Pentecostal view of the holy spirit.

[Wansvic]

1. Not God necessarily. God gave the supernatural ability to speak FOREIGN LANGUAGES to those who had never spoken them. Proof? See Acts 2 for at least 15 languages and dialects never spoken by Galileans.

2. It is admitted by all modern tongues speakers that they do not speak distinct foreign languages. Several careful linguistic studies -- even by committed Pentecostals -- have confirmed this.

3. Presently, the modern tongues speakers have started calling their babbling "a prayer language", but Christ used plain words to teach us how to pray. He Himself prayed in either Hebrew or Aramaic. So only the "super spiritual" today have a special language for prayer. Which makes the majority of Christian "second class".
...

1 Corinthians 12:10 indicates there are different kinds of tongues. Unknown tongues directed to God that result in one's personal edification. As well as the Spiritual gift of tongues and interpretation initiated by God for edification of the church body.

Paul specifically mentions prayers spoken in a language unknown to any man: "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. " 1 Cor 14:2

Paul went on to say:
"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." 1 Cor 14:14-15

 

[Wansvic]

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5. "Ecstatic utterances" (similiar to glossolalia or babbling) have been known to have been spoken by pagans a long time ago. Shamans and witch doctors have also spoken such utterances, and we know that they communicate with evil spirits.
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The enemy's goal is to cast doubt on God's truth through imitation. The word holds the truth if we but allow it to lead us.

 

[Wansvic]

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6. If God was involved, English-speaking missionaries who went to foreign lands would hav all received the supernatural ability to speak Chinese, or Swahili, or Hindi. Instead they had to labor for many years trying to learn the language they needed.
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It is possible they, like many others today, did not believe what the word reveals concerning the spiritual gifts. "You have not because you ask not."

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13

 

[Edify]

Yes you can. Read this carefully: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect [complete] is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (1 Cor 13:8)
Some translations have correctly used "complete" although perfect is acceptable.

Three spiritual gifts -- tongues, supernatural knowledge, and prophecy would cease. They are all related to divine revelations. Why? Because after the Bible was completed there was no need for these gifts. And in Revelation John made it abundantly clear that there could be no more genuine prophecies. He was the last apostle-prophet.

And if you want proof, go to the writings of the Apostolic Fathers in the first and second centuries, and see if any of them (or any Christians of that time) exercised these gifts.

You have misinterpreted this scripture. There is nothing "perfect" until we stand before Jesus face to face.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

We would all do well to adhere to Paul's teachings concerning speaking in tongues. Paul considered it the lesser of all the Gifts of the Spirit. As well, speaking in tongues is simply speaking an a different language than the original language of the person speaking. Refer to the Day of Pentecost to understand the truth of this.

IMO, the greater percent of people who practice tongues today are not speaking in tongues as is spoken of in Scripture. Why? Because speaking in the "unknown tongues" they practice is UNKNOWN! How then can they publish Books teaching others to speak in an UNKNOWN TONGUE?

My mother once went to a church where tongues was practice because a friend invited her. The friend told her if she wanted to experience speaking in tongues to raise her hands above her head, lean her head way back and turn around fast and say "the keys to my Honda, the keys to my Honda over and over until she was speaking in tongues."

She decided it was time to leave, so she excused herself and left the church.

Only the Holy Spirit can bring someone to speak in tongues, and then there must be a translator to reveal to the Congregation what is being said.

Ie: If I go to church Sunday and the Spirit moves me to speak in Russian (which I have never spoke a word of) I am speaking in tongues. However, if there is not a translator there who speaks Russian, I am to remain silent so as not to cause confusion among the Congregation.

The biggest thing to remember is speaking in tongues through the Holy Spirit is ALWAYS done for a purpose! Again, see Acts and the Scriptures there revealing that the tongues spoken on that day was to spread the Gospel of Jesus, NOT to show to the world that one is saved or any such.

Those who say one must speak in tongues to be truly saved are false teachers!

Totally agree with all of that! I have experienced enough genuine times to know tongues is real. But unfortunately there are people out there that think it's an exclusive club and try to fake it. Spiritually immature people.

 

[Wansvic]

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7. Personally I would love to meet someone who knows they have the ability to speak a foreign language as given by God. They would be fully conscious of this, so their interpreter would be a native speaker of that language and he would interpret for an English-speaking audience, while the natives heard the Gospel in their own language.

Both the Spiritual gift of speaking in tongues and gift of interpretation manifest directly from the Holy Ghost. The person speaking in tongues has no idea what they've said. Nor does the interpreter understand the language spoken. Both utterances are orchestrated miraculously by the Holy Ghost. The interpreter hears the message spoken in an unknown language in their own language and present's God's message to those in the church.

I personally know of a person who was speaking in tongues being asked to repeat what they said. Unbeknownst to them, they had been speaking in the other person's language.

 

[Wansvic]

We would all do well to adhere to Paul's teachings concerning speaking in tongues. Paul considered it the lesser of all the Gifts of the Spirit. As well, speaking in tongues is simply speaking an a different language than the original language of the person speaking. ...

The sum of God's word is truth. And the word reveals there are different kinds of tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:10) Unknown tongues directed to God that result in one's personal edification. As well as the Spiritual gift of tongues and interpretation initiated by God for edification of the church body.

Paul specifically mentions prayers spoken in a language unknown to any man: "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. " (1 Cor 14:2)

 

[Wansvic]

...

Only the Holy Spirit can bring someone to speak in tongues, and then there must be a translator to reveal to the Congregation what is being said.

Ie: If I go to church Sunday and the Spirit moves me to speak in Russian (which I have never spoke a word of) I am speaking in tongues. However, if there is not a translator there who speaks Russian, I am to remain silent so as not to cause confusion among the Congregation.
...

The Spiritual gift of interpretation is miraculous. It differs from the natural ability to interpret accomplished through learning a language.

Both the Spiritual gift of speaking in tongues and gift of interpretation manifest directly from the Holy Ghost. The person speaking in tongues has no idea what they've said. Nor does the interpreter understand the language spoken. Both utterances are orchestrated miraculously by the Holy Ghost. The interpreter hears the message spoken in an unknown language in their own language and present's God's message to those in the church.

 

[Wansvic]

...

Only the Holy Spirit can bring someone to speak in tongues, and then there must be a translator to reveal to the Congregation what is being said.

Ie: If I go to church Sunday and the Spirit moves me to speak in Russian (which I have never spoke a word of) I am speaking in tongues. However, if there is not a translator there who speaks Russian, I am to remain silent so as not to cause confusion among the Congregation.
...

Note a problem with the scenario you present. If you don't know what language you'll be speaking how could you determine whether to be silent or not?

The Spiritual gift of interpretation involves the Holy Spirit imparting understanding of any and all unknown languages/tongues spoken. If there is no one present in the congregation who operates in the gift then speaking a message in an unknown tongue becomes fruitless; thus explaining why to be silent.

 

[CS1]

Note a problem with the scenario you present. If you don't know what language you'll be speaking how could you determine whether to be silent or not?

The Spiritual gift of interpretation involves the Holy Spirit imparting understanding of any and all unknown languages/tongues spoken. If there is no one present in the congregation who operates in the gift then speaking a message in an unknown tongue becomes fruitless; thus explaining why to be silent.

1cor 14:2


For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

1cor 14:13-15
Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

What is the conclusion then?

I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

 

[homwardbound]

Been doing some reading lately on the whole tongues thing. Coming from a baptist background much of this philosophy is new to me, hopefully actual Pentecostals will reply. As I understand it most mainstream Pentecostals seem to believe there's two forms of the holy spirit. One that occurs at salvation and the other an occur at any time, and is supposed to manifest itself as tongue speaking to empower the individual. If I were to paraphrase, is it like being registered with the holy spirit at first and the recieving of actual power comes later as a sign you move on to ministry?

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

It, is one, another way to get people off track of the risen Son Jesus, where new life gets given the people, between God and themselves personally. There are many ways written, spoken from others, for people to believe and show people they believe for another person and or group to accept them in their way to know for sure you are saved. God decides, not man.
God knows who are God's and who are not. As each person, knows themselves, between God and themselves. Romans 8:15-16
there are many born agin by God as, there are those seeking this born new out.
For those that will not stop belief to God will see through it all and see what born new is in God's spirit and Truth over it all.
Everything will cease, but Love, Charity of God


1 Corinthians 13:13

New King James Version

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

 

[NightTwister]

Although Southern Baptists generally do not practice speaking of tongues in public worship, many apparently practice speaking of tongues in private.

They also drink alcohol in private ;-)

 

[CS1]

They also drink alcohol in private ;-)

lol

 

[Evmur]

Been doing some reading lately on the whole tongues thing. Coming from a baptist background much of this philosophy is new to me, hopefully actual Pentecostals will reply. As I understand it most mainstream Pentecostals seem to believe there's two forms of the holy spirit. One that occurs at salvation and the other an occur at any time, and is supposed to manifest itself as tongue speaking to empower the individual. If I were to paraphrase, is it like being registered with the holy spirit at first and the recieving of actual power comes later as a sign you move on to ministry?

Seems there's a common view amongst baptists thinking pentacostals make tongues vital to salvation, but from what I've dug up, only a small handful of sub-categories seem to believe this and few of them seem to come out and say it. Closest I can find appear to say "Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?

God's way is extraordinarily simple. He will give you exactly what you ask for in accordance with the scripture truth you have received.

If denominations to not preach fulness [because they do not believe in fulness] as a rule nobody will receive the fulness.

God does set a high premium upon unity among the brethren, He does prefer to include the whole assembly in the blessing at the same time.

 

[Burn1986]

It’s sad how the Holy Spirit is painted out as something bad and speaking in tongues is viewed as somehow demonic or witchcraft. Yet no one on this thread or in any of these threads has shown evidence of speaking in tongues. Denominational churches completely shun the Holy Spirit.

 

[Burn1986]

You have misinterpreted this scripture. There is nothing "perfect" until we stand before Jesus face to face.

Oh and you have interpreted it correctly? Dear Lord

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You conveniently ignored everything I said in my post, and switched the topic. If by SBC you mean the Southern Baptist Convention, I do not see any evidence that Southern Baptists are GENERALLY beginning to speak in tongues.

And the gifts are not finished. But biblical tongues are finished.

Paul said they finish when [τὸ τέλειον] happens. When we see God (the Perfect) face to face.
The Bible has NEVER ever been called the FACE of God, only called the Word of God.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

They also drink alcohol in private ;-)

Possibly. That's their own decision and none of my business

 

[Nehemiah6]

1 Corinthians 12:10 indicates there are different kinds of tongues. Unknown tongues directed to God that result in one's personal edification.

Did you notice that in the KJV the word "unknown" is in italics. So then you should look up the verses in Greek, and you will not find any such word there. The KJV translators thought they were being helpful, but they simply caused confusion. Once you omit reading the word "unknown", and substitute - correctly -- "language" for glossa or glossais, the excuse to talk about unknow tongues disappears. These are actual foreign languages. But do you think I will get anyone to investigate this carefully?

Check these out since they omit the words unknown and tongue:
New International Version
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
English Standard Version
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For the person who speaks in another language is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.
Literal Standard Version
for he who is speaking in an [unknown] tongue—he does not speak to men, but to God, for no one listens, and he speaks secrets in spirit;

What this verse says in true. Unless there is an interpreter only God knows what is being said. Therefore Paul insisted that someone interpret, or the speaker pray that he may interpret. (v 5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. (v 13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

So if you (or anyone) is NOT interpreting you are actually in violation of Scripture. So tell us if (a) you speak actual foreign languages and (b) then interpret what you said. If not your "tongue" is definitely not from the Holy Spirit. All the gifts are for the edification of others, not self-edification. That's where "charity" come in.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You have misinterpreted this scripture. There is nothing "perfect" until we stand before Jesus face to face.

So you are telling Christians here that the Holy bible is neither complete nor perfect. Imagine that.