baptism of repentance. With a touch of Jesus thrown in.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not really about a baptism of repentance for eternal life.
Which some folk teach, rather the gospel of Jesus Christ is eternal life granted as a gift.
Given for the simple act of believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
(Romans 10:9)

Where the confusion occurs is melding John, the law, and the gospel together, or parts
thereof. By grace through faith is what Paul said and not repentance and Jesus, the gospel
comes first and is the instrument that saves.

Then the Christian life follows from the acceptance of the gospel.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Therefore , no need to Judge or condemn anyone, God has and knows who are his and who will be if not seeing it yet. Amen
Amazing grace to appreciate, if one knows they need God
Yes, since we are reconciled by God through Son Jesus, it be time to be reconciled back in thanksgiving and praise to God seeing there is not law against love, and true love is 1 Cor 13:4-7, imputed in to us, those that believe God and will not deny God
Wow, woe is me as in Isaiah 6:1-7 tells me

“To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.””
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭

“Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭

“Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

““I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-3, 6, 9-14‬ ‭

“You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:13-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?

Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-19‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction;

whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-10‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree with much of what you say.

Though the Abrahamic Covenant had a lineage and that was specific.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the lineage of the promise.

To be a member of the Abrahamic Covenant you had to be circumcised.

To be a member of the Mosaic Covenant, once again, same entry requirement.

That is why Acts 15 singles out circumcision and the law of Moses.

How many nations were the children of Abraham I have no idea. Though I would
lean towards many nations being blessed through God's promise to Abraham.

It matters who John was preaching to. The same as it matters who Jesus was
preaching to. We find in both cases that John and Jesus were sent only to Israel.

If you do not consider the context, the audience being addressed, then one would
basically be teaching a baptism of repentance. With a touch of Jesus thrown in.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not really about a baptism of repentance for eternal life.
Which some folk teach, rather the gospel of Jesus Christ is eternal life granted as a gift.
Given for the simple act of believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
(Romans 10:9)

Where the confusion occurs is melding John, the law, and the gospel together, or parts
thereof. By grace through faith is what Paul said and not repentance and Jesus, the gospel
comes first and is the instrument that saves.

Then the Christian life follows from the acceptance of the gospel.

regarding corcumcision it’s not gone it is now revealed in truth to Christian’s we have a circumcision also

“In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, ( remission of sins in his death ) in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭NIV‬‬

the only thing that actually makes a person an hier of aBrahmans covenant

“The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. ( Abraham’s seed ) There is neither Jew ( circumcised ) nor Gentile, ( uncircumcised)neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The works they did like circumcising thier genitals weren’t sufficient but only shadows of when Christ would remove man’s flesh through baptism into his name and his circumcision of the flesh tbat fights against our spirit

“Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died ( in baptism ) has been set free from sin.

…In the same way, count yourselves ( who were baptized ) dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness,

but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7, 11-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Through baptism for remission of sins in Christ Jesus our sins are our for by his death which is the price of sin. Baptism is the truth of circumcision because remember

The Old Testament is an earthly pattern of the new which is spirit and truth. “ In Christ “ has pretty significant meaning baptism , communion , prayer ect is all done in his name healings and power came through his name

“Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:29-30‬ ‭NIV‬‬


the idea is that Jesus was an Israelite born under law and was circumcised the eighth day , that fulfills the requirements of the law and circumcision of we are baptized in his name. Because we’re taking upon ourselves him the seed of Abraham ms promise


There are two covenants made with Abraham one is according to flesh and the earth and lead to the nation of Israel’s covenant which they broke

the other promise to Abraham was heavenly and of Christ the seed of Gods promise for salvation and was for all people of the earth. Isaac was an earthly figure offered for faith

“And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s about Christ the promise came after Abraham offered Isaac in faith the promise was answered when zgod offered Jesus his only son to be fill the covenant promises

Abraham had two sons representing each covenant one is earthly on is heavenly one is old and one is new one is legitimate hier the other is a castaway. From Abraham’s inheritance

“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;

the one ( covenant ) from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar…..

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman ( old covenant ) shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. ( new covenant ) So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, ( old covenant ) but of the free.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:22-24, 30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice Abram the Hebrew was promised a great nation with twelve princes

But Abraham the father of many nations was promised the earth and stars and beyond

“And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram,

but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when he died he wasn’t the father of many nations that happens through the gospel all nations become aBrahmans offspring through Christ and this hiers of his covenant promise not the old of the land but the new of the heavens above where Christ is seated on his throne

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I see presently not must, or have to or else
Rather a choice to choose, and be thankful in this truth, once anyone sees it is worth it, after going through troubles as in James 1 tells me about. A willingness, over a having to, has made a gigantic difference in my freedom given me by God for me and all others also, hoping for all to believe and go through any and all adversities and not deny God either

I don’t understand brother what your saying

 

[Jimbone]

Man I honestly do not understand why people feel the need to debate so hard for the weakness of God. I mean this mission to declare Gods power is something we can just walk away from is just beyond me. The only people that I feel can make this argument are people who have not truly experienced the REAL power of God. If you think that you can walk away from Jesus and the truth of what God does when He resurrects our spirits and reconciles it to His, just cannot have actually been confronted with that power in truth.

Even when I was first born again and I also started down this "lose salvation" road, I did have a misunderstanding that drove it. I thought to myself "self, how can I have free will and freely choose Jesus and be born again, and then be made a captive"? It made no sense to me that I was free to choose Jesus, but now I'm not free to choose to walk away from Him? This just didn't mesh in my head at all. But the Spirit lead me to the truth. The truth is that I didn't "choose" Him, and it was not my "choice" that saved me. When I was hitting my knees in repentance it was after 5 years of thinking I was saved when I wasn't.

I thought I was a Christian and in the trial I was enduring at that moment was not helped at all by God or Jesus. I had pretty much relegated them to a nice idea, but no longer thought either was real at all anymore. I hit my knees not crying out His name, but crying "I can't do this anymore". This was Him granting me repentance, I did nothing but break. I know now that He did this for a reason, but at that time I had no idea what had even happen. It was lunch the next day that He reveled Himself to me fully. It was lunchtime the next day at work when it hit me like a ton of bricks, after two solid years of uncontrollable suicidal thoughts every 5 minutes of every day I realized, "I haven't thought about killing myself all day!!!!" It was this moment I KNEW that whatever this was it was from God and I KNEW Jesus was His Son.

So I didn't choose anything in the first place, and as His Spirit guided me and I read as I grew I read Jesus saying that we are slaves of sin or slaves of Him. Even when I was thinking we could lose salvation I always qualified it like "I believe we can choose to walk away from Him, I could never do it and don't see how anyone could, but I believe we have the choice to". Just nonsense like that. So I guess I do understand why some believe this, but when you're trying to sell this idea that you can lose something God gives us for a purpose, you are arguing for a weak, unsure, confused God that really seems to have no clue what He's doing.

God draws us, He saves us, and He keeps us, we are to just do our best to glorify Him in gratitude. Brothers and sisters please rethink this idea that we have ANYTHING at all to do with any of it, and praise His name we don't, all glory and credit is His and teaching that we can lose the GRACE He's given us is a lie. He does not put the burden on us, He does not put us on heavens probation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Therefore , no need to Judge or condemn anyone, God has and knows who are his and who will be if not seeing it yet. Amen
Amazing grace to appreciate, if one knows they need God
Yes, since we are reconciled by God through Son Jesus, it be time to be reconciled back in thanksgiving and praise to God seeing there is not law against love, and true love is 1 Cor 13:4-7, imputed in to us, those that believe God and will not deny God
Wow, woe is me as in Isaiah 6:1-7 tells me

“Therefore , no need to Judge or condemn “

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

Man I honestly do not understand why people feel the need to debate so hard for the weakness of God. I mean this mission to declare Gods power is something we can just walk away from is just beyond me. The only people that I feel can make this argument are people who have not truly experienced the REAL power of God. If you think that you can walk away from Jesus and the truth of what God does when He resurrects our spirits and reconciles it to His, just cannot have actually been confronted with that power in truth.

Even when I was first born again and I also started down this "lose salvation" road, I did have a misunderstanding that drove it. I thought to myself "self, how can I have free will and freely choose Jesus and be born again, and then be made a captive"? It made no sense to me that I was free to choose Jesus, but now I'm not free to choose to walk away from Him? This just didn't mesh in my head at all. But the Spirit lead me to the truth. The truth is that I didn't "choose" Him, and it was not my "choice" that saved me. When I was hitting my knees in repentance it was after 5 years of thinking I was saved when I wasn't.

I thought I was a Christian and in the trial I was enduring at that moment was not helped at all by God or Jesus. I had pretty much relegated them to a nice idea, but no longer thought either was real at all anymore. I hit my knees not crying out His name, but crying "I can't do this anymore". This was Him granting me repentance, I did nothing but break. I know now that He did this for a reason, but at that time I had no idea what had even happen. It was lunch the next day that He reveled Himself to me fully. It was lunchtime the next day at work when it hit me like a ton of bricks, after two solid years of uncontrollable suicidal thoughts every 5 minutes of every day I realized, "I haven't thought about killing myself all day!!!!" It was this moment I KNEW that whatever this was it was from God and I KNEW Jesus was His Son.

So I didn't choose anything in the first place, and as His Spirit guided me and I read as I grew I read Jesus saying that we are slaves of sin or slaves of Him. Even when I was thinking we could lose salvation I always qualified it like "I believe we can choose to walk away from Him, I could never do it and don't see how anyone could, but I believe we have the choice to". Just nonsense like that. So I guess I do understand why some believe this, but when you're trying to sell this idea that you can lose something God gives us for a purpose, you are arguing for a weak, unsure, confused God that really seems to have no clue what He's doing.

God draws us, He saves us, and He keeps us, we are to just do our best to glorify Him in gratitude. Brothers and sisters please rethink this idea that we have ANYTHING at all to do with any of it, and praise His name we don't, all glory and credit is His and teaching that we can lose the GRACE He's given us is a lie. He does not put the burden on us, He does not put us on heavens probation.

Jesus’ words in John 6:65

 

[Magenta]

Man I honestly do not understand why people feel the need to debate so hard for the weakness of God. I mean this mission to declare Gods power is something we can just walk away from is just beyond me. The only people that I feel can make this argument are people who have not truly experienced the REAL power of God. If you think that you can walk away from Jesus and the truth of what God does when He resurrects our spirits and reconciles it to His, just cannot have actually been confronted with that power in truth.

Even when I was first born again and I also started down this "lose salvation" road, I did have a misunderstanding that drove it. I thought to myself "self, how can I have free will and freely choose Jesus and be born again, and then be made a captive"? It made no sense to me that I was free to choose Jesus, but now I'm not free to choose to walk away from Him? This just didn't mesh in my head at all. But the Spirit lead me to the truth. The truth is that I didn't "choose" Him, and it was not my "choice" that saved me. When I was hitting my knees in repentance it was after 5 years of thinking I was saved when I wasn't.

I thought I was a Christian and in the trial I was enduring at that moment was not helped at all by God or Jesus. I had pretty much relegated them to a nice idea, but no longer thought either was real at all anymore. I hit my knees not crying out His name, but crying "I can't do this anymore". This was Him granting me repentance, I did nothing but break. I know now that He did this for a reason, but at that time I had no idea what had even happen. It was lunch the next day that He reveled Himself to me fully. It was lunchtime the next day at work when it hit me like a ton of bricks, after two solid years of uncontrollable suicidal thoughts every 5 minutes of every day I realized, "I haven't thought about killing myself all day!!!!" It was this moment I KNEW that whatever this was it was from God and I KNEW Jesus was His Son.

So I didn't choose anything in the first place, and as His Spirit guided me and I read as I grew I read Jesus saying that we are slaves of sin or slaves of Him. Even when I was thinking we could lose salvation I always qualified it like "I believe we can choose to walk away from Him, I could never do it and don't see how anyone could, but I believe we have the choice to". Just nonsense like that. So I guess I do understand why some believe this, but when you're trying to sell this idea that you can lose something God gives us for a purpose, you are arguing for a weak, unsure, confused God that really seems to have no clue what He's doing.

God draws us, He saves us, and He keeps us, we are to just do our best to glorify Him in gratitude. Brothers and sisters please rethink this idea that we have ANYTHING at all to do with any of it, and praise His name we don't, all glory and credit is His and teaching that we can lose the GRACE He's given us is a lie. He does not put the burden on us, He does not put us on heavens probation.

I hear you... It seems to be the meat of God's word that many cannot accept. No one can come unless God draws them and those He draws WILL come. We did not choose Him... He chose us. Not by the will or power of man, but by God's... due to His great everlasting love and mercy.

 

[homwardbound]

I agree with much of what you say.

Though the Abrahamic Covenant had a lineage and that was specific.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the lineage of the promise.

To be a member of the Abrahamic Covenant you had to be circumcised.

To be a member of the Mosaic Covenant, once again, same entry requirement.

That is why Acts 15 singles out circumcision and the law of Moses.

How many nations were the children of Abraham I have no idea. Though I would
lean towards many nations being blessed through God's promise to Abraham.

It matters who John was preaching to. The same as it matters who Jesus was
preaching to. We find in both cases that John and Jesus were sent only to Israel.

If you do not consider the context, the audience being addressed, then one would
basically be teaching a baptism of repentance. With a touch of Jesus thrown in.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not really about a baptism of repentance for eternal life.
Which some folk teach, rather the gospel of Jesus Christ is eternal life granted as a gift.
Given for the simple act of believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
(Romans 10:9)

Where the confusion occurs is melding John, the law, and the gospel together, or parts
thereof. By grace through faith is what Paul said and not repentance and Jesus, the gospel
comes first and is the instrument that saves.

Then the Christian life follows from the acceptance of the gospel.

I agree with much of what you say.

Though the Abrahamic Covenant had a lineage and that was specific.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the lineage of the promise.

To be a member of the Abrahamic Covenant you had to be circumcised.

To be a member of the Mosaic Covenant, once again, same entry requirement.

That is why Acts 15 singles out circumcision and the law of Moses.

How many nations were the children of Abraham I have no idea. Though I would
lean towards many nations being blessed through God's promise to Abraham.

It matters who John was preaching to. The same as it matters who Jesus was
preaching to. We find in both cases that John and Jesus were sent only to Israel.

If you do not consider the context, the audience being addressed, then one would
basically be teaching a baptism of repentance. With a touch of Jesus thrown in.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not really about a baptism of repentance for eternal life.
Which some folk teach, rather the gospel of Jesus Christ is eternal life granted as a gift.
Given for the simple act of believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
(Romans 10:9)

Where the confusion occurs is melding John, the law, and the gospel together, or parts
thereof. By grace through faith is what Paul said and not repentance and Jesus, the gospel
comes first and is the instrument that saves.

Then the Christian life follows from the acceptance of the gospel.

naturally, law and grace do not mix in a glass, just sitting still. Seal it, shake it up, the two appear mixed, once settled down, resting the two separate and is easily seen as do not naturally mix.
such as it is between God (oil) and water (flesh)
see now what getting excited does to us?
pride is what the enemy of God wants, if can’t get pride then goes after guilt, either way, it is to keep us out of the true love and mercy of God for us through Son to us. Enemy is defeated, now flesh first birth of flesh and blood being defeated, is defeated, just not seen by many still. Hebrews 1

I don’t understand brother what your saying

under Law, I must do is the curse to the flesh nature, that flesh can’t do perfectly ever. Which is why God sent Son to take our deserved death place. To then give us new life in the risen life of Son Jesus, and no longer be under Law. Now in the law of liberty to learn new.
and then agree with God, God only knows the best for each of us personally. Having a relationship with God and you personally, thus one being new can’t harm anyone, even if struggling with wanting to, just cant when the rubber hits the road.
at least this I now see to not be under law that brought out sin in me. Standing in this amazing grace given me and everyone else too. Trusting Father to sort it all out as in Romans 14 tells me about trust

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Man I honestly do not understand why people feel the need to debate so hard for the weakness of God. I mean this mission to declare Gods power is something we can just walk away from is just beyond me. The only people that I feel can make this argument are people who have not truly experienced the REAL power of God. If you think that you can walk away from Jesus and the truth of what God does when He resurrects our spirits and reconciles it to His, just cannot have actually been confronted with that power in truth.

Even when I was first born again and I also started down this "lose salvation" road, I did have a misunderstanding that drove it. I thought to myself "self, how can I have free will and freely choose Jesus and be born again, and then be made a captive"? It made no sense to me that I was free to choose Jesus, but now I'm not free to choose to walk away from Him? This just didn't mesh in my head at all. But the Spirit lead me to the truth. The truth is that I didn't "choose" Him, and it was not my "choice" that saved me. When I was hitting my knees in repentance it was after 5 years of thinking I was saved when I wasn't.

I thought I was a Christian and in the trial I was enduring at that moment was not helped at all by God or Jesus. I had pretty much relegated them to a nice idea, but no longer thought either was real at all anymore. I hit my knees not crying out His name, but crying "I can't do this anymore". This was Him granting me repentance, I did nothing but break. I know now that He did this for a reason, but at that time I had no idea what had even happen. It was lunch the next day that He reveled Himself to me fully. It was lunchtime the next day at work when it hit me like a ton of bricks, after two solid years of uncontrollable suicidal thoughts every 5 minutes of every day I realized, "I haven't thought about killing myself all day!!!!" It was this moment I KNEW that whatever this was it was from God and I KNEW Jesus was His Son.

So I didn't choose anything in the first place, and as His Spirit guided me and I read as I grew I read Jesus saying that we are slaves of sin or slaves of Him. Even when I was thinking we could lose salvation I always qualified it like "I believe we can choose to walk away from Him, I could never do it and don't see how anyone could, but I believe we have the choice to". Just nonsense like that. So I guess I do understand why some believe this, but when you're trying to sell this idea that you can lose something God gives us for a purpose, you are arguing for a weak, unsure, confused God that really seems to have no clue what He's doing.

God draws us, He saves us, and He keeps us, we are to just do our best to glorify Him in gratitude. Brothers and sisters please rethink this idea that we have ANYTHING at all to do with any of it, and praise His name we don't, all glory and credit is His and teaching that we can lose the GRACE He's given us is a lie. He does not put the burden on us, He does not put us on heavens probation.

“Man I honestly do not understand why people feel the need to debate so hard for the weakness of God. “

Accepting what the Bible clearly says is an argument for the weakness of God ?

“If we willingly keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

..How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27, 29-31‬ ‭NIV‬‬

you saying this kind of thing is an argument for gods weakness ?

“It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.

But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

And don’t understand wby Paul taught this in his epistles ?

“The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

There’s a reason he taught it in his epistles

Paul taught that stuff in his epistles to the church because he didn’t want anyone distorting the rest of what he said into the hypergrace doctrine that is a reason why no one needs to listen to God and his way of salvation.

He didn’t want anyone taking a sentance from his letter like this

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭NIV‬‬

He didn’t want anyone taking that in order to omit anything else so he tempered it with this later in the same epistle to the same people

But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭

We aren’t supposed to take one sentance and then reject the rest of what he taught grace isnt the rhknf that omits the rest it’s the thing that changes us and teaches us the right ways to go while we wait for Jesus I do t think believing what Jesus taught and his apostles is an argument for weakness of God

If we really accept the New Testament doctrine throughout …we find that the tbe idea in the world right now about “ unconditional grace “ isnt what the Bible teaches about grace.

It’s being used as a constant reason to reject what the Bible says to people about salvation and says if we believe we’ll be saved

abut then someone says “ grace you alrready saved !” That other stuff jesus and his apostles taught …..is false now none of it actually applies and won’t save you

dont think you need to do anything Jesus or his aposltes taught us to do ect hypergrace removes what agod really said about being saved is the issue with it it believes a couple things he said the rest it just erases even if he’s talking about salvstion or forgiveness hypergrace rejexts what the savior taught because he was teaching his followers what to do how to treat other people in life

“Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. Do everything without grumbling or arguing,”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s ok for us to study the Bible and accept what it says

id say if “ Grace “ is teaching us to reject the doctrine of God we may have an issue somewhere in our thoughts and should listen to the things Jesus taught in the gospel and believe that stuff and follow it

I’m just talking about biblically what he said and his apostles said in scripture tho I don’t think not makes God weak tho I didn’t get that part

The reason people talk about repentance is because that’s me of the things he and his apostles taught

grace should teach us stuff if it’s coming from the gospel but if it’s the reason we won’t accept the things Jesus taught in the gospel about salvation I don’t think it’s from God

 

[Pilgrimshope]

naturally, law and grace do not mix in a glass, just sitting still. Seal it, shake it up, the two appear mixed, once settled down, resting the two separate and is easily seen as do not naturally mix.
such as it is between God (oil) and water (flesh)
see now what getting excited does to us?
pride is what the enemy of God wants, if can’t get pride then goes after guilt, either way, it is to keep us out of the true love and mercy of God for us through Son to us. Enemy is defeated, now flesh first birth of flesh and blood being defeated, is defeated, just not seen by many still. Hebrews 1


under Law, I must do is the curse to the flesh nature, that flesh can’t do perfectly ever. Which is why God sent Son to take our deserved death place. To then give us new life in the risen life of Son Jesus, and no longer be under Law. Now in the law of liberty to learn new.
and then agree with God, God only knows the best for each of us personally. Having a relationship with God and you personally, thus one being new can’t harm anyone, even if struggling with wanting to, just cant when the rubber hits the road.
at least this I now see to not be under law that brought out sin in me. Standing in this amazing grace given me and everyone else too. Trusting Father to sort it all out as in Romans 14 tells me about trust

Yea we need to have a relationship with God for sure brother. And need to trust him. I think this means that we should listen to what he taught in the gospel and believe that and then follow after him as we’re able and as he allows us to learn and grow

often we hear him saying something in the gospel our flesh doesn’t want to hear like this

“I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The Flesh don’t want to hear it ….

“In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with righteousness by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

many don’t want to hear it

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

But many don’t want to hear that stuff it makes them uncomfortable so it can’t change thier heart through faith believing if they won’t allow it in and to be true

The reason we can’t neglect that oart is because it’s true and repentance is where everyone needs to come to


Jesus taught

“But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

“I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

as we allow what he really said even the stuff that requires of us it changes us by faith

 

[Lamar]

One condition.

But He gives greater grace.
Therefore He says:

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”​

​

James 4:6

​

God's condition.

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant.

But He took back the grace given to His servant.
Therefore He says:

“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
​

Matthew 18:21-35
​