Does anyone know of....
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You don't know my belief system if you believe what you posted is what I believe. God being first cause of all things doesn't make Him responsible for the actions of His creations.
You should be careful how you post concerning God's people. And don't worry, I don't blame God for you bearing false witness.
You should be careful how you post concerning God's people. And don't worry, I don't blame God for you bearing false witness.
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I believe the question was asked quite clearly.
Your answer: "I know some who believe much of the reformed faith, but who still have doubts concerning the salvation." does not address the question.
"believe much of the reformed faith" does not equal "convinced of the validity of the tenets of Calvinism".
"have doubts concerning their salvation " certainly does not equal "assured that they are not part of those chosen few"
Do you not think that the evil one attacks all God's children? Not sure what this has to do with anything.
You ignored this part:
If we can be assured of our salvation because of predestination, can the opposite be true of our damnation?
OUCH!
Your answer: "I know some who believe much of the reformed faith, but who still have doubts concerning the salvation." does not address the question.
"believe much of the reformed faith" does not equal "convinced of the validity of the tenets of Calvinism".
"have doubts concerning their salvation " certainly does not equal "assured that they are not part of those chosen few"
Do you not think that the evil one attacks all God's children? Not sure what this has to do with anything.
You ignored this part:
If we can be assured of our salvation because of predestination, can the opposite be true of our damnation?
OUCH!
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You just confirmed what I said to be true when you said "God being the first cause of all things". Once again, both sides out of your mouth.
God is the first cause of everything, yet responsible for nothing? Make it make sense. Its not bearing false witness its called being logically consistent. You guys always do this, if I would get a knickle for each time James White claims this id be a rich man.
God is the first cause of everything, yet responsible for nothing? Make it make sense. Its not bearing false witness its called being logically consistent. You guys always do this, if I would get a knickle for each time James White claims this id be a rich man.
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By virtue of being the Creator, everything that follows is the result of creation. So, since God is that Creator, He is the first cause.
The man who invented the automobile is the first cause of all that follows as a result. But whoever that person is is not responsible for you running over someone.
It's not a difficult concept.
The man who invented the automobile is the first cause of all that follows as a result. But whoever that person is is not responsible for you running over someone.
It's not a difficult concept.
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You seem to have completely missed the two aspects of God's Sovereign will.
God has both an "Active" will and a "Passive" will. Are better stated, a "Direct" will and a "Permissive" will.
When God acts in His Direct will, nothing can stop what has been directed to occur or has been promised by Him. In the case of His Permissive will, God "allows" it to take place but does not direct it to take place. Therefore, God "allowed" sin/evil to enter into Creation but did not direct it or it's actions. However, He did "Plan" or "Direct" a resolution for it, in Jesus Christ, Election, Regeneration, Justification and eventually Glorification.
God has both an "Active" will and a "Passive" will. Are better stated, a "Direct" will and a "Permissive" will.
When God acts in His Direct will, nothing can stop what has been directed to occur or has been promised by Him. In the case of His Permissive will, God "allows" it to take place but does not direct it to take place. Therefore, God "allowed" sin/evil to enter into Creation but did not direct it or it's actions. However, He did "Plan" or "Direct" a resolution for it, in Jesus Christ, Election, Regeneration, Justification and eventually Glorification.
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You would be correct in stating that, not all of the Reformed Movement believes in all of the tenets of John Calvin.
The problem is in the labels, whether it be Calvinism, Arminianism or what ever. A "label" is just a quick way to say you are aligned with one view or another. It does not necessarily follow, that you believe every aspect of that view. To lump individuals into a particular "label" is like saying all human beings are exactly the same in every aspect. What is really important here, is that we, as believers, STRIVE to obtain the TRUTH from the Holy Word of God. Bible Commentators can be helpful in our studies but they too, are STRIVING for the TRUTH of God's Holy Word.
To answer your last statement, about assurance... YES, we can be assured that all of whom God saves - ARE SAVED and ALL of whom God does not save - will go into condemnation. The Sovereign choice is the Creators - not the creation. Those who are saved - love God's Sovereignty in all things. Those who still lack Grace hate God's Sovereignty.
The problem is in the labels, whether it be Calvinism, Arminianism or what ever. A "label" is just a quick way to say you are aligned with one view or another. It does not necessarily follow, that you believe every aspect of that view. To lump individuals into a particular "label" is like saying all human beings are exactly the same in every aspect. What is really important here, is that we, as believers, STRIVE to obtain the TRUTH from the Holy Word of God. Bible Commentators can be helpful in our studies but they too, are STRIVING for the TRUTH of God's Holy Word.
To answer your last statement, about assurance... YES, we can be assured that all of whom God saves - ARE SAVED and ALL of whom God does not save - will go into condemnation. The Sovereign choice is the Creators - not the creation. Those who are saved - love God's Sovereignty in all things. Those who still lack Grace hate God's Sovereignty.
I do not think I know anyone personally, most who hold to these tenets tended to be more assured of their salvation based the tenet that the saints of God will preserver.
However, Derek Webb, former Calvinist (singer/song writer) came up on a different thread.
These are lyrics from his song. he became an atheist.
Consider these lyrics from the song which closes his new album, “Goodbye For Now:”
“So either you aren’t real
Or I am just not chosen
Maybe I’ll never know
Either way my heart is broken
As I say, goodbye for now”
So tragic.
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Imagine being raised in church that teaches you are born morally incapable of belief.
I find it incomprehensible really.
It must have been a truly original thinker who read the Gospel of John and came away with that.
I find it incomprehensible really.
It must have been a truly original thinker who read the Gospel of John and came away with that.
Free will is not taught in the Bible. Not. Any. Where.
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Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
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There is a HUGE difference between "predestined" and "foreknown". Since God and Christ HATE iniquity, sin, evil, wickedness, and idolatry, it is impossible for God -- who is Light -- to predestine any of this. However, He did ALLOW Satan to sin, and he did allow sin to enter into this world for a season only. If you are making God responsible for evil, then you do have a problem.
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This is hilarious.
So let's look at why it is taught in the Bible from almost the first day of creation: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1:27)
Does God have free will? Absolutely. Did He create man in his image (which includes the ability to make free decisions)? Absolutely.
Do we see this illustrated in Genesis 2:16,17? And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Some people would have this verse like this in order to believe that mankind has free will:
1. Adam you can eat of every tree in Eden with one exception.
2. You are forbidden to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
3. But because you have free will, you could choose to disobey me. I hope you don't.
4. However, be warned -- on the day that you disobey me and eat that fruit, you will surely die.
So let's look at why it is taught in the Bible from almost the first day of creation: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1:27)
Does God have free will? Absolutely. Did He create man in his image (which includes the ability to make free decisions)? Absolutely.
Do we see this illustrated in Genesis 2:16,17? And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Some people would have this verse like this in order to believe that mankind has free will:
1. Adam you can eat of every tree in Eden with one exception.
2. You are forbidden to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
3. But because you have free will, you could choose to disobey me. I hope you don't.
4. However, be warned -- on the day that you disobey me and eat that fruit, you will surely die.
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