There will be no Rapture!!!

[TheDivineWatermark]

The White Throne Judgment is unto life, or second death.
That is the Last day of that which is temporal and seen.

I have a couple of other questions that I can't seem to reconcile in my mind, based on what you've written here (and others):

You are suggesting "the last day" occurs at the point in time of "The White Throne Judgment"

(rather than being "the last millennium / the third day [of Hos5:14-6:3] / the 7th day [Ex31:13,17 "it is A SIGN..."] / 7th Millennium / the "sabbatismos" [Heb4:9]);


So...

I read about the Great White Throne (time-slot) as saying this, in Rev20:11 -

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."


In other words, I'm not seeing this as occurring at the same time AS "the last day" (if a "24-hr day"), but after such... when nothing temporal and seen is... seen. lol




Secondly, I'm not able to figure out what *you* seem to be referring by "rapture [G726]" (when you say it will happen "on the last day") where you then INCLUDE "the dead [unsaved]" of all times as ALSO standing before this throne:
Are you suggesting that both the Sheep AND the goats are "caught up [/raptured / snatched - G726]" IN ORDER to stand before this throne?
How is it that they (both groups) GOT THERE unless your view of the "rapture" event ("on the last day" as you put it) ALSO *includes* the goats (unsaved)?

 

[Musicmaster]

i don’t deny that Jesus is coming back and i’m trying to figure out which part of my post you are refuting

It appears that you were saying that He is only coming back once, and I showed that He is coming back twice...once to gather together the Church from this earth with His feet not touching down upon this earth since it clearly says that we will meet Him in the air, and the "second coming" only refers to when His feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives and it splits in two, with half going north and the other half going south.

The rapture of the Church happens before the start of the tribulation. I have VERY good reason for that belief, which is why I continue to study it all to this day.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

when you look at some of the eyewitness testimonies of what happened in 70 ad and 3 1/2 years leading up to that event, they talk about the chariots of fire in the sky and the armies in the sky.. now i’m not sure how to put that with the whole of prophecy however i have a feeling that those who pierced him did see something and whatever it was destroyed them.

i don’t call those devils in black garb who practice blood magic out of the babylonian talmud and claim to be judah, Gods chosen.

They are the children of esau parading like they did when they stood against jesus, their own writings reveal who they are but most importantly their works reveal them being the tares just as Jesus told us

peace unto you brother🙏

The prophet Zechariah did not say that seeing Yahshuah brought about their destruction, but rather their repentance for having pierced and rejected Yahshuah. Those stories of which you speak are not inspired scripture that would ever overshadow anything in prophecy, nor do they lend anything to our understanding. The enemy of our souls is always at work to cloud understanding of prophecy and Law, and so I take history with a grain of salt when it speaks of mystical stuff like what you described.

As an Israelite, I'm forced to consider many things, but some histories are simply fabrications of the imaginations of the people in the past.

MM

 

[Iconoclast]

I have a couple of other questions that I can't seem to reconcile in my mind, based on what you've written here (and others):

You are suggesting "the last day" occurs at the point in time of "The White Throne Judgment"

(rather than being "the last millennium / the third day [of Hos5:14-6:3] / the 7th day [Ex31:13,17 "it is A SIGN..."] / 7th Millennium / the "sabbatismos" [Heb4:9]);


So...

I read about the Great White Throne (time-slot) as saying this, in Rev20:11 -

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."


In other words, I'm not seeing this as occurring at the same time AS "the last day" (if a "24-hr day"), but after such... when nothing temporal and seen is... seen. lol




Secondly, I'm not able to figure out what *you* seem to be referring by "rapture [G726]" (when you say it will happen "on the last day") where you then INCLUDE "the dead [unsaved]" of all times as ALSO standing before this throne:
Are you suggesting that both the Sheep AND the goats are "caught up [/raptured / snatched - G726]" IN ORDER to stand before this throne?
How is it that they (both groups) GOT THERE unless your view of the "rapture" event ("on the last day" as you put it) ALSO *includes* the goats (unsaved)?

Do not over think it. Jesus said all will be raised up. 1thess4:13 describes what happens to Christians who had already died in the first century, Rev.tells us what happens at the Great White Throne. Mt 13 says it is the end of the world. Why try and invent other things to fit into some wild speculation. Job.19:25
Job 19:25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The Greek word "G529 - apantesis" is used in the LXX / Septuagint something like 34 times.




The following verse is one such time... (show me where THIS WORD *means* [both] "to meet AND RETURN," like she says):


"21 When David came to the two hundred men who had been too exhausted to follow him from the Brook of Besor, they came out to meet him and the troops with him. As David approached the men, he greeted them," - 1 Samuel 30:21

-- https://biblehub.com/bsb/1_samuel/30.htm




There is NO sense of "to meet AND RETURN" being conveyed in this text, just "to meet"... that's it!






The CONTEXT (where used) would determine the WHERE NEXT of things, not simply this word alone (as though this word itself carries the additional idea of also RETURNing... it doesn't).










Here's the LIST of those 34x this Greek word is used in the LXX -

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g529/kjv/lxx/0-1/

You are literally drawing at straws when the Bible is plain on things. There's one absolute fact, there are NO verses telling us when we are raptured we go to Heaven. Many scriptures tell us we go to the clouds and the air. And that is exactly where we will go and NOWHERE else in that Biblical context.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

i’m just happy that there is a place to discuss the word of God with my brethren, i dont use any social media i’d say this is the closest thing i have to conversing with the body of Christ
🙏🙏🙏
i hope we can continue edifying each other
“iron sharpens iron”

Amen Brother

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Do not over think it.

= ) I'm not trying to "over think it".

I'm trying to ascertain what *you* do with certain scriptures... like:

--"and we which are ALIVE and remain unto..." [the point in time this is speaking to], 1Th4, because so far in our discussion, the only thing you seem to be acknowledging is "bodily RESURRECTION [from the dead]"--but what about the "still-living" ones [believers] at the time being spoken of, which is also what the following verses speak to:



--"this MORTAL must put on immortality," 1Cor15 (whereas the other phrase in this text refers to "the DEAD in Christ"/"who SLEEP through Jesus"); and "but clothed-upon [i.e. glorified bodies] *that* MORTALITY might be SWALLOWED UP *OF LIFE*," 2Cor5

(both of these latter verses speaking of the "still-living" ones [believers] at the time-slot being spoken of [the time of "our Rapture" (when we are "changed"/glorified bodies)--which, btw, "rapture" also INCLUDES the members of the Church which is His body WHO'VE DIED before that point, who will indeed be "bodily resurrected" just prior to our being "caught up [G726] TOGETHER... to the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"];
but in the verses I'm bringing forward at the moment, these in particular speak only of that portion of the One Body who will be "still-ALIVE" at the time being spoken of.)

Jesus said all will be raised up. 1thess4:13 describes what happens to Christians who had already died in the first century,

And that 1Th4 passage speaks to more than just those who've DIED.

Right?

Rev.tells us what happens at the Great White Throne.

What I see in that passage is, that it is about "the dead" (i.e. the unsaved "dead" of all times) being "delivered up" (for the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in the Isaiah 24:21,22b[,23]; which passage perfectly parallels the SEQUENCE ALSO found in Rev19 & 20--that is, BOTH this Isaiah passage and Rev passages have TWO JUDGMENTS separated by (some) TIME, which the "Amill-teaching" does not acknowledge, in either of these passages):


--Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / [20:5a] = Isaiah 24:21's FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in this Isa passage (at His Second Coming to the earth / Armageddon time-slot);

--Rev20:11-15 (GWTj) = Isaiah 24:22b's SECOND "PUNISH" word (separated by TIME, from that of the FIRST mention of "PUNISH" in this Isa passage)

Mt 13 says it is the end of the world.

"the end [singular] of the age [singular]"...

... which is followed by what HE HAD JUST TALKED ABOUT in 12:32 "the age [singular] to come," which His disciples UNDERSTOOD to mean (what we now call) "the MK AGE" (earthly-located)

Why try and invent other things to fit into some wild speculation.

Not trying to "invent other things"...

... trying to READ the Bible and understand it...

... and also trying to understand how *you* are seeing these various passages, or... not. lol

Job.19:25
Job 19:25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Yes, Job even understood that his "redeemer" (Jesus) will STAND UPON THE EARTH in the last day (the last millennium). = )
And that he would be bodily-resurrected to see Him for himself (on the earth). Job understood this;
Daniel was also promised this (Dan12:13);
and Martha also well-knew this (Jn11:24 "I KNOW," she said);

just as ALL OT saints also WELL KNEW.

(This is even what Jn8:56 is speaking to, so Abraham well-knew it too!)




____________

So when Paul said (to the Church which is His body), "Behold, I SHEW you A MYSTERY" ("mystery"--something "as yet" unrevealed / undisclosed, but is NOW being revealed, via Paul [from the ascended/exalted Christ])... and then says, "THIS mortal" (referring specifically to the "STILL-ALIVE" members of the One Body), and "THIS corruptible" (referring specifically to "the DEAD in Christ" members of the One Body), he is not just simply repeating what all OT saints already WELL-KNEW (which had ALREADY BEEN made known in OT times).

____________





Anyway, I appreciate the discussion. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. = )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Thank you for your response, MikeIsraelite72 ,

matthew 24 presents 2 questions to jesus.
1) referring to the end of the temple
2) refers to the end of the age

luke 21 indeed corresponding to the end of the temple as well as the gospel being preached to every creature,

Okay. Please allow me to focus in on this ^ portion of your post (I've bolded)...


[note: I acknowledge that Lk21:12-24a,b is covering the 70ad events--as well as "Lk21:5-7 / Mt24:1-3a / Mk13:1-4" in those chapters' prefaces/intro's, so to speak]


However, I want to zero in on what you said (in the bold portion ^ ), and ask my question:

What verses in Luke 21 indicate (from your perspective) "the gospel being preached to every creature" ?

If you can respond to just that one question (regarding the text of "Luke 21"), I'd appreciate it.


(and that's IF this is what you'd meant... about the text of Luke 21)

i did quote Paul in earlier posts referring to this being accomplished THEN the temple was destroyed as Jesus prophecied

yes, I recall... I want to focus in on the Luke 21 text for the moment.

(but "I hear you"... be assured, I understand whereof you speak)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

All come forth.....For The Sheep and Goat Judgment

Mt.25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

My question in this post is:

Do you see any correspondence between the verse above ( ^ the one I bolded) and the following verse:

-- "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you [unto "the 12"], That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel." - Matthew 19:28 (Luke 22:30)... [speaking of their sitting on "12 thrones" and "judgING" in an ongoing sense... i.e. governing]

 

[Iconoclast]

= ) I'm not trying to "over think it".

I'm trying to ascertain what *you* do with certain scriptures... like:

--"and we which are ALIVE and remain unto..." [the point in time this is speaking to], 1Th4, because so far in our discussion, the only thing you seem to be acknowledging is "bodily RESURRECTION [from the dead]"--but what about the "still-living" ones [believers] at the time being spoken of, which is also what the following verses speak to:

Those who are still alive....are changed before they can blink an eye. The dead are raised up at the same time.!Cor.15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



--"this MORTAL must put on immortality," 1Cor15 (whereas the other phrase in this text refers to "the DEAD in Christ"/"who SLEEP through Jesus"); and "but clothed-upon [i.e. glorified bodies] *that* MORTALITY might be SWALLOWED UP *OF LIFE*," 2Cor5

(both of these latter verses speaking of the "still-living" ones [believers] at the time-slot being spoken of [the time of "our Rapture" (when we are "changed"/glorified bodies)--which, btw, "rapture" also INCLUDES the members of the Church which is His body WHO'VE DIED before that point, who will indeed be "bodily resurrected" just prior to our being "caught up [G726] TOGETHER... to the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"];
but in the verses I'm bringing forward at the moment, these in particular speak only of that portion of the One Body who will be "still-ALIVE" at the time being spoken of.)


And that 1Th4 passage speaks to more than just those who've DIED.

Right?

We do agree on a few things.

What I see in that passage is, that it is about "the dead" (i.e. the unsaved "dead" of all times) being "delivered up" (for the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in the Isaiah 24:21,22b[,23]; which passage perfectly parallels the SEQUENCE ALSO found in Rev19 & 20--that is, BOTH this Isaiah passage and Rev passages have TWO JUDGMENTS separated by (some) TIME, which the "Amill-teaching" does not acknowledge, in either of these passages):

Isa.1-39 speak primarily of Historical judgments that have taken place in history.
Christians have already been judged at the Cross. One judgment left, where the wicked go into second death.

--Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / [20:5a] = Isaiah 24:21's FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in this Isa passage (at His Second Coming to the earth / Armageddon time-slot);

--Rev20:11-15 (GWTj) = Isaiah 24:22b's SECOND "PUNISH" word (separated by TIME, from that of the FIRST mention of "PUNISH" in this Isa passage)

Isa 24....day of the Lord judgment on 1st century Jerusalem.

"the end [singular] of the age [singular]"...

... which is followed by what HE HAD JUST TALKED ABOUT in 12:32 "the age [singular] to come," which His disciples UNDERSTOOD to mean (what we now call) "the MK AGE" (earthly-located)

They were wrong on the millennium.

Not trying to "invent other things"...

... trying to READ the Bible and understand it...

... and also trying to understand how *you* are seeing these various passages, or... not. lol

Again, I like that you are attempting to work through the passages
____________

So when Paul said (to the Church which is His body), "Behold, I SHEW you A MYSTERY" ("mystery"--something "as yet" unrevealed / undisclosed, but is NOW being revealed, via Paul [from the ascended/exalted Christ])... and then says, "THIS mortal" (referring specifically to the "STILL-ALIVE" members of the One Body), and "THIS corruptible" (referring specifically to "the DEAD in Christ" members of the One Body), he is not just simply repeating what all OT saints already WELL-KNEW (which had ALREADY BEEN made known in OT times).
___________

Anyway, I appreciate the discussion. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. = )

Isa 24:19-23
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

SUN ,Moon, Stars=Day of the Lord Judgment here on babylon
ISA.13:
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa34:
Judgment on EDOM;
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Same language for the destruction of 1st century Jerusalem; Mt.24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[speaking of their sitting on "12 thrones" and "judgING" in an ongoing sense... i.e. governing]

Which ^ (I'd wanted to add) corresponds also with the following idea expressed in Acts 17:31 -

"because He has fixed [/established] a day [not "a singular 24-hr day" kind of day] in which He will judge [in an ongoing sense, i.e. governing/ruling] the world in righteousness through [/in or by] a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

 

[Iconoclast]

My question in this post is:

Do you see any correspondence between the verse above ( ^ the one I bolded) and the following verse:

-- "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you [unto "the 12"], That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel." - Matthew 19:28 (Luke 22:30)... [speaking of their sitting on "12 thrones" and "judgING" in an ongoing sense... i.e. governing]

These sections in Lk.and MT. are fulfilling the Covenant Judgments from the Song Of Moses,ie, the Covenant curses of DEUT28-33
Remember, the promises of cursing or blessing??? Blessings Deut28.!-14, curses Deut.28:15-47...
Jesus said it was coming upon 1st century Jerusalem....watch;Lk.21: Same language, sun, moon, stars

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is at hand
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Take some time to see the position, even if you do not hold it yet.It all came to pass It has shifted from the earthly Jerusalem, to the heavenly Jerusalem. Jesus is the New Exodus leading us to Heaven.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[the other passages saying, "when the Son of man SHALL COME..."; ALL "Son of man shall come / coming / coming of / etc" passages speak of His Second Coming to the earth (to judge and to reign)...; Even Rev19:15b says (at that time-slot): "and He SHALL [future-tense, to that point in the chronology] rule [/shepherd] them [the nations] with a rod/sceptre of iron [/righteousness and strength]"]

 

[Iconoclast]

[the other passages saying, "when the Son of man SHALL COME..."; ALL "Son of man shall come / coming / coming of / etc" passages speak of His Second Coming to the earth (to judge and to reign)...; Even Rev19:15b says (at that time-slot): "and He SHALL [future-tense, to that point in the chronology] rule [/shepherd] them [the nations] with a rod/sceptre of iron [/righteousness and strength]"]

It was a "coming in judgment" upon that generation.....Not the physical return of the last day.

Where does the sign say He is???

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man...." in heaven: "
{He is on the throne bringing judgment on those in apostate Jerusalem}

and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

These sections in Lk.and MT. are fulfilling the Covenant Judgments from the Song Of Moses,ie, the Covenant curses of DEUT28-33
Remember, the promises of cursing or blessing??? Blessings Deut28.!-14, curses Deut.28:15-47...
Jesus said it was coming upon 1st century Jerusalem....watch;Lk.21: Same language, sun, moon, stars

Yes I do remember the promises of cursing and blessing (these are also reflected in the Sheep and goat separation-judgment of the nations, I'd pointed out earlier--but which "separation-judgment" you seem to believe is "future"/"on the last day" as you'd put it... which quite frankly, confuses me, as to how you seem to now view this in two DISTINCT ways [in 70ad AND the future GWTj]--how so? if you don't mind explaining...);




There are some "chronology / SEQUENCE issues" in the Olivet Discourse...

... so (taking that into consideration), when we view what Lk21:32 says (in relation to what v.24 had already just said), we mustn't fail to recognize that where v.32 states (said by Jesus):

"This generation shall not pass away TILL ALL SHALL HAVE TAKEN PLACE"... the "ALL" must necessarily INCLUDE the "of-lengthy-duration" items that v.24 had already spelled out:

"...AND they shall be led away captive into all the nations: AND Jerusalem shall be TRODDEN DOWN OF [Rev11:2] the Gentiles UNTIL the TIMES OF the Gentiles BE FULFILLED"

(the TIMES of the Gentiles--started in 606/5bc [think: Neb's "dream/statue/image," with Neb as "head of gold"]--and the "TRODDEN DOWN OF" referring to Gentile domination over Israel SINCE BACK THEN [which will not be CONCLUDED until Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19--the last of the statue/image has to come into play yet--"the beast that WAS, and IS NOT, and YET SHALL BE [future tense]" as John put it, in Rev17:8].)







[the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" being distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles BE COME IN [G1525]"]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

A few things here ^ :

--the angels (sent by Him) are said to "gather his elect FROM THE FOUR WINDS" (the entire sentence after the words "his elect" referring to their being gathered "from the extremities" [i.e. no place left out])... but in 70ad is WHEN "they shall be led away captive into all the nations"... IOW, you seem to have their judicial scattering happening AFTER their being "gathered" by the angels (which is the opposite sequence of things, clearly... lol);



--the phrase "[FROM] THE FOUR WINDS" is reflected in other passages speaking of (where) judicial SCATTERING had resulted; for example:

Jer49:36 - "And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven [/of the heavens], and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come." (speaking of their being "scattered" to all the nations); and

Dan11:4 - "And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven [/heavens]; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those." (speaking of his kingdom being divided... into 4... on the earth);



--I see the "GREAT" trumpet as corresponding to the "GREAT" one sounded in Isaiah 27:9,12-13 (where v.9 [CONTEXT] corresponds with both Romans 11:27[,15] and Daniel 9:24's TIME-prophecy re: Israel... not to mention, Jerusalem/"thy holy city"--whereas presently there is, "blindness [/a hardening]... UNTIL" [regarding them... at least, "IN PART" v.25]; where this "UNTIL" word corresponds to a NUMBER of OTHER "TILL / UNTIL" passages speaking to this SAME matter [and its particular timing], regarding "Israel" [Israel's "future"]);




--oh, and one more thing... the word for "tribes" here (in your quoted passage at top), I see in scripture is only ever used to refer to the "tribes" of Israel (Grk word: "tribe / tribes");
so where it says "when they SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS of heaven with power and great glory," you don't connect this with His Second Coming to the earth Rev19? am I reading you right?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

where this "UNTIL" word corresponds to a NUMBER of OTHER "TILL / UNTIL" passages speaking to this SAME matter [and its particular timing], regarding "Israel" [Israel's "future"]);

forgot to add this example (to go along with that ^ ):

"For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Matt23:39




[COMP: "they SHALL SEE..." Matt24:29-31 (opposite words)]

 

[Genez]

i’m confused by reply😒 i believe the word of God which speaks of 2 resurrections not Kirk Cameron and the pre trib post trib deception

I am afraid you must remain confused...

I can't help you as you would like me to.
I stick with the Bible.

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

The prophet Zechariah did not say that seeing Yahshuah brought about their destruction, but rather their repentance for having pierced and rejected Yahshuah. Those stories of which you speak are not inspired scripture that would ever overshadow anything in prophecy, nor do they lend anything to our understanding. The enemy of our souls is always at work to cloud understanding of prophecy and Law, and so I take history with a grain of salt when it speaks of mystical stuff like what you described.

As an Israelite, I'm forced to consider many things, but some histories are simply fabrications of the imaginations of the people in the past.

MM

agreeably, i also take the eyewitness reports with a grain of salt and in no way do they supercede anything in scripture however i believe in order to understand scripture and read it in context, all historical works need to be considered. regarding this scripture:

“Behold! He comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see Him, even whoever had pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn before Him. Yeah, truly!”

That word translated as whoever, οἵτινες, which is a form of ὅστις, refers to anyone who has pierced Him. This is not merely a reference to the Jews or the Roman soldiers of the first century. Rather, it is a warning to all of those who reject Christ, for when we reject Christ we uphold His crucifixion.

Consider what paul said in Hebrews chapter 6:

“For impossible it is, those once being enlightened both tasting of the heavenly gift and becoming partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasting of the good word of Yahweh and powers of the coming age 6 yet falling away, to restore again in repentance, upholding the crucifixion among themselves and making an example of the Son of Yahweh.”

This is exactly what many of our own Israelite people have done, people who have been Christians for centuries, by embracing humanism and hedonism and all the practices of the neo-Canaanites: the antichrist Jews who have now usurped our once-Christian society.

I consider the true israelites of God bring those who accepted the gospel as it was preached prior to the destruction of the temple in 70ad. these were where the Israelites are scattered and in everyplace they have gone since, to the north, to the south, to the east and to the west, God has blessed their society and built the greatest empires the world has seen until this time.

The antichrist Jews that the world and church acknowledged today are not the israelites of God, they are the canaanites of old, the house of esau; attempting to steal back the birthright of the sons of Jacob thereby deceiving the whole world.

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

I am afraid you must remain confused...

I can't help you as you would like me to.
I stick with the Bible.

where in scripture is there a pre trib rapture?
do you reject the 2 resurrections described in revelation and spoken of by the apostles?
do you reject the “short season” where satan deceived the world once again?

you probably worship the jews, children of esau, as well ; who are parading in Palestine currently huh? 🤦🏼‍♂️