Could earth be the center of the universe?

[tedincarolina]

Hey folks, just another beautiful day in the foothills of South Carolina and I was reading an article concerning new theories concerning the universe.

Studies by very, very great scientific minds have concluded that the universe is expanding outward. Can we theoretically reverse the expansion process on paper and bring it all back in to the place where it must have started if it is expanding. That, of course, depends on my very limited knowledge or ability to even discern knowledge on the matter. But it would seem that, much like the rings of a ripple when you drop a pebble in a body of water, if you could stop and theoretically reverse the travel of the ripple, you would find yourself at the place where the pebble went into the water.

If this theory is true, then where might any of you believe that following the expansion of the universe back to where, and even when, it began its expansion process, would leave us?

How Science Suggests God May Have Created the Universe (msn.com)

I think it's about the 9th panel in the article that discusses the expanding universe worked out by Georges Lemaître. That Einstein chastised himself for holding to the static universe theory for which he had created a constant. Pretty amazing stuff when you read of supposed scientific theories that could support the story that God has told us. And they print it right out in the open for everyone to read. God can do the impossible my brothers and sisters.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The James Webb telescope is changing what they thought they knew about the universe. rapidly. They’ve even began to question the Big Bang theory

 

[presidente]

Hey folks, just another beautiful day in the foothills of South Carolina and I was reading an article concerning new theories concerning the universe.

Studies by very, very great scientific minds have concluded that the universe is expanding outward. Can we theoretically reverse the expansion process on paper and bring it all back in to the place where it must have started if it is expanding. That, of course, depends on my very limited knowledge or ability to even discern knowledge on the matter. But it would seem that, much like the rings of a ripple when you drop a pebble in a body of water, if you could stop and theoretically reverse the travel of the ripple, you would find yourself at the place where the pebble went into the water.

If this theory is true, then where might any of you believe that following the expansion of the universe back to where, and even when, it began its expansion process, would leave us?

How Science Suggests God May Have Created the Universe (msn.com)

I think it's about the 9th panel in the article that discusses the expanding universe worked out by Georges Lemaître. That Einstein chastised himself for holding to the static universe theory for which he had created a constant. Pretty amazing stuff when you read of supposed scientific theories that could support the story that God has told us. And they print it right out in the open for everyone to read. God can do the impossible my brothers and sisters.

God bless,
Ted

If all motion is relative, then the geocentric model works, too. The math to calculation positions of planets is just more complicated I suppose. (Calculating such things is not my thing.)


I did see a documentary that said the galaxies in the universe appeared to be arranged along concentric circles around ours.

 

[Eli1]

Hey folks, just another beautiful day in the foothills of South Carolina and I was reading an article concerning new theories concerning the universe.

Studies by very, very great scientific minds have concluded that the universe is expanding outward. Can we theoretically reverse the expansion process on paper and bring it all back in to the place where it must have started if it is expanding. That, of course, depends on my very limited knowledge or ability to even discern knowledge on the matter. But it would seem that, much like the rings of a ripple when you drop a pebble in a body of water, if you could stop and theoretically reverse the travel of the ripple, you would find yourself at the place where the pebble went into the water.

If this theory is true, then where might any of you believe that following the expansion of the universe back to where, and even when, it began its expansion process, would leave us?

How Science Suggests God May Have Created the Universe (msn.com)

I think it's about the 9th panel in the article that discusses the expanding universe worked out by Georges Lemaître. That Einstein chastised himself for holding to the static universe theory for which he had created a constant. Pretty amazing stuff when you read of supposed scientific theories that could support the story that God has told us. And they print it right out in the open for everyone to read. God can do the impossible my brothers and sisters.

God bless,
Ted

Great topic Ted.
First of all this is why the Universe is not 6000 years old and secondly, to your question, there is no center because we can't figure out the edge. We appear lost in "infinity".
It's a wonderful marvel which has all the signatures of a Creator with some main features like The Fine-Tuning argument and Miracles.
All science does is glorifies the work of the Creator and actually supports the Bible so you have nothing to fear from this knowledge Ted when you look with your eyes and hear with your ears.

 

[tedincarolina]

First of all this is why the Universe is not 6000 years old and secondly, to your question, there is no center because we can't figure out the edge. We appear lost in "infinity".

Hi @Eli1

So, if no one can figure out the edge, on what basis can you definitively say that the earth is not in the center of the expanding universe? And we are not lost in infinity. We are where we are for a perfect purpose... trust me on that.

And how you see that somehow explains away the possibility of a 6-10k year created realm in which we live, is quite beyond me also. However, I will admit that I have no professional knowledge or training on the subject of the universe and stars and all that makes up this realm in which we live, there is a testimony from someone that I believe was here and does know. He seems to describe, although no His word does not actually say that He stood upon the earth and cast the heavens around the earth, the entire account seems to be earth centric. The earth was the first celestial body in all of the vast expanse that we see today and refer to as space.

Have you ever read any of Frank Peretti's work? His "Piercing the Darkness" and "This Present Darkness" explain pretty much how I see the reality of our existence and all that surrounds us.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Eli1]

Hi @Eli1

So, if no one can figure out the edge, on what basis can you definitively say that the earth is not in the center of the expanding universe? And we are not lost in infinity. We are where we are for a perfect purpose... trust me on that.

And how you see that somehow explains away the possibility of a 6-10k year created realm in which we live, is quite beyond me also. However, I will admit that I have no professional knowledge or training on the subject of the universe and stars and all that makes up this realm in which we live, there is a testimony from someone that I believe was here and does know. He seems to describe, although no His word does not actually say that He stood upon the earth and cast the heavens around the earth, the entire account seems to be earth centric. The earth was the first celestial body in all of the vast expanse that we see today and refer to as space.

Have you ever read any of Frank Peretti's work? His "Piercing the Darkness" and "This Present Darkness" explain pretty much how I see the reality of our existence and all that surrounds us.

God bless,
Ted

Ted, all i ask you then is to "trust me" on this. Because Science supports the Bible, that's all it does. Science is not this thing which sits out there alone which opposes God. No. Science is people like you and me who have dedicated their lives to understand the mechanics of how everything works in our universe and in turn they reveal the glory of our Creator.

And to answer one of your questions which you might be able to relate.
How can you know the center of your house if you don't know where the walls of your house are?
That's why we don't know the center of the universe either.

 

[tedincarolina]

If all motion is relative, then the geocentric model works, too. The math to calculation positions of planets is just more complicated I suppose. (Calculating such things is not my thing.)


I did see a documentary that said the galaxies in the universe appeared to be arranged along concentric circles around ours.

Hey @presidente

Right. I'm not making any claim that it is, but it is possible that the earth was, as the Scriptures describe, the first physical form in all of the black inkiness that is the space surrounding us. The emptiness. God created the earth. He spoke it to exist and at the moment that it came to exist it was covered with water and spinning on an axis. Then God does some other things to prepare the earth, but there is no mention of any other bodies in all of the universe until it speaks of God also creating all of them, on day four. The earth merely sat in space spinning and being molded by God to become a habitable place for man to live. Then He turns His attention to creating the heavens, which His word tells us declare His glory.

Now, what I'm proposing is that at this point on day four when God created the other heavenly bodies, that they were somehow flung or grew out from an earth centric point. Now that doesn't necessarily mean 'from the center point of the sphere of the earth', but rather from the area of this solar system. But certainly no reason that it couldn't have begun from some point several thousand miles or whatever from the very earth center of the universe.

I think it's a reasonable explanation.

God bless,
Ted

 

[tedincarolina]

Because Science supports the Bible, that's all it does. Science is not this thing which sits out there alone which opposes God. No. Science is people like you and me who have dedicated their lives to understand the mechanics of how everything works in our universe and in turn they reveal the glory of our Creator.

Hey @Eli1

Ok, and that says what? I don't have any problem with science, as a methodology from which we can make determinations as to how things work. However, there's not a scientist that I know that was alive when the earth was created. Whether that creation was momentary or ages and ages for a cloud of dust to become 'the earth'. Whether it is a body cast off from the explosion of some other space body or it was taken out of another plane of existence to where it is. The body of rock and dirt and magma and all that makes this huge solid ball on which our feet stand throughout our lives, either has existed forever or it was created.

God's word tells me that it was created and pretty much when it was created. I believe him. And yes, I know that science tells me that's a foolish position. That everybody knows that's not the truth. But I believe God. He sent His Son to die for me. I don't have any reason whatsoever not to believe every word of His testimony to me.

Now yes, I know you've got ages of rocks determined and you've got holes in the ice sheets and light speed calculations that absolutely deny that what I believe about what God's word is revealing to me is not the truth. Sorry, friend. I'm going with God. He's the judge and He's told me how He did it. I believe Him.

But each one must decide on their own, and I would hope with the help of the Holy Spirit, on the matter if they so care to look into it.


God bless,
Ted

 

[Eli1]

Hey @Eli1

Ok, and that says what? I don't have any problem with science, as a methodology from which we can make determinations as to how things work. However, there's not a scientist that I know that was alive when the earth was created. Whether that creation was momentary or ages and ages for a cloud of dust to become 'the earth'. Whether it is a body cast off from the explosion of some other space body or it was taken out of another plane of existence to where it is. The body of rock and dirt and magma and all that makes this huge solid ball on which our feet stand throughout our lives, either has existed forever or it was created.

God's word tells me that it was created and pretty much when it was created. I believe him. And yes, I know that science tells me that's a foolish position. That everybody knows that's not the truth. But I believe God. He sent His Son to die for me. I don't have any reason whatsoever not to believe every word of His testimony to me.

Now yes, I know you've got ages of rocks determined and you've got holes in the ice sheets and light speed calculations that absolutely deny that what I believe about what God's word is revealing to me is not the truth. Sorry, friend. I'm going with God. He's the judge and He's told me how He did it. I believe Him.

But each one must decide on their own, and I would hope with the help of the Holy Spirit, on the matter if they so care to look into it.


God bless,
Ted

My friend, there is no doubt that the universe shows the work for the Creator, this is what science has reveled and keeps reveling so far, again supporting the Bible. You have said a lot of confusing things up there in relation to some of the mechanics but it's okay with me but may not be okay with someone else.
What we are arguing here is HOW? Because i have no doubt that God has put us here. This is more about how you communicate to an atheist for example.
I keep going to communication again.
I mean if i don't know something i say "i don't know". I believe, i have absolute unshakable faith but i don't know how some things work. It's impossible to know. We will know only if and when God reveals them to us. So for everything that we see and measure, the HOW questions becomes even more complicated which in-turn reveals the glory of God even more which tell us "you will never know everything which is why you need faith".
But, i don't reject my sight either when i measure that a rock is old or that light is 13 billions old when it reaches my telescope.
This is why, again, denominations exist and why different interpretations exist. So, use it in discernment in relation to your audience like Paul did in Greece.

 

[tedincarolina]

My friend, there is no doubt that the universe shows the work for the Creator, this is what science has reveled and keeps reveling so far, again supporting the Bible. You have said a lot of confusing things up there in relation to some of the mechanics but it's okay with me but may not be okay with someone else.
What we are arguing here is HOW? Because i have no doubt that God has put us here. This is more about how you communicate to an atheist for example.
I keep going to communication again.
I mean if i don't know something i say "i don't know". I believe, i have absolute unshakable faith but i don't know how some things work. It's impossible to know. We will know only if and when God reveals them to us. So for everything that we see and measure, the HOW questions becomes even more complicated which in-turn reveals the glory of God even more which tell us "you will never know everything which is why you need faith".
But, i don't reject my sight either when i measure that a rock is old or that light is 13 billions old when it reaches my telescope.
This is why, again, denominations exist and why different interpretations exist. So, use it in discernment in relation to your audience like Paul did in Greece.

Hi @Eli1

Yes, I hear all of that. You really can't possibly believe that you're the first person to tell me that 'how' God seems to have simply described the days of His creating this realm in which we live is just not the way it was done... science has proven so!

Right. I get it. But you know what I know?

Several thousand years ago, there was a night in which people upon the earth lived, that every first born of man and animal died in that night. In that short little 8-10 hours of one night, an entire city of people woke up where the first born was dead of every family and of all the cattle. Do you know how impossible that is? Any idea how impossible it would be that among thousands upon thousands of people, in one night, all the firstborn of both man and cattle lay dead the next day. It's just mind bogglingly impossible. Yet God's word says that it happened.

Several thousand years ago, over the span of just more than a month, the entire globe was flooded. That a being who calls Himself God claims to have opened the springs of the deep and flooded the entire earth. Now, I'll bet you that your science tells you that's impossible, too.

Again, several thousand years ago we are told of a day in which a man spoke and asked a king what God should show him as proof that a thing would come to pass. The prophet of God asked if the man wanted God to have the earth move forward in time or backwards. The king, being a wise king, told the prophet, well of course, backwards. That would be impossible. But the account says that God caused a shadow cast by the light of the sun falling on a set of stairs to go backwards 10 steps. Now, ten steps would not be just some slight allusion for some magician to perform. I believe that God did that and I also believe that your science will tell you that it's impossible for the light of the sun to somehow move backwards from its normal course.

Do you know that about 2,000 years ago a baby was born. He was born from the womb of a woman whose own testimony is that she never had sexual relations with a man. Yet she had a baby. Has your science been able to show you how that happened?

There are dozens of miracles told to us in the Scriptures. Consider the account of Elijah and the prophets of Jezebel calling down fire from heaven to burn an alter that was soaked through with water. That somehow fire came down from heaven and burnt all that was on that alter, all at the command of Elijah. At one point a donkey spoke. On another day the sun stood still in the sky over Israel for nearly an entire day. That an ax head could float. All of these are things that science is going to tell you are impossible. But then I read in the Scriptures that He is the God of impossible.

So, when people tell me that the way God described the creation to us is an impossibility because science has proven otherwise, I just reflect on all of these other things that God has said He has done that they also can't prove did or didn't happen and that God is the God of impossible... well for me, that's just a confirmation that God did it.

I honestly don't think that you quite see what God is doing. He created this realm as a place for man to live. That's the only reason that all of the stars are in the heavens and there is life upon the earth. God did it. It didn't take Him billions of years, but merely six rotations of the planet upon its axis. Of course, science says He didn't do it that way. But God's word says that He did. I'm going with God.

God says in at least 3 places that He created all that exists in the heavens and on the earth in six days. I believe him. I can't help it that science can't figure it out.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Magenta]

My friend, there is no doubt that the universe shows the work for the Creator, this
is what science has reveled and keeps reveling so far, again supporting the Bible.

Psalm 19:1

 

[tedincarolina]

Hi @Magenta

Yes, "the work of His hands". Selah!

The bodies of the universe didn't come together as some sort of dust cloud that began swirling and over trillions of years finally coalesced into a solid body. God made them, each one, by His hands. He formed the earth just as He formed the man to live on the earth. All that He created, in this realm, He created for man. Praise God!!!

God bless,
Ted

 

[Magenta]

Hi @Magenta

Yes, "the work of His hands". Selah!

The bodies of the universe didn't come together as some sort of dust cloud that began swirling and over trillions of years finally coalesced into a solid body. God made them, each one, by His hands. He formed the earth just as He formed the man to live on the earth. All that He created, in this realm, He created for man. Praise God!!!

God bless,
Ted

Nehemiah 9:6 plus John 1:3

 

[UnoiAmarah]

It's impossible to know. We will know only if and when God reveals them to us.

Maybe you don't believe the physical universe is a finite sphere, but the fact you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't true.

And no, the onus isn't upon me to prove the universe is a finite sphere, the onus is upon you to prove that is impossible to know since someone who has faith would know that they must believe all things are possibly true until they can at least can articulate a reason that something isn't true.

i don't reject my sight either when i measure that a rock is old or that light is 13 billions old when it reaches my telescope.

So how do you measure the age of a rock by sight? So how do you determine the age of the light you see in your telescope is 13 billions years old if it is traveling from an object that is moving at the speed of light away from us?
Plus, I find it hard to believe that you own a 100-inch Hooker Telescope, but maybe you do.

Pretty amazing stuff when you read of supposed scientific theories that could support the story that God has told us.

If the Bible represents the earth is not the center of the universe then how can scientific theories that claim the earth is the center of the universe support the Bible being true? It wouldn't, neither does someone's false interpretation of the scriptures prove that the Bible is a mythical document.

 

[JohnRH]

Could earth be the center of the universe?

I think it could be. If you could de-materialize your giant arm and reach into a complex gear box and hold one gear tooth stationary, the entire gear box would rotate around that tooth. Everything inside the universe (material and immaterial) would have the same relationship with one another that we presently observe; if the earth were that stationary center.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

On another day the sun stood still in the sky over Israel for nearly an entire day.

So you a flat earther? It sounds it since the sun standing still in the sky would require the sun to be in the earth atmosphere. (While it theoretically could stand still in the sky if the earth instantly stop rotating, yet seeing that it didn't start rotating instantly then logically it could not stop rotating instantly. )

But of course the sun stands still, which is to say that it does not move from its position in the center of heaven, every day.

"Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven and hasted not to go down about a whole day." Josh 10:13

 

[tedincarolina]

So you a flat earther?

Hi @UnoiAmarah

What? Why does the sun standing still in the sky mean that the earth is flat? I don't know how God did it. Just as I don't know how God did most of the miracles that He claims to have done. For the sun to appear to stand in one place in the sky above us for a period of a day, then yes, some mighty work had to have been done between the relationship of the earth and the sun. But one thing I can tell you is that science can't explain 'how' a miracle comes to be, either. It's the very definition of miracle. That it describes an event for which there is no explanation.

But no, I am not a flat earther.

God bless,
Ted

 

[tedincarolina]

If the Bible represents the earth is not the center of the universe then how can scientific theories that claim the earth is the center of the universe support the Bible being true? It wouldn't, neither does someone's false interpretation of the scriptures prove that the Bible is a mythical document.

Mornin' again @UnoiAmarah

I didn't actually say what scientific theories support the young creation model. I don't think the earth centric understanding of the universe does, necessarily lend credence to the young creation model. There are other scientific understandings, however, that do. See here: Five Global Evidences for a Young Earth | The Institute for Creation Research (icr.org)

God bless,
Ted

 

[Eli1]

@tedincarolina all i can say at this point is God bless you and keep you.
I understand that you love God. So do i.
We are all unique and that's what makes our love for God beautiful like rainbow.

 

[Clayman]

Could earth be the center of the universe?

Absolutely!!! From my perspective and understanding of scripture the earth and universe is a temporary state created for a short period of time, say seven thousand years all up, to accomplish one thing, for the revealing of the Sons of God, in other words for man to choose of his own free will to follow God or not.

If this is accurate then the creation was created for this purpose.

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

If all of creation is for this purpose, then logically the center of the physical creation would be earth, the rest of the universe is to reflect and help us see the glorious and infinite nature of God.

I would even go a step further and presume Calvary will be revealed to us one day as the center of the universe, where the major central themes of the bible take place, if one sees that could have been the location of the tree of life in Eden, and the cross where the Sacrifice of our Lord and Saviour took place and where eternal life branched forth from and is proffered to all who are willing to receive.

Do I know this is the center for a fact? of course not, but to me this is how God our friend works, and we are already learning the nature and character of our friend and to me everything is preordained and I expect one day when we find ourselves with access to such details we will see that God's plans had a motif, a method and pattern to it.