Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.

[Lamar]

yes but the questions i have asked you.

do you have any answer?

I personally have no way of knowing who is and is not in the Book of Life.

 

[hornetguy]

Yep Cornelius wasn’t a good example because he was baptized. The point is that while water baptism is important, if a person has a deathbed conversion, gets saved but dies on the way to the baptistery, or in some way isn’t able to get water baptized before death, they will still go to Heaven.

while I agree with you, we are still talking hypothetical situations. In real life, every day, "coming to Jesus" events, ALL the parts of the process need to be followed.
To minimize baptism to the point of "if you want to do it, that's good, but if you don't want to do it, that's ok, too" is missing the boat entirely.
Otherwise, you might as well be in the "faith only" crowd.... which I suspect you are. Scripture does not teach that, unless you cherry-pick individual scriptures to fit your pre-conceived idea.
There are too many scriptures that point to the necessity of baptism, along with the Biblical records of the apostles teaching it, along with hundreds of years of following that pattern to say that it is not necessary.....

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

while I agree with you, we are still talking hypothetical situations. In real life, every day, "coming to Jesus" events, ALL the parts of the process need to be followed.
To minimize baptism to the point of "if you want to do it, that's good, but if you don't want to do it, that's ok, too" is missing the boat entirely.
Otherwise, you might as well be in the "faith only" crowd.... which I suspect you are. Scripture does not teach that, unless you cherry-pick individual scriptures to fit your pre-conceived idea.
There are too many scriptures that point to the necessity of baptism, along with the Biblical records of the apostles teaching it, along with hundreds of years of following that pattern to say that it is not necessary.....

Where did anyone say baptism wasn't important?! What was said is it doesn't save you.

 

[hornetguy]

We agree on the point, water baptism doesn't save a person.

I agree with this, as well. Baptism by itself does not save you.... just as faith by itself doesn't save you... or believing by itself doesn't save you.... it takes all of those things.... and trying to decide the exact point of salvation is just arguing jots and tittles... follow the Biblical examples... you have to do it all.

 

[hornetguy]

Where did anyone say baptism wasn't important?!

Yes... you are very careful to not say that, specifically. What you DO is minimize the importance by saying "if you for whatever reason are not baptized, that's ok... believing is enough" This is false teaching by implication... and if you are honest, you KNOW that new believers will infer that from your lack of emphasis....

 

[Magenta]

OK, what does prove a person is saved?

is it something people can observe or is it something only God can?

1 Samuel 16:7b - God looks at the heart

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I agree with this, as well. Baptism by itself does not save you.... just as faith by itself doesn't save you... or believing by itself doesn't save you.... it takes all of those things.... and trying to decide the exact point of salvation is just arguing jots and tittles... follow the Biblical examples... you have to do it all.

Ok, the other poster doesn't wish to answer the question, I will ask you. If someone in the hospital is led to the Lord but pass away before they can be baptized, are they saved or going to hell?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Yes... you are very careful to not say that, specifically. What you DO is minimize the importance by saying "if you for whatever reason are not baptized, that's ok... believing is enough" This is false teaching by implication... and if you are honest, you KNOW that new believers will infer that from your lack of emphasis....

I grew up in a church that did not believe baptism saved you. No one took it less seriously and we had a service once a month and many teens were saved and added to our church. When the summer came on they had services more often. It was not treated as not important.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The spirit of tongues does not "prove" salvation.

In that household, and for that time, and to convince the Jewish believers that Gentiles were being added to the Church, it was God who felt it NECESSARY to give the Jewish believers direct evidence. That is exactly what the record shows, so read it very carefully: And they of the circumcision [Jewish believers] which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:45-47)

So it is all there in the Bible, but do you even read what is written and understand why it is written? Why don't you ABANDON your false doctrine, instead of trying to double down?

 

[JBTN]

I personally have no way of knowing who is and is not in the Book of Life.

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.4.1-3.KJV

 

[hornetguy]

AFTER they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. That was solid proof of their salvation. And the reason Peter "commanded" them to be baptized is because the Lord commanded all the apostles and their companions -- indeed the whole Church -- to baptize IMMEDIATELY after a person gets saved. And that is precisely what you see in the NT. Paul and Silas baptized the household of the Philippian jailer shortly after midnight. But rarely does any church today follow this NT pattern. Some churches even falsely teach that baptism if for church membership their their church.

Not the church I attend.
Cornelius' household was uniquely used to prove the Gentiles' worthiness of being part of the kingdom. That is why they received the Spirit before baptism.... normally, it happens at or after baptism, as Peter told the crowd at Pentecost. Although I don't think that is necessarily cut and dried... there are examples of those that did not receive the indwelling Spirit at baptism... those that were baptized with John's baptism, and only received it when the apostles laid hands on them. And I understand that to be a special event, as well.

Taking all scripture together, the old "Church of Christ" teaching of the 5 items of being saved are actually accurate... we have to hear the word, believe the word, repent of our sins, confess that we want Jesus in our lives, and be baptized.... all of that is required.
Where does the salvation actually happen? I don't know, but if a person follows that path, they will be saved....

Peter said "repent and turn away from your sins, and be baptized, and you will receive the indwelling Spirit as a gift" which is what Jesus promised us.... he would send a comforter to indwell us...

 

[hornetguy]

i should add, too, that it was at this time infant baptism began to be practiced. child mortality was high, and parents, wanting their children to enter the kingdom, would baptize them if they were sick and dying, even if they were not old enough to speak. what was being taught was that, independent of faith, water baptism removed sin - whether a person understood the gospel or not.

@Lamar do you believe this?

come on, Post..... you're better than that.... why all the completely unnecessary silly questions?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

so if a person hears false teaching and responds to lies by being baptized, are they saved?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Blade]

Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”

To say "Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus." is not true since no one knows they all speculate. Lol to think when Christ just shows up and he finds out Christ is alive and what just walked off? See we don't know. So your not right.

 

[Blade]

Nope, speaking in tongues does not prove you are saved.

And this is what you are implying.

In fact I believe it does. Well God through Christ said "If you, then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”. When I was around 15 in a bible study they asked if I wanted the holy Spirit. No clue what they were really asking but I said yes. Sat down they read only scriptures then prayed a very short prayer then stopped said "that's it you got it". Huh? Got what nothing happened. See these grand parents just believed if its written if God said it He will do it He will always keep His word. So no one said a word I got up the second I sat down tongues just came out. Now I was saved the say before what was different? Oh like night and day.. praise GOD GLORY GLORY GLORY TO JESUS CHRSIT (the only time I all cap).

See its a promise only for believers. Its what Paul asked those "have you received the holy Spirit since you believe." I won't play with doubt or speculation. As a hmm lets just say preacher all would know once said on TBN many years ago that oddly never gets remembered odd huh. He said "if you don't believe in speaking in tongues praise GOD you believe in Jesus that's what matters." I PRAISE GOD there was no Internet no cell phones back then so I never heard allot of doubt. See they only read what He said.. they didn't add anything to it. Yes I personally (get what I just said there) believe Luke 11:13 and speaking on tongues go hand in hand. As I said.. oh the day before then that day.. like oh.. like being blind then you can see. "But you will receive power and ability when the Holy Spirit comes upon you; and you will be My witnesses [to tell people about Me] both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and Samaria, and even to the ends of the earth.”

I take anything everything God gives. I received what He gave John 3:16-17 so I am guessing its the same GOD that was giving to those that asked (only for believers) Luke 11:13. Yet just with the 4 gospels He gave us so much more.. just that NAME! Faith in that name!

 

[posthuman]

I personally have no way of knowing who is and is not in the Book of Life.

nor i

so i think the best approach is caution, and faith in the faithfulness of God to those who believe Him

 

[posthuman]

nor i

so i think the best approach is caution, and faith in the faithfulness of God to those who believe Him

so 100% i am going to tell everyone who believes to be baptized, and 100% i am not going to condemn anyone who believes but isn't yet baptized

 

[posthuman]

come on, Post..... you're better than that.... why all the completely unnecessary silly questions?

i honestly wonder if this belief is still around

 

[posthuman]

i honestly wonder if this belief is still around

and sometimes the silly questions are just to illustrate that some of the obvious answers to them are equally silly - a dialogic device, that's all

 

[posthuman]

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism therefore proves nothing about salvation, but faith in the true gospel is greater.

unbelief certainly condemns. lack of baptism is uncertain - and no one knows a man's heart but God alone