Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[PaulThomson]

I hate to tell everybody but Jesus told - actually commanded - unbelievers to work for the food (information) that lasts into eternal life which He gives as a gift.

And when asked what must we do to work the works of God, He said that that kind of effort (labouring for the food that last into aeonous life), namely, the word of God, is the kind of work/effort/.ergon God requires.

 

[PaulThomson]

What is required to keep the first commandment?

We need to abide in His love for us, so that we can keep abiding in love for Him, and so have NOW His pleasure as our utmost goal. Then we will be keeping His first commandment.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
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God's Eternal Life Assurance
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God's Eternal Life Insurance

That's a lot of work.

Thanks, appreciate all of your kind/encouraging words.

Care to provide any Scripture for discussion on what is customarily referred to as "[experiential] sanctification" aka "being saved"?

Precious friend, since my #1 Bible study Rule Is:

“Let All things be done Decently and In Order!” (1 Corinthians 14:40 AV),​

I believe this question should have been asked after this one, eh?:

Do you find that many argue with what God does in Justifying man by grace through faith aka "you were saved"?

Yes, that is what I have found, inside the Mass Confusion of
christendom, hence, this simple answer from my "God Of PEACE,
not confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33 AV):

God's Simple Will! [ aka Three Tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation ]

Also helpful is:

Free Salvation 'Qualifications' (D Sheridan Bible Study Articles)

Now, with these prayerfully and Carefully 'Considered', I believe
we have also shown The Scriptural Explanation For:

"[experiential] sanctification":​

{ Extracted from above study }:

►► love ◄◄

(2) Present Tense = "...God Doth Deliver us...":

All believers Should do "good works" { Which will Never
Equal CHRIST's Payment For the above Penalty of sin! },
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform
for Him, having "been Called into fellowship With Him!"
(Ephesians 2:10; 1 Corinthians 1:9 AV) Amen?:

We "work out our own salvation" (Philippians 2:12 AV). This
Should Be a lifetime of Daily submission, and renewing,
being "not conformed to this world" (Romans 12:1-2 AV),
for Grace Deliverance From the power of sin!}
(2 Corinthians 1:10b) = personal sanctification:

(2a) Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In "One Word: Love thy neighbor as thyself!"​

(Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)​

​

(2b) His Spirit Guiding and Teaching us, How To:

"Study to shew thyself Approved Unto God, a work-man​

that needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly ​

Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2:15)​

{ for all "co-labourers With God" v. 9 }:
Eternal Results: reward ( GOOD works Required! ) [ or loss (BAD works!) * ]
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV), ruling and reigning [or not *] With CHRIST, Which
Will Finally Be At The Judgment Day!

* More helpful study: Finishing The Race

►► love ◄◄
-------------------
With which @Cameron143 has already agreed, eh?:

While the Bible does make distinctions in aspects of salvation...saved from the penalty of sin, being saved from the power of sin, eventually saved from the presence of sin...

Thus, no "co-labourer With God" can extricate oneself From God's Eternal
Salvation "by his behaviour", which means "all the warnings about falling"
must then refer to "rewards or lack thereof" At The Judgment Seat Of Christ,
our Wonderful Saviour and Also Righteous Judge, Correct?

Conclusion for "all members of The Body Of Christ, Saved [ Eternally ]
By Grace Through faith", and then, being "co-labourers With God":

"If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he​

shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he​

shall suffer loss: but he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire."​

(1 Corinthians 3:14-15 AV)​

​

May God Very Richly Enrich, Encourage, and Edify us in any further discussion
of His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided * { finding simplification amongst all the
Corrupting Complexity of Mass confusion! }:

"The Simplicity Of Christ!" (2 Corinthians 11:3 AV)​

Amen.

---------------------------------

If you wish, further confusion-Solving Scriptures:

*
Basic Distinctions (14 + 4 more) Of Prophecy vs Mystery!
+
Update/Addition (#19 sell/work?)
+
Update/Addition (#20 Heal/infirmities?)
+
Update/Addition (#21 gather/catch Up?)
+
Update/Addition (#22 names/called ID ?)

 

[PaulThomson]

And when asked what must we do to work the works of God, He said that that kind of effort (labouring for the food that last into aeonous life), namely, the word of God, is the kind of work/effort/.ergon God requires.

And the reason we should be labouring for the word of God, is so that we may believe in the one whom God sent. We can't believe without first hearing and listening to what we should believe.

 

[rogerg]

Is the woman my saviour from drowning, despite my grabbing the rope to be saved? You claimed that if you do anything towards your own rescue, then the rescuer is no longer your saviour. Are you willing to admit that you were wrong. on that point?

Let's imagine I was dead and someone pulled me from the water without any cooperation from me, but while I was coming back to consciousness after CPR and mouth to mouth, I hallucinated that I had grabbed a rope thrown to me in order to be saved, and I was convinced that my hallucination was real. Would I not be truly rescued because I believed I had done somethinga as minor as grabbing a rope tossed to me? Would the rescuer be insulted that I thought I had contributed in some small way to my own rescue? What kind of person would my rescuer be to be so offended that I did not give them every gram of credit for my rescue, and so threw me into a furnace in their rage?

No, of course I'm not willing to admit that and this is getting absurd. You therefore are admitting and agreeing that in no way, shape or form, were you able to save yourself. Yes, or no?

 

[Cameron143]

To love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength. No one except Jesus has kept that commandment perfectly all the time, which is why we need a Saviour to free us from guilt over failing to do so. But you can know when you are keeping it, whenever God's will and pleasure are your prime concerns.

And your point is?

BTW, I note here that you did not answer my question.... again.

I wanted to finish one thing before beginning another. And you are correct...only Jesus has and can keep the commandments. This is why the only way we will ever keep any commandment is for us to be walking in the Spirit wherein Christ is living in and through us. Thus, the only time God's will and pleasure are our highest concern is when we are walking in the Spirit.
Now if you will be so kind as to pose your question again, I'll take a stab at it.

 

[Cameron143]

This is more of the same. You don't answer my questions and then complain I'm asking too many questions. At any rate, thanks for the discussion. Grace and peace.

 

[Cameron143]

And when asked what must we do to work the works of God, He said that that kind of effort (labouring for the food that last into aeonous life), namely, the word of God, is the kind of work/effort/.ergon God requires.

That kind of effort leads one to Christ. It doesn't save anyone. It merely leads them to the One who can save them.
The rich young ruler is a great example. The law led him to Christ. His insistence on dealing with God on the basis of the law led him sadly away. Rather than learn the lesson Christ was teaching and see from Jesus' request that he actually hadn't kept the law, he remained in unbelief.

 

[Cameron143]

And the reason we should be labouring for the word of God, is so that we may believe in the one whom God sent. We can't believe without first hearing and listening to what we should believe.

More on this...by creation, every creature is accountable to God, whether they believe so or not. Any commandment is for all those under the law.

 

[PaulThomson]

No, of course I'm not willing to admit that and this is getting absurd. You therefore are admitting and agreeing that in no way, shape or form, were you able to save yourself. Yes, or no?

I have always said we cannot save ourselves without God doing all the hard lifting. However, we are told to save ourselves from our perverse and crooked generation. So to claim we cannot save ourselves in any way, shape or form, would be to contradict scripture.

"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were immersed: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2: 40-41

 

[rogerg]

PaulThomson said:
Why does this follow? If I am drowning and a woman throws me a rope and I grab it and she drags me to a boat and to safety, how does my grabbing the rope, by which I cooperated with her, make her no longer my saviour? Please explain.


You didn't answer the question... again.

Is the woman my saviour from drowning, despite my grabbing the rope to be saved? You claimed that if you do anything towards your own rescue, then the rescuer is no longer your saviour. Are you willing to admit that you were wrong. on that point?

Let's imagine I was dead and someone pulled me from the water without any cooperation from me, but while I was coming back to consciousness after CPR and mouth to mouth, I hallucinated that I had grabbed a rope thrown to me in order to be saved, and I was convinced that my hallucination was real. Would I not be truly rescued because I believed I had done somethinga as minor as grabbing a rope tossed to me? Would the rescuer be insulted that I thought I had contributed in some small way to my own rescue? What kind of person would my rescuer be to be so offended that I did not give them every gram of credit for my rescue, and so threw me into a furnace in their rage?

Let's take this one step further since you said I didn't answer your question which I did answer, but anyway, continuing with your ridiculous analogy, let's assume you were dead but somehow brought back to life, and after that, you say to one of the rescuers "boy I'm sure glad I could help you" (even though you didn't help), yet you insist that you did, but since you kept insisting and repeating it, the rescuer finally says "not only did you not help but because of you my son had to jump into the water to rescue you and he drowned and died instead of you he could not be found to resuscitated him", and yet, even after all of that, you continued to insist that it wasn't true and that you did help and because of your help, the son was actually fine . Would the rescuer have the right to be angry with you? In actuality, and spiritually speaking, it doesn't work that way because when someone is given spiritual life, they are also given a renewed mind to perceive the truth and come to an understanding of the basis of their salvation.

 

[studier]

This is more of the same.

We are in agreement.

 

[PaulThomson]

Let's take this one step further since you said I didn't answer your question which I did answer, but anyway, continuing with your ridiculous analogy, let's assume you were dead but somehow brought back to life, and after that, you say to one of the rescuers "boy I'm sure glad I could help you" (even though you didn't help), yet you insist that you did, but since you kept insisting and repeating it, the rescuer finally says "not only did you not help but because of you my son had to jump into the water to rescue you and he drowned and died instead of you he could not be found to resuscitated him", and yet, even after all of that, you continued to insist that it wasn't true and that you did help and because of your help, the son was actually fine . Would the rescuer have the right to be angry with you? In actuality, and spiritually speaking, it doesn't work that way because when someone is given spiritual life, they are also given a renewed mind to perceive the truth and come to an understanding of the basis of their salvation.

No believer says to God, "Gee, I'm sure glad I helped you." You really are flailing into the realm of fantasy in your attempts to justify not answering my question. It's avery simple question:

If I am drowning and a woman throws me a rope and I grab it and she drags me to a boat and to safety, how does my grabbing the rope, by which I cooperated with her, make her no longer my saviour? Please explain. Is she really no longer my saviour?

 

[PaulThomson]

More on this...by creation, every creature is accountable to God, whether they believe so or not. Any commandment is for all those under the law.

You said, "More on this." But I can't see any relevance to your comments here to your previous post, or to my earlier post. Could you logically connect the dots, please?

 

[Cameron143]

You said, "More on this." But I can't see any relevance to your comments here to your previous post, or to my earlier post. Could you logically connect the dots, please?

The premise put forth was that commandments are applicable to nonbelievers. I was explaining why it is so.

 

[rogerg]

No believer says to God, "Gee, I'm sure glad I helped you." You really are flailing into the realm of fantasy in your attempts to justify not answering my question. It's avery simple question:

If I am drowning and a woman throws me a rope and I grab it and she drags me to a boat and to safety, how does my grabbing the rope, by which I cooperated with her, make her no longer my saviour? Please explain. Is she really no longer my saviour?

Really? I went through this in multiple posts explaining that to you. Last time: you were dead and unable to contribute anything
to your rescue to include being able to grab the rope. Remember the verses I posted that document our inability to assist - being that we're spiritually dead in sin and that God alone must be the one to give spiritual life to the spiritually dead? Remember that?

 

[PaulThomson]

That kind of effort leads one to Christ. It doesn't save anyone. It merely leads them to the One who can save them.
The rich young ruler is a great example. The law led him to Christ. His insistence on dealing with God on the basis of the law led him sadly away. Rather than learn the lesson Christ was teaching and see from Jesus' request that he actually hadn't kept the law, he remained in unbelief.

What's with the obsessive compartmentalisation of reality. Life is a confluence of processes. A man sinking down into murky depths who starts to hate where he is heading and begins to look up, away from the dark depths toward the light, and starts to push away from the deep, is beginning to be saved, even though he will not be saved until he reaches the surface. Seeking out the words of Christ, or taking heed to the words of Christ that are brought to us and considering them, does not completely save, but it is a step in the process of being saved. No one is claiming that a person can save themselves on their own without Christ doing the majority of the work. But it is foolish to claim that someone recognising that some things they did contributed to that process of salvation is somehow robbing God of glory for His role in that salvation.

 

[PaulThomson]

The premise put forth was that commandments are applicable to nonbelievers. I was explaining why it is so.

Where do you get, "The commandments are applicable to nonbelievers from -
PaulThomson said:
"And the reason we should be labouring for the word of God, is so that we may believe in the one whom God sent. We can't believe without first hearing and listening to what we should believe" ?

 

[PaulThomson]

Really? I went through this in multiple posts explaining that to you. Last time: you were dead and unable to contribute anything to your rescue to include being able to grab the rope. Remember the verses I posted that document our inability to assist - being that we're spiritually dead in sin and that God alone must be the one to give spiritual life to the spiritually dead? Remember that?

No. You have not answered the question regarding your claim that to credit oneself with any iota of contribution to one's salvation means one's saviour is no longer one's saviour. You have simply moved on to make a new claim, that "dead in trespasses and sins" means inert and unable to do anything at all.

Firstly you should answer the first question, re your first claim; and then we can move on to your second claim, which is quite a different issue from your first claim, even if you personally would like to inextricably link them.

 

[rogerg]

No. You have not answered the question regarding your claim that to credit oneself with any iota of contribution to one's salvation means one's saviour is no longer one's saviour. You have simply moved on to make a new claim, that "dead in trespasses and sins" means inert and unable to do anything at all.

Firstly you should answer the first question, re your first claim; and then we can move on to your second claim, which is quite a different issue from your first claim, even if you personally would like to inextricably link them.

I have, and I guess you just don't understand it. If God makes someone spiritually alive from being spiritual dead, then there is not one iota of credit due to person being made alive - they are just the recipient - they've done nothing for it. It's actually very simple. God alone should be the one to get the credit.