IF the Spirit Dwells In You...

[Wansvic]

Jesus confirmed the Holy Ghost is not received upon belief when He told people to ask the Heavenly Father for the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)
Those Jesus spoke with were already believers; yet, they did not have the Holy Ghost. The account reveals there is discernable evidence when the experience occurs. Otherwise, how does a person know if they need to pray to receive the Holy Ghost?

The Samaritan account confirms this point. They knew they had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed, nor when they were water baptized. They actually received the Holy Ghost days later. (Acts 8:12-17)

Paul pointed out that receiving the Spirit was essential: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9) And scripture reveals tongues is the sign that accompanies the experience. (Acts 2:4-42, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)


Again, Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost/Spirit to all those who ask...
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

 

[Wansvic]

@Magenta Just curious. Which posted scripture do you disagree with?

 

[Magenta]

@Magenta Just curious. Which posted scripture do you disagree with?

Why do you assume it is a Scripture I disagree with?

 

[Edify]

All righteous that Jesus taught were righteous in the Old Covenant. The New Covenant wasn't ushered in until Jesus rose from the dead.
Also, MANY christians are confused with scriptures because there's TWO ways believers receive the Holy Spirit. One is a "down payment" if you would of salvation. Everyone born again of the Spirit has this portion regardless of their background, maturity, or anything else.
However, not many are baptized in the Holy Spirit. This is due to many reasons, some of which are immaturity, unbelief, irresponsibility, etc.
Sadly, many CC folks will do an internet scan for all scriptures on the Holy Spirit, but won't take the time to study about Him to show themselves properly handling the Word of truth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Why do you assume it is a Scripture I disagree with?

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. ( like the Jews at pentocost )

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Seems like they just believed eh beloved sister ?!

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Jesus confirmed the Holy Ghost is not received upon belief when He told people to ask the Heavenly Father for the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)
Those Jesus spoke with were already believers; yet, they did not have the Holy Ghost. The account reveals there is discernable evidence when the experience occurs. Otherwise, how does a person know if they need to pray to receive the Holy Ghost?

The Samaritan account confirms this point. They knew they had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed, nor when they were water baptized. They actually received the Holy Ghost days later. (Acts 8:12-17)

Paul pointed out that receiving the Spirit was essential: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9) And scripture reveals tongues is the sign that accompanies the experience. (Acts 2:4-42, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)


Again, Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost/Spirit to all those who ask...
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

Word games. Biblically the Holy Spirit IN the disciples is recorded at John 20:22 making them the FIRST "Born again Christians".

THEN Jesus said: "hang around Jerusalem until you are "Endued (externally clothed) with POWER from on high". THAT happened to all of 'em at Acts 2:4.

OLD TESTAMENT individuals (Samson, Isaiah, Daniel, etc. received the SAME Enduement - WITHOUT BEING "born again" and indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

SO John 20:22, and Acts 2:4 are two DIFFERENT situations.

 

[Wansvic]

Word games. Biblically the Holy Spirit IN the disciples is recorded at John 20:22 making them the FIRST "Born again Christians".

THEN Jesus said: "hang around Jerusalem until you are "Endued (externally clothed) with POWER from on high". THAT happened to all of 'em at Acts 2:4.

OLD TESTAMENT individuals (Samson, Isaiah, Daniel, etc. received the SAME Enduement - WITHOUT BEING "born again" and indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

SO John 20:22, and Acts 2:4 are two DIFFERENT situations.

The believers at Pentecost were told they shall receive the Holy Ghost. Not that the experience occurred when they believed Jesus had risen. (Acts 2:36-42)
And, at Pentecost the individuals were NOT externally clothed; "And they were ALL FILLED with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:4) Peter also stated that the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost when they heard them speak in tongues. (Acts 10:43-48. 11:15)

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

The believers at Pentecost were told they shall receive the Holy Ghost. Not that the experience occurred when they believed Jesus had risen. (Acts 2:36-42)
And, at Pentecost the individuals were NOT externally clothed; "And they were ALL FILLED with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:4) Peter also stated that the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost when they heard them speak in tongues. (Acts 10:43-48. 11:15)

Standard cessationist interpretation.

What occurred at John 20:22???

 

[Omegatime]

If the Spirit dwells among you

You will know

 

[Wansvic]

Standard cessationist interpretation.

What occurred at John 20:22???

To clarify, I believe the sign of tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost, as well as the Spiritual Gifts have not ceased.

As for John 20:21-23, Jesus' words seem to reference future events considering what occurred at Pentecost:

"Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Note the following:
1. Jesus stated He was sending the apostles out. However, He specifically told them not to go forth but to wait for the promise of the Father; the Holy Ghost. (Luke 24:47-49)
2. Jesus stated the Holy Ghost could not come until He departed. And clearly He had not departed yet. (John 16:7)
3. Jesus also told the apostles they could remit as well as retain sins. This principle relates to the NT water baptism in the name of Jesus. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) According to Jesus repentance and remission of sin (the water baptism connection) would be preached in HIS NAME to all nations and would BEGIN in Jerusalem. This is a clear reference to what occurred at Pentecost. (Luke 24:47)

Jesus said:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I WILL SEND HIM UNTO YOU. (John 16:7)
Acts 2:32-33 records when this actually occurred: "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed (sent) forth this, which ye now see and hear."

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" (John 7:38-39)

 

[NightTwister]

To clarify, I believe the sign of tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost, as well as the Spiritual Gifts have not ceased.[/QUOTE]
What percentage do you receive after belief and baptism if you didn't speak in tongues? 10%? 50%?

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Jesus' words seem to reference future events considering what occurred at Pentecost:

So nothing, then - as expected.

 

[p_rehbein]

I continue to be concerned that so many people do not understand the difference between the baptism of the Holy Spirit and His indwelling presence. I have posted far too many posts about this to continue to try and show the true meaning of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and how we receive it to continue posting such again and again.

The critical error IMO is that people do not understand this difference on a spiritual level, but still on an earthly level. Saved? Yes. Sanctified? Not until they receive His indwelling presence.

What I do know to be true is that the day is coming when ALL will understand the Truth. Sadly, some will be disappointed to realize they had it wrong all along.

Prayers for them.

 

[Wansvic]

So nothing, then - as expected.

Consider after the encounter with Jesus in John 20:22, the apostles did not exhibit a change in character. They still lived in fear (John 20:26), reverted to their former employment (John 21:1-3), and insisted on comparing service, loyalty, etc. (John 21:20-22). However, there was a total change after they actually received the Holy Ghost at Pentecost.

"“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. . . ." (John 16:7) Jesus reiterated the promise of the Spirit after His resurrection and turned it into a command. He commanded His disciples, “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” (John 20:22). They did not receive the Spirit at that time, AS LUKE'S ACCOUNT OF THE EVENT MAKES CLEAR. “And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high” (Luke 24:49); “And being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. . . . But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth” (Acts 1:4-5, 8)." Excerpt from New Birth-Bernard

 

[Wansvic]

I continue to be concerned that so many people do not understand the difference between the baptism of the Holy Spirit and His indwelling presence. I have posted far too many posts about this to continue to try and show the true meaning of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and how we receive it to continue posting such again and again.

The critical error IMO is that people do not understand this difference on a spiritual level, but still on an earthly level. Saved? Yes. Sanctified? Not until they receive His indwelling presence.

What I do know to be true is that the day is coming when ALL will understand the Truth. Sadly, some will be disappointed to realize they had it wrong all along.

Prayers for them.

Please provide scripture that the experience is not one in the same.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Consider after the encounter with Jesus in John 20:22, the apostles did not exhibit a change in character.

Except as noted at Luke 24:45, which was the first time the disciples REALLY UNDERSTOOD what was going on.

after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:

Note "UPON YOU" - not "IN YOU". Luke 24:49 = "Endued" - clothed with, not indwelled.

Understand: "Filled with the SPirit" as: FUllY MOTIVATED BY THE SPIRIT.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
● Luke 11:13 . . If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good
gifts to your children; how much more will your Father in heaven give the
Holy Spirit to those who ask him?

That's probably a bounce from passages like Proverbs 1:22-23 which says:

"How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in
their scorning, and fools hate knowledge. Turn at my rebuke; surely I will
pour out My spirit on you; I will make my words known to you."

The thing is: practically from the very beginning, Moses' people were
deprived what we today know as spiritual discernment. For example:

● Deut 29:2-4 . . Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them: Your
eyes have seen all that the Lord did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials
and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those
miraculous signs and great wonders. But to this day the Lord has not given
you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.

And:

● Ezek 12:1-2 . .The word of the Lord came to me: Son of man, you are
living among a rebellious people. They have eyes to see but do not see and
ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people.

Plus:

● 1Cor 2:14 . .The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that
come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot
comprehend them, because they are spiritually discerned.

To my knowledge; one need not be baptized by the Spirit in order to obtain
spiritual discernment, but for sure one must be baptized by the Spirit in
order to obtain unification with Christ.

● 1Cor 12:12-27 . .The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts;
and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ.
For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or
Greeks, slave or free --and we were all given the one Spirit to drink etc, etc.

* Not all baptisms get people wet; for example the Jews out of Egyptian
slavery were baptized unto Moses when they passed thru the Red Sea dry
shod, and to my knowledge that special cloud didn't baptize the people with
rain. (1Cor 10:1-2)
_

 

[Wansvic]

Except as noted at Luke 24:45, which was the first time the disciples REALLY UNDERSTOOD what was going on.



Note "UPON YOU" - not "IN YOU". Luke 24:49 = "Endued" - clothed with, not indwelled.

Understand: "Filled with the SPirit" as: FUllY MOTIVATED BY THE SPIRIT.

I've shared scripture that reveals they were filled with the Holy Ghost: "And they were ALL FILLED with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:4) Speaking in tongues is the direct evidence that the Holy Ghost had taken up residence in their bodies.

"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. " (Luke 24:49) Peter stated that what was seen and heard at Pentecost was that promise of the Father. (Acts 2:33)

And it was Jesus who said, "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:16-17

All detailed accounts confirm the people were indwelt with the Holy Ghost:
Peter said the Gentiles experience was the same as theirs at Pentecost. (Acts 11:15)
Paul made it clear that people can believe yet no have the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19:2-7)
The Samaritans also experienced being indwelt with the promised gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:12-17)

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I've shared scripture that reveals they were filled with the Holy Ghost: "And they were ALL FILLED with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:4) Speaking in tongues is the direct evidence that the Holy Ghost had taken up residence in their bodies.

"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. " (Luke 24:49) Peter stated that what was seen and heard at Pentecost was that promise of the Father. (Acts 2:33)

And it was Jesus who said, "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:16-17

All detailed accounts confirm the people were indwelt with the Holy Ghost:
Peter said the Gentiles experience was the same as theirs at Pentecost. (Acts 11:15)
Paul made it clear that people can believe yet no have the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19:2-7)
The Samaritans also experienced being indwelt with the promised gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:12-17)

Standard Cessationist paradigm.

 

[Blade]

Jesus confirmed the Holy Ghost is not received upon belief when He told people to ask the Heavenly Father for the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)
Those Jesus spoke with were already believers; yet, they did not have the Holy Ghost. The account reveals there is discernable evidence when the experience occurs. Otherwise, how does a person know if they need to pray to receive the Holy Ghost?

The Samaritan account confirms this point. They knew they had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed, nor when they were water baptized. They actually received the Holy Ghost days later. (Acts 8:12-17)

Paul pointed out that receiving the Spirit was essential: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9) And scripture reveals tongues is the sign that accompanies the experience. (Acts 2:4-42, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)


Again, Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost/Spirit to all those who ask...
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

This will tip over allot of carts so to speak by the way you said it. Just look at how it has unfolded so far. First let me say no to "Jesus confirmed". No where in Luke 11 did Christ confirmed the Holy Ghost is not received upon belief. Luke 11;13 is a promise to ever believer that asks, God can not lie. John B I baptise with water but HE will baptise with the holy spirit. Peter said repent be baptised and then you shall receive the gift of the holy Spirit. Same with the 120+ yeah there were women and others yet all got it. The day before this were they saved and already had the holy spirit? What was that promise? Only for the 120+ get it?

To cut out all I wrote. I go with what works. By that I mean I just blindly believe. Sorry that is not the best word yet its what I do. I look back and oh sorry but so many things He said shown me I try to look back and see what I did. All I can see is.. I just read what He said and believed. This was when there was no Internet no cell phones no computers nothing. Can't I just read and just believe what so ever I desire or these signs shall follow them that believe or if I love Him I keep His words/commands? Can't I read Cor 13 and Phil and Eph and just believe and do it? Its like I hmm very short.. I had to be mom and dad. So I always dropped them off picked them up. One day at my sons school the Principle saw me look out the door .. kind a crying said " I think its harder for you then him". Like my wife.. I never ever ever get tired of seeing them being with them.

Anyway one day waiting at school to pick them up I was reading about this man that found something and sold everything. I said lord I read this so many times whats this treasure? He said "I am the treasure". Is this true? Well I never really searched on it. Never looked to see what someone else said. Well if we seek Him with our hearts and I truly believe if I am off in any area He will aways tell me. Father in JESUS name change me 1st not you the reader the hearer but me.

So I read Luke 11 13 as if I never heard anyone say what it really means. I read John 3:16-17 the same way. God the Father of our lord Jesus Christ is real. So when I ask for the holy Spirit .. its a promise to any believer. I don't care if someone says I already have when I 1st got saved. He never said it like that.. no where in His word. So if I believe there are signs that follow. I ask and He has always.. go for it.. pray seek ask Him if I am lying about anything. He always keeps His word. ANY promise I stand on He did it already. Faith with out works. All I am trying to say is.. get out of His way. Do you want His truth or what I say or anyone else? Then just read it and believe. Your His child He will not lead you the wrong way.

we all get things wrong but.. we knows those that are His by the LOVE they have one for another. When it comes to faith and gifts and tongues.. wheres the "hey if you don't believe this praise GOD. You know Jesus as lord and thats what matters". Don't believe a word I say. Change me 1st Father