Total Depravity
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Just pointing out that David is for certain he would see his child again.
Samuel, the Prophet, under the Inspiration of God wrote this into account. He wasn't even there to witness the event. God led him to write it. So it's Inspired by God. I take it as Gospel then knowing it comes directly from God through Samuel.
Samuel, the Prophet, under the Inspiration of God wrote this into account. He wasn't even there to witness the event. God led him to write it. So it's Inspired by God. I take it as Gospel then knowing it comes directly from God through Samuel.
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and let each of you be immersed in the name of Messiah Yeshua for the removal of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Ruach ha-Kodesh.
39 For the promise is for you and your children
Maybe David falls under verse 39: For the promise is for you and your children
I suppose anyone saved their children fall into this category. And when the children get saved their children are now under this Covenant.
39 For the promise is for you and your children
Maybe David falls under verse 39: For the promise is for you and your children
I suppose anyone saved their children fall into this category. And when the children get saved their children are now under this Covenant.
David's response is moreso that he can go down to the grave but that his kid can't come back up to him, which is why he had ceased mourning after the child had died. Though on this principle an interesting case can be found in the death of Jeroboam's child. We know that Jeroboam was incredibly evil in that he created new gods and idols to those gods because he feared that Israel would defect if they went up to Jerusalem. We also know that all the rest of Jeroboam's lineage were evil by reason that they maintained the cult of Jeroboam's false gods. Yet when Jeroboam's son falls sick and his wife goes to inquire of the prophet Ahijah the prophet remarks something very interesting.
1 Kings 14:5-13
5 And the Lord said unto Ahijah, Behold, the wife of Jeroboam cometh to ask a thing of thee for her son; for he is sick: thus and thus shalt thou say unto her: for it shall be, when she cometh in, that she shall feign herself to be another woman.
6 And it was so, when Ahijah heard the sound of her feet, as she came in at the door, that he said, Come in, thou wife of Jeroboam; why feignest thou thyself to be another? for I am sent to thee with heavy tidings.
7 Go, tell Jeroboam, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Forasmuch as I exalted thee from among the people, and made thee prince over my people Israel,
8 And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;
9 But hast done evil above all that were before thee: for thou hast gone and made thee other gods, and molten images, to provoke me to anger, and hast cast me behind thy back:
10 Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.
11 Him that dieth of Jeroboam in the city shall the dogs eat; and him that dieth in the field shall the fowls of the air eat: for the Lord hath spoken it.
12 Arise thou therefore, get thee to thine own house: and when thy feet enter into the city, the child shall die.
13 And all Israel shall mourn for him, and bury him: for he only of Jeroboam shall come to the grave, because in him there is found some good thing toward the Lord God of Israel in the house of Jeroboam.
1 Kings 14:5-13
5 And the Lord said unto Ahijah, Behold, the wife of Jeroboam cometh to ask a thing of thee for her son; for he is sick: thus and thus shalt thou say unto her: for it shall be, when she cometh in, that she shall feign herself to be another woman.
6 And it was so, when Ahijah heard the sound of her feet, as she came in at the door, that he said, Come in, thou wife of Jeroboam; why feignest thou thyself to be another? for I am sent to thee with heavy tidings.
7 Go, tell Jeroboam, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Forasmuch as I exalted thee from among the people, and made thee prince over my people Israel,
8 And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;
9 But hast done evil above all that were before thee: for thou hast gone and made thee other gods, and molten images, to provoke me to anger, and hast cast me behind thy back:
10 Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.
11 Him that dieth of Jeroboam in the city shall the dogs eat; and him that dieth in the field shall the fowls of the air eat: for the Lord hath spoken it.
12 Arise thou therefore, get thee to thine own house: and when thy feet enter into the city, the child shall die.
13 And all Israel shall mourn for him, and bury him: for he only of Jeroboam shall come to the grave, because in him there is found some good thing toward the Lord God of Israel in the house of Jeroboam.
Sure David believed in the resurrection. So what it is is that David's point here is that he mourned and fasted while the child was yet alive because he thought God might have mercy upon him, but after the child had died he had stopped mourning because now he cannot bring the child back up to him but he can only go down to the grave with the child in this lifetime. Though perhaps at the resurrection they shall see eachother again. This is not really a point David is making about age of accountability or inheritted sin, but rather on the nature of mourning and the finality of death. Hence the example of Jeroboam's child dying young I think makes for a more applicable example.
And that is the million dollar question. When is a baby sinful? At what point will a baby/child begin sinning? From Adam to Noah, man chose who he would believe and we see from Seth to Noah they believed. And they were natural men. It wasn't until Abram/Abraham people were circumcised. Before Abraham, we see many accounts of righteous men. Enoch especially. He was resurrected before he died and never was circumcised.
Well the answer is simply people are not born sinful, they do not inherit their parents sin and we do not inherit Adam's sin. They become sinful when they learn sin and they receive conflicting information from the world. Since sin enterred the world then it is as we age we begin picking up this conflicting information from the world and this why we sin. As I remarked in the last post of the previous page, there is a lot of verses really about how it is the world that is fallen and corrupted and how the world is in enmity with God. We are not born with inheritted sin nor an inherent sin nature, we are born sinless and good just like God desgined us, but we will fall short and commit sin when we conform to the world.
Well that's somewhat close, but then that would be option 2 which is to say we have an inherent propensity to sin, but this is also not the case because God did not make us to be sinful nor does God tempt. What it is is that we don't have such a nature nor an inheritted sin, but the world was corrupted when Adam committed sin and the world is still present and so the conflicting information that turns us from God is from the world and the influences of the world and at some point, yes, we all will give in to the world's influence and thus sin. One cited James 1 earlier about the wisdom from above and was a good citation indeed, but consider also James 3 and James 4 among many other scriptures that detail how the world and worldliness is the reason for people committing sin.
James 3:13-15
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
James 4:4
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
James 3:13-15
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
James 4:4
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
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