There will be no Rapture!!!
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You do indeed overlook so much, and by missing so much to lump it in together with what does not match, that only shows to us the errors in your thinking.
After the resurrection of Yahshuah, only believers saw and touched Him, so His ascent was a secret event that no unbelievers could see. With His coming for the Church in like manner, only believers will see Him. The text betrays all this, even though you choose to ignore it. If this were not the case, the weeks He spent eating and talking with the disciples after HIs resurrection would have brought the Romans after Him yet again, but that was not the case because they could not see Him.
But, hey, you've at least explained the blinders you wear around your eyes to keep from seeing what you and some others here don't want to see, and that's ok. It's peripheral...
The "world" of unbelievers did not see Him ascending, and with Him coming in like manner, with no blood of His enemies on His garment, He will again come unseen to the unbelieving world, just as the angel stated. You, on the other hand, have your own wish for hos it should all play out contrary to what's said, and you are free to fall headlong into that nonsense.
MM
After the resurrection of Yahshuah, only believers saw and touched Him, so His ascent was a secret event that no unbelievers could see. With His coming for the Church in like manner, only believers will see Him. The text betrays all this, even though you choose to ignore it. If this were not the case, the weeks He spent eating and talking with the disciples after HIs resurrection would have brought the Romans after Him yet again, but that was not the case because they could not see Him.
But, hey, you've at least explained the blinders you wear around your eyes to keep from seeing what you and some others here don't want to see, and that's ok. It's peripheral...
The "world" of unbelievers did not see Him ascending, and with Him coming in like manner, with no blood of His enemies on His garment, He will again come unseen to the unbelieving world, just as the angel stated. You, on the other hand, have your own wish for hos it should all play out contrary to what's said, and you are free to fall headlong into that nonsense.
MM
There is a difference in meaning between the two distinct words G386 (from G450) and that of G726 (they do NOT have the "same meaning"):
--G386 - anastasis
"ἀνάστασις anástasis, an-as'-tas-is; from G450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)),
or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):—raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again."
So, where it says, "the dead in Christ SHALL RISE [G450] first"--this is speaking of their bodily resurrection from the dead (i.e. "to stand again [on the earth]")... which precedes the point in time (however brief) from that which "THEN" will take place: "caught up [G726] TOGETHER..." (i.e. raptured / SNATCHED [G726]... "TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR");
--G726 - harpagēsometha
"ἁρπάζω harpázō, har-pad'-zo; from a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications):—catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force)."
This word is used to refer to what we call "our Rapture"
Two VERY DISTINCT words and meanings.
--G386 - anastasis
"ἀνάστασις anástasis, an-as'-tas-is; from G450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)),
or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):—raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again."
So, where it says, "the dead in Christ SHALL RISE [G450] first"--this is speaking of their bodily resurrection from the dead (i.e. "to stand again [on the earth]")... which precedes the point in time (however brief) from that which "THEN" will take place: "caught up [G726] TOGETHER..." (i.e. raptured / SNATCHED [G726]... "TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR");
--G726 - harpagēsometha
"ἁρπάζω harpázō, har-pad'-zo; from a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications):—catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force)."
This word is used to refer to what we call "our Rapture"
Two VERY DISTINCT words and meanings.
I don't feel corrected because Jesus told Mary He was going to the Father and instructed Mary to tell the Disciples.
No Secret at all.
Jesus told us when He returns. He, even as KING having Authority in Heaven and on Earth, told us He would be with us to the End of the Age, the Second Coming.
So if there was a secret Rapture that would make Jesus a liar.
Pre-trib makes Jesus out to be a liar because it is based upon a ""secret rapture.""
No Secret at all.
Jesus told us when He returns. He, even as KING having Authority in Heaven and on Earth, told us He would be with us to the End of the Age, the Second Coming.
So if there was a secret Rapture that would make Jesus a liar.
Pre-trib makes Jesus out to be a liar because it is based upon a ""secret rapture.""
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I see you resisting the obvious, and that's ok. Lots of people do that. Yahshuah tarried for many days with the disciples after His resurrection, and before He ascended to go and prepare a place for us. Hs stated that emphatically, and all who don't like it, that's just how it is.
By calling it a "secret" rapture, the only portion of it that will be a secret is Yahshuah, for He will call us up to Him in the air, just as it is written...the part that you and others around here don't like. If He takes a moment to care about all the parts and portions you people don't like, then He has the power and time to do that. The people all around us will indeed notice our missing. Governments will likely downplay the event to defend against panic, but I don't think there will be enough being called up into the air with the Lord for it to be all that great a deal. Those movies showing billions of people disappearing, that likely won't be the case since most professing believers are not prepared and are not "watching" for His return. I don't know that piece of the puzzle. What we do know is that we are not reserved for wrath, and we know that the very beginning is indeed the wrath of the Lamb, and that our deliverance is a blessed hope where are not told one word anywhere that we will be on the brunt end of the wrath.
Do you not get that? Do you not understand what it means to be delivered FROM as opposed to delivered WITHIN? I would explain that to you, but you appear to WANT to be here experience the wrath of the Lamb. That Marine mentality is one that I don't possess. Nobody living through the death of half the world's population is going to feel as though they are tough and resilient. Every professing believer will either be shaking their fists at the heavens or crying out for deliverance, the time in which there is none EXCEPT for the Israelites who flee into the desert mountains over there in the area of Israel after Satan is booted out of Heaven and confined to this earth.
You're more brave than I am.
MM
By calling it a "secret" rapture, the only portion of it that will be a secret is Yahshuah, for He will call us up to Him in the air, just as it is written...the part that you and others around here don't like. If He takes a moment to care about all the parts and portions you people don't like, then He has the power and time to do that. The people all around us will indeed notice our missing. Governments will likely downplay the event to defend against panic, but I don't think there will be enough being called up into the air with the Lord for it to be all that great a deal. Those movies showing billions of people disappearing, that likely won't be the case since most professing believers are not prepared and are not "watching" for His return. I don't know that piece of the puzzle. What we do know is that we are not reserved for wrath, and we know that the very beginning is indeed the wrath of the Lamb, and that our deliverance is a blessed hope where are not told one word anywhere that we will be on the brunt end of the wrath.
Do you not get that? Do you not understand what it means to be delivered FROM as opposed to delivered WITHIN? I would explain that to you, but you appear to WANT to be here experience the wrath of the Lamb. That Marine mentality is one that I don't possess. Nobody living through the death of half the world's population is going to feel as though they are tough and resilient. Every professing believer will either be shaking their fists at the heavens or crying out for deliverance, the time in which there is none EXCEPT for the Israelites who flee into the desert mountains over there in the area of Israel after Satan is booted out of Heaven and confined to this earth.
You're more brave than I am.
MM
As to this comment, no. Yahshuah is the One who first spoke of His coming for the Church that He established:
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
There are those who will point out that He gave no details as to WHEN He will come for us in that statement, which is true. Yes.
However, it's also true that He did not state that the Church will suffering being battered and killed up to that point of His coming for us, so there is silence about ANY details for WHEN that will happen...until His disciples revealed the "mystery" and in many other things stated that are a blessed hope and that give reason as to the purpose for the 70 heptads of Jacob's trouble, none of which involves the Church.
All you tough guys out there who want to be here on earth while the Lamb pours out His wrath upon the earth at the opening of the very first seal, go for it! I pray for you all...even now. Yes, you tough guys who think that you can ride it all out to the very end, you will indeed need all the prayer you can get. We should all pray for one another right here in this forum, but there are some stone hearted individuals here who simply will not. I do pray for you all because of my love for you in Yahshuah.
One thing, however, is that it doesn't take bravery to believe in the Lord to leave you here to suffer His wrath. That's foolhardy. I trust in the Lord to deliver us from His wrath that He intends for stiff-necked Israel and for the unbelieving world that hates Him, and in that hate they want to see what the world is like without Him holding back evil and wickedness. If ever you've seen rats eat each other, you will have seen just a small sampling of what it will be like in those days from the very beginning until either the day you die or see His coming upon a white horse, and then to set His feet down upon the Mount of Olives and begin His destruction of the enemies of Israel and the subjugation of the nations, peoples and tongues.
No, my friend, YOU are the liar...I am the liar...we ALL are liars by comparison!
Romabs 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
MM
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
There are those who will point out that He gave no details as to WHEN He will come for us in that statement, which is true. Yes.
However, it's also true that He did not state that the Church will suffering being battered and killed up to that point of His coming for us, so there is silence about ANY details for WHEN that will happen...until His disciples revealed the "mystery" and in many other things stated that are a blessed hope and that give reason as to the purpose for the 70 heptads of Jacob's trouble, none of which involves the Church.
All you tough guys out there who want to be here on earth while the Lamb pours out His wrath upon the earth at the opening of the very first seal, go for it! I pray for you all...even now. Yes, you tough guys who think that you can ride it all out to the very end, you will indeed need all the prayer you can get. We should all pray for one another right here in this forum, but there are some stone hearted individuals here who simply will not. I do pray for you all because of my love for you in Yahshuah.
One thing, however, is that it doesn't take bravery to believe in the Lord to leave you here to suffer His wrath. That's foolhardy. I trust in the Lord to deliver us from His wrath that He intends for stiff-necked Israel and for the unbelieving world that hates Him, and in that hate they want to see what the world is like without Him holding back evil and wickedness. If ever you've seen rats eat each other, you will have seen just a small sampling of what it will be like in those days from the very beginning until either the day you die or see His coming upon a white horse, and then to set His feet down upon the Mount of Olives and begin His destruction of the enemies of Israel and the subjugation of the nations, peoples and tongues.
No, my friend, YOU are the liar...I am the liar...we ALL are liars by comparison!
Romabs 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
MM
^ When I write "please see this CONTEXT," I expect the readers to do likewise with the other passages I bring up (or which are uder discussion).
I've repeatedly stated that 1Th4:17 is NOT a "stand-alone verse"... it is in the CONTEXT of Paul talking ABOUT 3:13!
...and v.4:13-14 is NOT simply... as you say...
... but ALSO relates to 3:13's Subject
I've repeatedly stated that 1Th4:17 is NOT a "stand-alone verse"... it is in the CONTEXT of Paul talking ABOUT 3:13!
...and v.4:13-14 is NOT simply... as you say...
... but ALSO relates to 3:13's Subject