There will be no Rapture!!!

[TheDivineWatermark]

I am saying Believers are not effected until after mid point. The Witnesses have power and the Jews have peace.

In this thread, I've already pointed out several things that (biblically) go against what you are saying here:

--"the 144,000" (including, "Of the tribe of Judah were sealed 12,000") are "sealed" (for protection) against the "harm" that will come on the earth starting AT TRUMPET #1 (8:7-10; 7:3), which commences WELL BEFORE the "5th Trumpet" (MID-point);


--"the beginning of birth PANGS" (which Paul says "the DOTL" ARRIVES at the INITIAL ONE OF THOSE, 1Th5:1-3) ARE the "SEALS"... and the SEALS are WITHIN the "in quickness [noun]" time-period WHICH IS "the 7-yr period"; This is CONFIRMED BY the "sequence issues" of the Olivet Discourse itself (which many disregard... or at least fail to notice); therefore, also...


--the "Seal 2 WARS" (when "peace" is "TAKEN FROM THE EARTH") INCLUDE Ezekiel 38-39 (parts), esp. Ezek38:21 ("sword"--Rev6:4), which Ezek passage specifically concerns Israel;


--Matthew 24:9 ("Then shall they deliver YOU up to be afflicted, and shall kill YOU: and YE shall be hated of all the nations for My name's sake") is ALSO within the FIRST HALF OF THE TRIB YRS (prior to vv.15-16's MID-point); where the "YE / YOU" of the Olivet Discourse is a CONSISTENT "ye/you" and a "proleptic 'ye/you'"... speaking of "all those in the FUTURE of the SAME CATEGORY" (i.e. THOSE to WHOM the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom WAS PROMISED)... the believing remnant OF ISRAEL (this passage is NOT referencing "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"); EVERYTHING in the text from 24:4 onward is talking about things FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (the Olivet Discourse NOWHERE is covering the Subject of "our Rapture," but things surrounding His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age);


--much more...

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Since we've all concluded that there will be no pre-trib rapture...

Please Subtract @cv5, @TheDivineWatermark, @John146, and myself from the
all , as we have Concluded "no Such Thing", Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth,
eh?:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

Amen.

Also helpful:

The Body's Bodily Resurrection

 

[Musicmaster]

One of the events in the middle of the tribulation:

Rev 12:7-17
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This all is AFTER the seventh trumpet, with other things happening before the first bowl is poured out. This is the point spoken of by Yahshuah for Israel to flee into the mountains. Satan will be very, very ticked at having been kicked out of Heaven confined to the earth, and unable to accuse the brethren day and night, as it is written. This is when he is allowed to empower his beast to chase the remanant into the mountains, and Yah will protect and care for them until the very end of the 1260 days of the second half of the 70th Heptad.

Placing the halfway point earlier than this, and it makes no sense to try and fit in anywhere else.

Every part of the tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb, staring with the first seal, as is stated by those on this earth:

Revelation 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The seals alone brought the people of the earth, both great and small, to this realization.

MM

 

[cv5]

One of the events in the middle of the tribulation:

Rev 12:7-17
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This all is AFTER the seventh trumpet, with other things happening before the first bowl is poured out. This is the point spoken of by Yahshuah for Israel to flee into the mountains. Satan will be very, very ticked at having been kicked out of Heaven confined to the earth, and unable to accuse the brethren day and night, as it is written. This is when he is allowed to empower his beast to chase the remanant into the mountains, and Yah will protect and care for them until the very end of the 1260 days of the second half of the 70th Heptad.

Placing the halfway point earlier than this, and it makes no sense to try and fit in anywhere else.

Every part of the tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb, staring with the first seal, as is stated by those on this earth:

Revelation 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The seals alone brought the people of the earth, both great and small, to this realization.

MM

You may find this useful:

In fact the AC goes to war with three (of the 10) "resistance" kings.
There is basically ongoing world war everywhere at this point really.

Dan 7:20
And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

It is only AFTER the war in heaven, Satan ejected to the earth, and Satan INDWELLING the AC that the whole world aligns behind his supposedly unbeatable power. The world sees this super-AC (supercharged by Satan) as an unkillable, unbeatable warrior....like Goliath.

Goliath is a type of the AC....one of the primary types in all the Bible.

Rev 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Rev 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Furthermore, the persecution of BOTH Israel and tribulation "resistance" Saints only begins in earnest......AFTER the AC becomes super-powered by the indwelling of Satan.

 

[cv5]

One of the events in the middle of the tribulation:

Rev 12:7-17
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This all is AFTER the seventh trumpet, with other things happening before the first bowl is poured out. This is the point spoken of by Yahshuah for Israel to flee into the mountains. Satan will be very, very ticked at having been kicked out of Heaven confined to the earth, and unable to accuse the brethren day and night, as it is written. This is when he is allowed to empower his beast to chase the remanant into the mountains, and Yah will protect and care for them until the very end of the 1260 days of the second half of the 70th Heptad.

Placing the halfway point earlier than this, and it makes no sense to try and fit in anywhere else.

Every part of the tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb, staring with the first seal, as is stated by those on this earth:

Revelation 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The seals alone brought the people of the earth, both great and small, to this realization.

MM

Good job buddy.

Here are a few more comments:

https://christianchat.com/threads/t...bulation-rapture-doctrine.208251/post-5308736

All OT and NT passages need to be taken into account to get the big picture.
These passages are insufficient......but enough to start with.

The beast is first killed then resurrected when indwelt by Satan. Happens mid-trib.....the start of Jacobs trouble!

1) AC killed by deadly head wound during the wars of the 10 kings
2) war in heaven - Satan cast down to earth
3) Satan enters the AC and he comes back to life, the world is astonished at this "unkillable" AC super-being
4) remaining earthly kings/kingdoms stop their wars and align with this supposedly all-powerful unkillable beast (the greater Goliath) and give him their power
5) THEN the mark of the beast is imposed
6) THEN the persecution of the saints and Israel begins in earnest
7) THEN mercies and longsuffering end and God unleashes full fury against those who have WILLINGLY taken the mark of the beast and made themselves IRREDEMABLE by doing so.

6 & 7 happen contemporaneously.

Rev 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Rev 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and [THEN] all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:10
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Rev 13:17
and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Rev 14:9
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10
“he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

 

[Genez]

Since we've all concluded that there will be no pre-trib rapture, because the Lord is able to keep His own safe even within fire and the worst of circumstances, can we move on now?

And we are absolutely correct: it's silly to suggest that the Lord will withdraw the troops just prior to victory. Instead He will give all who are His everything needed for an abundant life. You know, like setting a table in the midst of our enemies.

I would imagine you probably never had the following enter your mind before.

A nation does what before going to war? ​

​

It recalls its ambassadors. ​

Hence? The RAPTURE!

The Tribulation will be an outright (totally unrestrained) last ditch attempt by Satan to prove himself by attempting to win the spiritual warfare between the Satan and the Lord...
To be fair, God will remove all restraint so Satan will have no excuse for losing when he does lose.

All restraint upon men and angels now on earth? Are being retrained by the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit who at present protects the church will be removed, and then all hell will break loose!

For the mystery of lawlessness [rebellion against divine authority and the ​

coming reign of lawlessness] is already at work; [but it is restrained] only ​

until he who now restrains it is taken out of the way. 2 Thessalonians 2:7​

How is the Holy Spirit who now restrains taken out of the way?

The Holy Spirit is removed from the earth when all Church age believers are gone - taken away!
For at present? Holy Spirit indwells all church age believers!

Silly God. Making silly people believe in such a thing by making the Word of God appear to be saying exactly what it does!

See you in the Rapture.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

One of the events in the middle of the tribulation:

Rev 12:7-17
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This all is AFTER the seventh trumpet, with other things happening before the first bowl is poured out. This is the point spoken of by Yahshuah for Israel to flee into the mountains. Satan will be very, very ticked at having been kicked out of Heaven confined to the earth, and unable to accuse the brethren day and night, as it is written. This is when he is allowed to empower his beast to chase the remanant into the mountains, and Yah will protect and care for them until the very end of the 1260 days of the second half of the 70th Heptad.

Placing the halfway point earlier than this, and it makes no sense to try and fit in anywhere else.

Every part of the tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb, staring with the first seal, as is stated by those on this earth:

Revelation 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The seals alone brought the people of the earth, both great and small, to this realization.

MM

Most of Revelation 12 has already happened.
This should be common knowledge for someone claiming to know the Word of God.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations!

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy traffic they filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned; therefore have I cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God

Luke 10:18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

In this thread, I've already pointed out several things that (biblically) go against what you are saying here:

--"the 144,000" (including, "Of the tribe of Judah were sealed 12,000") are "sealed" (for protection) against the "harm" that will come on the earth starting AT TRUMPET #1 (8:7-10; 7:3), which commences WELL BEFORE the "5th Trumpet" (MID-point);


--"the beginning of birth PANGS" (which Paul says "the DOTL" ARRIVES at the INITIAL ONE OF THOSE, 1Th5:1-3) ARE the "SEALS"... and the SEALS are WITHIN the "in quickness [noun]" time-period WHICH IS "the 7-yr period"; This is CONFIRMED BY the "sequence issues" of the Olivet Discourse itself (which many disregard... or at least fail to notice); therefore, also...


--the "Seal 2 WARS" (when "peace" is "TAKEN FROM THE EARTH") INCLUDE Ezekiel 38-39 (parts), esp. Ezek38:21 ("sword"--Rev6:4), which Ezek passage specifically concerns Israel;


--Matthew 24:9 ("Then shall they deliver YOU up to be afflicted, and shall kill YOU: and YE shall be hated of all the nations for My name's sake") is ALSO within the FIRST HALF OF THE TRIB YRS (prior to vv.15-16's MID-point); where the "YE / YOU" of the Olivet Discourse is a CONSISTENT "ye/you" and a "proleptic 'ye/you'"... speaking of "all those in the FUTURE of the SAME CATEGORY" (i.e. THOSE to WHOM the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom WAS PROMISED)... the believing remnant OF ISRAEL (this passage is NOT referencing "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"); EVERYTHING in the text from 24:4 onward is talking about things FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (the Olivet Discourse NOWHERE is covering the Subject of "our Rapture," but things surrounding His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age);


--much more...

And still Jesus showed John the 2 Olive Trees/Lampstands would have this kind of power and be untouchable until mid-point. So whatever you think you've proven is quite far fetched from the reality and clearly does not line up with 6 They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.

Even verse 5 shows they can be hurt but not killed but those that hurt them this is what happens to them [DEATH] 5 And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed.

 

[Aaron56]

I would imagine you probably never had the following enter your mind before.

A nation does what before going to war? ​

​

It recalls its ambassadors. ​

Hence? The RAPTURE!

The Tribulation will be an outright (totally unrestrained) last ditch attempt by Satan to prove himself by attempting to win the spiritual warfare between the Satan and the Lord...
To be fair, God will remove all restraint so Satan will have no excuse for losing when he does lose.

All restraint upon men and angels now on earth? Are being retrained by the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit who at present protects the church will be removed, and then all hell will break loose!

For the mystery of lawlessness [rebellion against divine authority and the ​

coming reign of lawlessness] is already at work; [but it is restrained] only ​

until he who now restrains it is taken out of the way. 2 Thessalonians 2:7​

How is the Holy Spirit who now restrains taken out of the way?

The Holy Spirit is removed from the earth when all Church age believers are gone - taken away!
For at present? Holy Spirit indwells all church age believers!

Silly God. Making silly people believe in such a thing by making the Word of God appear to be saying exactly what it does!

See you in the Rapture.

Oh, you think we‘re not currently at war. Interesting.

 

[cv5]

To be fair, God will remove all restraint so Satan will have no excuse for losing when he does lose.

Good point. Satan is ALWAYS accusing God of being unfair. Wrongly of course.

Job 1:10
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

No, God did not. As was made clear in the full account that followed.
And.....Job, Satan, and God all demonstrate free will throughout. Free will being THE intrinsic aspect of Gods gift of true life.

 

[cv5]

Most of Revelation 12 has already happened.
This should be common knowledge for someone claiming to know the Word of God.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations!

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy traffic they filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned; therefore have I cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God

Luke 10:18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Satan has access. To what degree we do not know. But he does. Until the mid-trib war in heaven.

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I have always laughed at the multitude of ignorance proclaiming the meaning of this verse in 1 Thessalonians chapter 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice how the verse ends: but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ
So Wrath here is the opposite of salvation which is Eternally Damned.

The verse literally reads we're not going to HELL because we have Salvation.

And look just how deceitful Pre-Tribbers are making this verse to be about Tribulation when it is clearly speaking about Eternal Damnation.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Satan has access. To what degree we do not know. But he does. Until the mid-trib war in heaven.

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

You should study the 8 verses about the Councils of God and ALL Angels [Fallen included] are allowed.

One Council God sent a Lying spirit to deceive a king to his death.

Job 1 is a Council Meeting.

Satan no longer is able to live there.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You should study the 8 verses about the Councils of God and ALL Angels [Fallen included] are allowed.

One Council God sent a Lying spirit to deceive a king to his death.

Job 1 is a Council Meeting.

Satan no longer is able to live there.

One Council Meeting recorded:

I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on his left.
And the LORD said: Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead.
And there came forth the spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said: I will entice him.
And he said: I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.'

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I have always laughed at the multitude of ignorance proclaiming the meaning of this verse in 1 Thessalonians chapter 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice how the verse ends: but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ
So Wrath here is the opposite of salvation which is Eternally Damned.

The verse literally reads we're not going to HELL because we have Salvation.

And look just how deceitful Pre-Tribbers are making this verse to be about Tribulation when it is clearly speaking about Eternal Damnation.

Paul's Thessalonians epistles are referring to an "eschatological salvation" ("the One delivering us out-of THE WRATH COMING"--that is, COMING on the earth, to unfold upon it, OVER SOME TIME [i.e the '7 yrs']--NOT referring here to "hell"!!);

i.e. [salvation/deliverance] via "our Rapture," which he does not merely speak about IN ONE VERSE ONLY (1Th4:17 ALONE), as many suppose, but refers to it something like 8-10 times in these two epistles (using VARIOUS terms and phrases)!




That is far from us being "deceitful," as you suggest.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Job 1 is a Council Meeting.

Satan no longer is able to live there.

I am among those who believe that "Job 1 [and 2]" was not something located up in heaven, but took place "on the earth"

(there is zero evidence in the text of Job 1 [and 2] to suggest it was up in heaven... ; and more that it took place on the earth, instead)







[I also agree with those saying that Rev12 (when Satan will be "cast down unto the earth"--and limited to that sphere) takes place in the middle of the FUTURE Trib yrs... ("having great wrath because he knoweth he hath but A SHORT TIME" [<--words that never mean a lengthy period])]

 

[cv5]

You should study the 8 verses about the Councils of God and ALL Angels [Fallen included] are allowed.

One Council God sent a Lying spirit to deceive a king to his death.

Job 1 is a Council Meeting.

Satan no longer is able to live there.

You need to conjure up an alternative to what the Bible clearly indicates as a seven (360 days * 7) year time of tribulation.
And a 1260 day time of Jacobs trouble.

Don't bother trying.....it is impossible.

BTW, the Jewish wedding ritual stipulates a 7 day (7 year for the Church after the rapture) honeymoon at the Fathers house.
After that, the ALREADY WED Groom and Bride leave the bridal chamber at the Father's house are the guests of honor at......the WEDDING FEAST aka WEDDING SUPPER.

The linkage is unmistakable and obviously intentional. And Jesus frames His Olivet Discourse and all of Paul's inspirited writings (as well as the prophets) around this wedding ritual procedure and timetable.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Paul's Thessalonians epistles are referring to an "eschatological salvation" ("the One delivering us out-of THE WRATH COMING"--that is, COMING on the earth, to unfold upon it, OVER SOME TIME [i.e the '7 yrs']--NOT referring here to "hell"!!);

i.e. [salvation/deliverance] via "our Rapture," which he does not merely speak about IN ONE VERSE ONLY (1Th4:17 ALONE), as many suppose, but refers to it something like 8-10 times in these two epistles (using VARIOUS terms and phrases)!




That is far from us being "deceitful," as you suggest.

What happens if you do not have salvation and end up in Hell?
God's Wrath for Eternity.
You don't even present logic with your viewpoints.

 

[Genez]

Oh, you think we‘re not currently at war. Interesting.

Currently, yes. But, with great restraint...

For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—​

and never to be equaled again.​

​

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those ​

days will be shortened."​

​

Matthew 24:21-22​

Many will be saved during the Tribulation ....
For the world will be evangelized by 144,000 Jews.

The church will be in heaven with the Lord being prepared like a bride for a wedding.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I am among those who believe that "Job 1 [and 2]" was not something located up in heaven, but took place "on the earth"

(there is zero evidence in the text of Job 1 [and 2] to suggest it was up in heaven... ; and more that it took place on the earth, instead)







[I also agree with those saying that Rev12 (when Satan will be "cast down unto the earth"--and limited to that sphere) takes place in the middle of the FUTURE Trib yrs... ("having great wrath because he knoweth he hath but A SHORT TIME" [<--words that never mean a lengthy period])]

6 Now it fell upon a day, that the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Where is God's Throne at?