How non believers may view Christian's.
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I believe I can find a group here in my area. I just haven't really found one yet, but I'm doing my research. I'm using discernment and I'm dialing it in. As someone said, maybe I need to start forming my own group. Of course, this wouldn't be to bring division, need a group of people that come together to talk about God, we share the Bible, we pray for one another, we help 1 another, that's really what matters. I don't want to go through a church or an institution. I would consider one that doesn't pay tiths. But really that's not what I'm trying to discuss.What I'm discussing is that for someone who may be a skeptic or a non-believer. They really are treading in dangerous waters when looking for a church. Because most of these churches will not lead you on the straight and narrow path. Most of them are watered down And worldly establishments that are only interested in increasing the numbers and increasing the profits. The bar has become so low now to be a Christian. I don't even know what it means to be a Christian anymore. It seems like anybody could be a Christian. They just gotta say the prayer and go to the altar.
The irony of the OP refusing to go to a church due to lack of unity yet simultaneously bashing All churches, of which he's only seen or been to a minute portion of, is hard to miss.
How can you bash thousands of churches, preachers and congregations while complaining about a lack of unity. Where is the unity in that behavior?
Also there are people holding differing views than you and you are sticking to what you believe is right and arguing with them. The very thing you're complaining about others doing.
You're talking unity but not even doing it yourself.
Not to mention the "alcoholic" example. Firstly none of those credentials come from God, but rather institutions, who have their own view of things. Exactly what you're complaining about. So how could you view someone with man-made credentials coming through an institute as someone automatically worth learning from, but then say churches are not?
Second it's odd to say that all that knowledge is what drove him to drink. What? Where? How? That makes zero sense at all.
I could go on but I think this demonstrates it's easy to Talk about unity, but not easy to Live it. That you're questioning your faith does not dismiss you from the fact that you are not living out the things you're complaining about.
Just like talking about unity and not wanting to be called a Christian is not unity.
How can you bash thousands of churches, preachers and congregations while complaining about a lack of unity. Where is the unity in that behavior?
Also there are people holding differing views than you and you are sticking to what you believe is right and arguing with them. The very thing you're complaining about others doing.
You're talking unity but not even doing it yourself.
Not to mention the "alcoholic" example. Firstly none of those credentials come from God, but rather institutions, who have their own view of things. Exactly what you're complaining about. So how could you view someone with man-made credentials coming through an institute as someone automatically worth learning from, but then say churches are not?
Second it's odd to say that all that knowledge is what drove him to drink. What? Where? How? That makes zero sense at all.
I could go on but I think this demonstrates it's easy to Talk about unity, but not easy to Live it. That you're questioning your faith does not dismiss you from the fact that you are not living out the things you're complaining about.
Just like talking about unity and not wanting to be called a Christian is not unity.
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Oh... No no no, it's not like that any more.
I mean it USED to be like that, for about three decades. As little as six years ago it used to be like that. But the last few years Christianity's popularity has gone waaaaaay down. Easy believism is going out.
Take heart, if that's what is important to you. It's getting a LOT easier to tell real Christians these days. The fakes are falling out faster than fleas when you give your dog a bath.
I mean it USED to be like that, for about three decades. As little as six years ago it used to be like that. But the last few years Christianity's popularity has gone waaaaaay down. Easy believism is going out.
Take heart, if that's what is important to you. It's getting a LOT easier to tell real Christians these days. The fakes are falling out faster than fleas when you give your dog a bath.
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Again, it's not me that needs to prove myself. I'm not the one making the claims. And talking about how powerful and great God is and being the example of what it means to follow God. And unfortunately, it's a sad example. If you're claiming to know God and you're making all these big claims and you're not able to produce the fruit and back it up with evidence. Then step aside and stop calling yourself a church or a Christian. Plain and simple.
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Also, what I'm claiming is that a lot of the churches are man-made institutions. That's what I've been talking about this whole time. So my example about the drunk applies. If someone has the credentials and the qualifications to be a pastor but he beats his wife and is molesting little children, is he someone that you should listen to and follow?
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They are free to call themselves whatever they want, just as you are free to go around pointing a finger and saying they are not REAL Christians.
Frankly what I've had quite enough of is people running around trying to call other people out as fakes. Everybody's trying to play watchdog, or maybe measuring stick, trying to ascertain whether everybody else is a real Christian or not.
I got all I can handle making sure I'm a Christian. So do the people I might criticize for not being real christians. They probably don't need my help and I certainly don't have the time to measure out their lives AND mine.
And the next time someone tells me how not-Christian some alleged Christians are, I'm going to get very sarcastic and very fault finding with the person trying to do the measuring. Best way to shut up a nitpicker is to pick a few of his own nits and hold them up for inspection.
Frankly what I've had quite enough of is people running around trying to call other people out as fakes. Everybody's trying to play watchdog, or maybe measuring stick, trying to ascertain whether everybody else is a real Christian or not.
I got all I can handle making sure I'm a Christian. So do the people I might criticize for not being real christians. They probably don't need my help and I certainly don't have the time to measure out their lives AND mine.
And the next time someone tells me how not-Christian some alleged Christians are, I'm going to get very sarcastic and very fault finding with the person trying to do the measuring. Best way to shut up a nitpicker is to pick a few of his own nits and hold them up for inspection.
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In terms of differences with Christian denominations these are over more minor doctrines, or really over largely the question of authority. This is why the 3 points listed in Post #4 (Jesus life as explained in the Apostle's Creed, the trinity doctrine describing God as explained in the Athanasian Creed, and holding the Bible as the divinely inspired religious text of Christianity) are really the main unifier and way to distinguish a legitimate Christian denomination from either a pagan religion or a heretical sect. All valid Christians are unified as a whole Christian religion in that they hold the 3 beliefs listed.
A 4th perhaps side point that is sometimes made is that a valid denomination should have a historical link to the apostolic succession as well to distinguish it from a more modern cult or a passing movement that comes and goes in the course of history. The historical link to the apostolic succession gives a sort of objective chain from the apostles in the Bible to the modern day as opposed to a newfound and questionable denomination that claims to have some new revelation to try to justify them bringing a different gospel typically to the worldly benefit of one person (a cult leader) or a group of people or political movement. Though one could even consider this something of a moot point since most newfound denominations that do not have a historical link to the apostles also tend to reject one or more of the three core beliefs of Christianity and therefore they could be considerred wholly different religions or elsewise heretical to the point of being outside of the unity of Christianity (ie: islam, jehovah's witnesses, mormonism, etc.)
A 4th perhaps side point that is sometimes made is that a valid denomination should have a historical link to the apostolic succession as well to distinguish it from a more modern cult or a passing movement that comes and goes in the course of history. The historical link to the apostolic succession gives a sort of objective chain from the apostles in the Bible to the modern day as opposed to a newfound and questionable denomination that claims to have some new revelation to try to justify them bringing a different gospel typically to the worldly benefit of one person (a cult leader) or a group of people or political movement. Though one could even consider this something of a moot point since most newfound denominations that do not have a historical link to the apostles also tend to reject one or more of the three core beliefs of Christianity and therefore they could be considerred wholly different religions or elsewise heretical to the point of being outside of the unity of Christianity (ie: islam, jehovah's witnesses, mormonism, etc.)
Nufan, you seem to be on the right track. The only thing I see that could potentially become a problem for you is your insistence on showing everyone how bad the established religious system is. If you feel you have the truth in you, and want to follow Christ, then do so; just let your light shine. You don't have to get involved in a struggle you can never win. Jesus Himself said: "Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit." Matthew 15:14
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lol, in a sense, as the world sees us, yeah we're "bigots"!
Christianity presents an absolute truth claim-- there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.
the world doesn't tend to like absolute truth claims, unless it's the one making them.
Christianity presents an absolute truth claim-- there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.
the world doesn't tend to like absolute truth claims, unless it's the one making them.
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i cannot control what "they" do. but i can have some control over what i do. i can love my brothers and sisters... anyone in Christ can do this.
welp, the bar's always been low. only wretched sinners who see their need of a Savior need apply. isn't that Good News?
welp, the bar's always been low. only wretched sinners who see their need of a Savior need apply. isn't that Good News?