🖐️🔥 Laying hands for healing today?

[Lamar]

make Jesus Lord of your life say this Prayer with me and mean it with all your ability.

Regardless of how sincere you think your faith may be, do not be fooled. You may think you "mean it" but you will not know by trusting your heart.

Jeremiah 17:9
New International Version
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?


Mark 7:21-23
New International Version
For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Salvation is found in obedience. We may debate what is needed to be obeyed but certainly not the need to obey.

Samuel 15:22
And Samuel said, “Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The Spirit didn't move from the TV to the person praying. He is omnipresent.

I was meaning Hollywood in the way they portray ghosts coming out of TVs and mirrors etc

Think about this !

The Anointing did. You need to study.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Regardless of how sincere you think your faith may be, do not be fooled. You may think you "mean it" but you will not know by trusting your heart.

Jeremiah 17:9
New International Version
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?


Mark 7:21-23
New International Version
For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Salvation is found in obedience. We may debate what is needed to be obeyed but certainly not the need to obey.

Samuel 15:22
And Samuel said, “Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

If you just listened to the Gospel preached on tv, radio, from a testimony, that's the requirement to believe.
So they are believing because they heard.
So I stand by my post.

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Messiah.

13 After you heard the message of truth—the Good News of your salvation—and when you put your trust in Him, you were sealed with the promised Ruach ha-Kodesh.

 

[Lamar]

So they are believing because they heard.

And they know this...why?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

And they know this...why?

Because the Bible says it is why.

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Messiah.

13 After you heard the message of truth—the Good News of your salvation—and when you put your trust in Him, you were sealed with the promised Ruach ha-Kodesh.

 

[wattie]

The Anointing did. You need to study.

You mean the dove descending upon Jesus?

That's an exceptional thing, and it's about Jesus. I know a commentator who said it's a picture of the Trinity in action. That it is something already happening.

Not that the Holy Spirit wasn't already descending continually on Jesus. Almost like a continuous spiritual stream descending on Jesus for want of a better illustration.

If someone believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, He instantly sends the Holy Spirit to seal their soul. That's moving in a way that is omnipresent. The point of origin is every where rather than one specific place.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You mean the dove descending upon Jesus?

That's an exceptional thing, and it's about Jesus. I know a commentator who said it's a picture of the Trinity in action. That it is something already happening.

Not that the Holy Spirit wasn't already descending continually on Jesus. Almost like a continuous spiritual stream descending on Jesus for want of a better illustration.

If someone believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, He instantly sends the Holy Spirit to seal their soul. That's moving in a way that is omnipresent. The point of origin is every where rather than one specific place. He doesn't dwell in physical objects.

The dove is just a manifestation. Jesus is a manifestation in flesh. The Bible shows us many examples of God manifesting Himself from a Fire in a bush, a Cloud by day, Pillar of Fire by night, Angel of the Lord, etc...

The Anointing is what Ministers have that lay persons do not have in the same volume for their positions are different. Even we see in the example where Jacob had his sons and sons of Joseph put their right hand under the right thigh and transferred the inheritance and Blessing. It's even done by touching on the body where the heart is basically located.

14 And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh

 

[Lamar]

Because the Bible says it is why.

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Messiah.

13 After you heard the message of truth—the Good News of your salvation—and when you put your trust in Him, you were sealed with the promised Ruach ha-Kodesh.

Once again, how do you know this your faith is sincere enough?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Once again, how do you know this your faith is sincere enough?

Not everyone struggles as you seem to do.
I am assured anyone saved knew their Faith was sincere.

 

[CS1]

Here's a List of People, some were Disciples of John, that claim Signs and Wonders end when we see the FACE of JESUS at the Rapture.
[Even the Reformer John Calvin, who Spoke in Tongues, claims it ends at when we see God]

From Church Fathers to Reformers all believe the Perfect to Come (τὸ τέλειον) is seeing God or when we die and see God:

Irenaeus understood τὸ τέλειον to refer to seeing God

Tertullian takes face to face to refer to the visible manifestation of Jesus.

Clement’s view of the passage is quite clear. He first cites verses eight and thirteen and then alludes to verse ten in his explanation. τὸ τέλειον is the believer’s state when he sees God.

Origen cites both verse twelve (“face to face”) and verse ten (“that which is perfect”) is about God.

Cyprian cites 1 Corinthians 13:12 (“seeing through a glass”) a “the secrets of God cannot be seen through now but face to face we shall know."

Eusebius states, “The apostle thought it necessary that the prophetic gift should continue in all the Church until the final coming of Jesus."

Methodius uses τὸ τέλειον in reference to the return of Christ and the events associated with it.

Basil relates τὸ τέλειον to complete (as opposed to partial) knowledge of the truth in heaven about God.

Ambrose addresses the issue of theodicy. In doing so he alludes to 1 Corinthians 13:9–10, relating the perfect to the future day when the believer will be face to face with God.

John Chrysostom identifies τὸ τέλειον with complete knowledge, which from the context of his remarks, will be when we see God.

Jerome wrote τὸ τέλειον refers to the state of perfection or Christian maturity that the believer reaches at death or when they see God.

Augustine pinned, the perfect to come is “When He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

Leo the Great wrote, ‘face to face’ is seeing the very Godhead ‘as He is.’

John Calvin wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection that comes to some extent at death, but only completely at the judgment.

Richard Baxter wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection reached at death.

Matthew Poole identifies τὸ τέλειον as heaven.

John Locke relates τὸ τέλειον to “the state of accomplishment and perfection” that comes “hereafter.”

Doodridge believes τὸ τέλειον to refer to the heavenly state.

Gill identifies τὸ τέλειον as the perfect knowledge of God in the life to come.

Wesley includes this terse explanation of τὸ τέλειον: “at death and in the last day.

Don't say John Calvin spoke in tongues hanging out The Huguenots, LOL. John McCarthur will have to revamp his Strange Fire book LOL.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Don't say John Calvin spoke in tongues hanging out The Huguenots, LOL. John McCarthur will have to revamp his Strange Fire book LOL.

Amen and I specifically mentioned that knowing it would raise some eyebrows in here LOL

 

[CS1]

Here's a List of People, some were Disciples of John, that claim Signs and Wonders end when we see the FACE of JESUS at the Rapture.
[Even the Reformer John Calvin, who Spoke in Tongues, claims it ends at when we see God]

From Church Fathers to Reformers all believe the Perfect to Come (τὸ τέλειον) is seeing God or when we die and see God:

Irenaeus understood τὸ τέλειον to refer to seeing God

Tertullian takes face to face to refer to the visible manifestation of Jesus.

Clement’s view of the passage is quite clear. He first cites verses eight and thirteen and then alludes to verse ten in his explanation. τὸ τέλειον is the believer’s state when he sees God.

Origen cites both verse twelve (“face to face”) and verse ten (“that which is perfect”) is about God.

Cyprian cites 1 Corinthians 13:12 (“seeing through a glass”) a “the secrets of God cannot be seen through now but face to face we shall know."

Eusebius states, “The apostle thought it necessary that the prophetic gift should continue in all the Church until the final coming of Jesus."

Methodius uses τὸ τέλειον in reference to the return of Christ and the events associated with it.

Basil relates τὸ τέλειον to complete (as opposed to partial) knowledge of the truth in heaven about God.

Ambrose addresses the issue of theodicy. In doing so he alludes to 1 Corinthians 13:9–10, relating the perfect to the future day when the believer will be face to face with God.

John Chrysostom identifies τὸ τέλειον with complete knowledge, which from the context of his remarks, will be when we see God.

Jerome wrote τὸ τέλειον refers to the state of perfection or Christian maturity that the believer reaches at death or when they see God.

Augustine pinned, the perfect to come is “When He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

Leo the Great wrote, ‘face to face’ is seeing the very Godhead ‘as He is.’

John Calvin wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection that comes to some extent at death, but only completely at the judgment.

Richard Baxter wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection reached at death.

Matthew Poole identifies τὸ τέλειον as heaven.

John Locke relates τὸ τέλειον to “the state of accomplishment and perfection” that comes “hereafter.”

Doodridge believes τὸ τέλειον to refer to the heavenly state.

Gill identifies τὸ τέλειον as the perfect knowledge of God in the life to come.

Wesley includes this terse explanation of τὸ τέλειον: “at death and in the last day.

Jerome, who translated the Latin Vulgate, also known as the Hebrew Bible :
Jerome wrote τὸ τέλειον refers to the state of perfection or Christian maturity that the believer reaches at death or when they see God.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Jerome, who translated the Latin Vulgate, also known as the Hebrew Bible :
Jerome wrote τὸ τέλειον refers to the state of perfection or Christian maturity that the believer reaches at death or when they see God.

Exactly, so that removes the idea the Bible being finished is the "Perfect to Come" that many Cessasionist want to claim.

 

[wattie]

Exactly, so that removes the idea the Bible being finished is the "Perfect to Come" that many Cessasionist want to claim.[/QUOTE]

No it doesn't. You might be surprised to know many supposed church fathers were faulty on their interpretation of scripture.

The bible interprets itself.

But in regards to the perfect thing or that which is perfect.. cessationists don't hang their hat on 1 co 13. There are other streams of biblical evidence that put together with 1 co 13, make it cessation of sign gifts.

One line of evidence is the fact of tge apostles dieing, inspiration of scripture finishing and the Jewish temple being destroyed .

I'd have to assume these events had no affect on miracles, prophecy, tongues and knowledge gifts.

 

[JohnDB]

Here's a List of People, some were Disciples of John, that claim Signs and Wonders end when we see the FACE of JESUS at the Rapture.
[Even the Reformer John Calvin, who Spoke in Tongues, claims it ends at when we see God]

From Church Fathers to Reformers all believe the Perfect to Come (τὸ τέλειον) is seeing God or when we die and see God:

Irenaeus understood τὸ τέλειον to refer to seeing God

Tertullian takes face to face to refer to the visible manifestation of Jesus.

Clement’s view of the passage is quite clear. He first cites verses eight and thirteen and then alludes to verse ten in his explanation. τὸ τέλειον is the believer’s state when he sees God.

Origen cites both verse twelve (“face to face”) and verse ten (“that which is perfect”) is about God.

Cyprian cites 1 Corinthians 13:12 (“seeing through a glass”) a “the secrets of God cannot be seen through now but face to face we shall know."

Eusebius states, “The apostle thought it necessary that the prophetic gift should continue in all the Church until the final coming of Jesus."

Methodius uses τὸ τέλειον in reference to the return of Christ and the events associated with it.

Basil relates τὸ τέλειον to complete (as opposed to partial) knowledge of the truth in heaven about God.

Ambrose addresses the issue of theodicy. In doing so he alludes to 1 Corinthians 13:9–10, relating the perfect to the future day when the believer will be face to face with God.

John Chrysostom identifies τὸ τέλειον with complete knowledge, which from the context of his remarks, will be when we see God.

Jerome wrote τὸ τέλειον refers to the state of perfection or Christian maturity that the believer reaches at death or when they see God.

Augustine pinned, the perfect to come is “When He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

Leo the Great wrote, ‘face to face’ is seeing the very Godhead ‘as He is.’

John Calvin wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection that comes to some extent at death, but only completely at the judgment.

Richard Baxter wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection reached at death.

Matthew Poole identifies τὸ τέλειον as heaven.

John Locke relates τὸ τέλειον to “the state of accomplishment and perfection” that comes “hereafter.”

Doodridge believes τὸ τέλειον to refer to the heavenly state.

Gill identifies τὸ τέλειον as the perfect knowledge of God in the life to come.

Wesley includes this terse explanation of τὸ τέλειον: “at death and in the last day.

You will have to show the exact scriptures that state that the time of signs and wonders never ends until we see God face-to-face.

Because it isn't in my Bible. Of course we have the Holy Spirit....and He will never leave us....but to claim that Jesus was wrong.....that's a whole nudder cridder. One I'm not willing to do....like EVER.
YMMV.

 

[Lamar]

Not everyone struggles as you seem to do.
I am assured anyone saved knew their Faith was sincere.

If you are not going to answer the question, just don't respond.

 

[CS1]

Exactly, so that removes the idea the Bible being finished is the "Perfect to Come" that many Cessasionist want to claim.

No it doesn't. You might be surprised to know many supposed church fathers were faulty on their interpretation of scripture.

The bible interprets itself.

But in regards to the perfect thing or that which is perfect.. cessationists don't hang their hat on 1 co 13. There are other streams of biblical evidence that put together with 1 co 13, make it cessation of sign gifts.

One line of evidence is the fact of tge apostles dieing, inspiration of scripture finishing and the Jewish temple being destroyed .

I'd have to assume these events had no affect on miracles, prophecy, tongues and knowledge gifts.[/QUOTE]
you might be surprised so are many in this site LOL

 

[CS1]

Exactly, so that removes the idea the Bible being finished is the "Perfect to Come" that many Cessasionist want to claim.

No it doesn't. You might be surprised to know many supposed church fathers were faulty on their interpretation of scripture.

The bible interprets itself.

But in regards to the perfect thing or that which is perfect.. cessationists don't hang their hat on 1 co 13. There are other streams of biblical evidence that put together with 1 co 13, make it cessation of sign gifts.

One line of evidence is the fact of tge apostles dieing, inspiration of scripture finishing and the Jewish temple being destroyed .

I'd have to assume these events had no affect on miracles, prophecy, tongues and knowledge gifts.[/QUOTE]
FYI, CESSATIONISTS can't hang their hat on 1cor 13:8-10 because they lied and tried to use some biblical mumbo jumbo, acting like some of the Charismatics they hate with their word salads hahahahaha

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Exactly, so that removes the idea the Bible being finished is the "Perfect to Come" that many Cessasionist want to claim.

What CS1 wrote

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

If you are not going to answer the question, just don't respond.

Are you trying to say if someone hears the Gospel and thinks to them self I believe this that they don't actually know if they really do or not?