Where do pastors stand on 'mild drinks' like beer?

[KegOfCorona]

I think everyone agrees that drinking liqour or even wine can be considered debauchery. The scriptures clearly laid out, do not be intoxicated with strong drink (liqour). However, what about beer? Doesn't it serve a purpose? It may not be for the church leaders. But a simple lay man from the congregation shall be permitted to drink the occasional beer or wine, right?
Or no? I know in the LDS Church and Islam, it is strictly forbidden. I don't care if God chastises me for drinking, I'm not bothered by being single at this point in my life. I've matured beyond my years, and know my self worth. Jesus demands all my heart, mind, and spirit, right? So if I drink beer, without stumbling, isn't it honoring Jesus, who turned water into wine?

 

[Tall_Timbers]

I think everyone agrees that drinking liqour or even wine can be considered debauchery.

I disagree with the above statement. Merely drinking liquor or wine in my opinion is not debauchery. Drinking it to excess is a problem when it reaches a level of debauchery (extreme indulgence).

I don't care if God chastises me for drinking

It might do one well to care when God chastises you for something.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I think everyone agrees that drinking liqour or even wine can be considered debauchery. The scriptures clearly laid out, do not be intoxicated with strong drink (liqour). However, what about beer? Doesn't it serve a purpose? It may not be for the church leaders. But a simple lay man from the congregation shall be permitted to drink the occasional beer or wine, right?
Or no? I know in the LDS Church and Islam, it is strictly forbidden. I don't care if God chastises me for drinking, I'm not bothered by being single at this point in my life. I've matured beyond my years, and know my self worth. Jesus demands all my heart, mind, and spirit, right? So if I drink beer, without stumbling, isn't it honoring Jesus, who turned water into wine?

There's an ongoing debate as to whether or not the sinless Savior, who has commands against drunkenness would offer more kegs to those who have already "well drunk." That's assuming that those who endorse the theory of Jesus further contributing to already drunk people is offering much more. I don't but I noticed that there's been some celebrity Calvinists and Catholics who endorse that view. That's the one thing some have in common.

My view is...
Drunkenness is a sin.
Jesus is without sin.
God does not tempt man to sin.
Jesus is God.

I read Psalm 145 this morning. This verse applies here.

17The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

I think everyone agrees that drinking liqour or even wine can be considered debauchery. The scriptures clearly laid out, do not be intoxicated with strong drink (liqour). However, what about beer? Doesn't it serve a purpose? It may not be for the church leaders. But a simple lay man from the congregation shall be permitted to drink the occasional beer or wine, right?
Or no? I know in the LDS Church and Islam, it is strictly forbidden. I don't care if God chastises me for drinking, I'm not bothered by being single at this point in my life. I've matured beyond my years, and know my self worth. Jesus demands all my heart, mind, and spirit, right? So if I drink beer, without stumbling, isn't it honoring Jesus, who turned water into wine?

No, not everyone agrees with your first line. In fact many disagree with it. Never good to state a belief by starting with "I think we can all agree". Rarely is that true.

"Drinking liquor or even wine can be considered debauchery."
"Shall be permitted to drink the occasional beer or wine, right"
Contradiction. How can be it considered debauchery to drink wine and also permitted? Is God letting people get away with what you claim is a sin?

"Don't care if God chastises me"
"I'm not bothered by being single"
No connection between the two. Not being married isn't a punishment. Marriage is not a promise that gets taken away as a punishment. It's something we choose or not choose. Sometimes it just doesn't work out for people.

Personally I don't view having a drink to be a sin. Though I don't drink myself.

 

[Cold]

I always went by the thought that it was getting drunk or tipsy that was where alcohol consumption became bad. I only drink once or twice a year at most by getting a beer at a restaurant with a meal. The downside to that though is that in my mind my tolerance is as high as it was when I was a heavy drinker. Beer never got me drunk or tipsy back then and I needed a bottle and a have of liquor to feel anything. Now if I get 2 beers before my meal comes out I feel it. I haven't had anything to drink this year so far, though if I end up ordering a drink later on I'll probably just stick to one.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I think everyone agrees that drinking liqour or even wine can be considered debauchery.

Hello KegOfCorona, I believe that you might from some stiff opposition (pun intended) from most (all?) Roman Catholic priests about that, as well from the monks and nuns of the Catholic Church who are still involved in making wine (and dare I say even the vast majority of Catholic congregants around the world ).

Then there are the Jews, whose weekly Shabbat blessings include the following words: "Blessed are you, Lord our God, Ruler of the Universe, who creates the fruit of the vine."

Most Protestant denominations are 'onboard' concerning moderate imbibing (well, except during the Prohibition), especially our Lutheran friends if a beer wagon is involved (I believe that they are still the leaders of the Protestant pack concerning approval for moderated imbibing).

Of course, there are limitations, Biblical ones, and this is how one conservative denomination (of Lutherans/LCMS) handles this matter officially:

​

QUESTION: What is the LCMS’ stance on the consumption of alcohol? ​

​

ANSWER:The Bible nowhere condemns the proper and responsible use (consumption) of alcoholic beverages, and neither does The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod. Scripture does warn strongly and repeatedly against the abuse, misuse or excessive use of alcoholic beverages, and the LCMS has also repeatedly warned against such dangers. ~LCMS FAQ (excerpt)​

​

The scriptures clearly laid out, do not be intoxicated with strong drink (liqour).

If memory serves, "strong drink" (in the Bronze and Iron Ages) referred to beer and wine too. It was any alcoholic beverage that was not diluted a number of times with water (alcohol served an important purpose back then by killing bacteria and making water safer to drink .. IOW, it wasn't used to simply make men's/women's hearts "merry" ).

I don't care if God chastises me for drinking.....

Really! Why not (do you really love beer THAT much?)

~Deuteronomy (David)

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I think everyone agrees that drinking liqour or even wine can be considered debauchery. The scriptures clearly laid out, do not be intoxicated with strong drink (liqour). However, what about beer? Doesn't it serve a purpose? It may not be for the church leaders. But a simple lay man from the congregation shall be permitted to drink the occasional beer or wine, right?
Or no? I know in the LDS Church and Islam, it is strictly forbidden. I don't care if God chastises me for drinking, I'm not bothered by being single at this point in my life. I've matured beyond my years, and know my self worth. Jesus demands all my heart, mind, and spirit, right? So if I drink beer, without stumbling, isn't it honoring Jesus, who turned water into wine?

"Wherefore, if meat causeth my brother to stumble, I will eat no flesh for evermore, that I cause not my brother to stumble". My uncle was a lifelong alcoholic. We were raised not to drink and not to cause others to stumble. My uncle never saw any of us touch alcohol. From my POV I don't see the reason why people drink other than to get "buzzed".

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I disagree with the above statement. Merely drinking liquor or wine in my opinion is not debauchery. Drinking it to excess is a problem when it reaches a level of debauchery (extreme indulgence).



It might do one well to care when God chastises you for something.

Well, here's the issue, a person doesn't know they are an alcoholic until they take the first drink. So why take the risk?

 

[Tall_Timbers]

Well, here's the issue, a person doesn't know they are an alcoholic until they take the first drink. So why take the risk?

I reckon that's a personal choice. If the issue ran in my family I might be hesitant to try alcohol. Alcoholism has certainly caused a of pain for a lot of people.

 

[Karlon]

I think everyone agrees that drinking liqour or even wine can be considered debauchery. The scriptures clearly laid out, do not be intoxicated with strong drink (liqour). However, what about beer? Doesn't it serve a purpose? It may not be for the church leaders. But a simple lay man from the congregation shall be permitted to drink the occasional beer or wine, right?
Or no? I know in the LDS Church and Islam, it is strictly forbidden. I don't care if God chastises me for drinking, I'm not bothered by being single at this point in my life. I've matured beyond my years, and know my self worth. Jesus demands all my heart, mind, and spirit, right? So if I drink beer, without stumbling, isn't it honoring Jesus, who turned water into wine?

it can be "considered" debauchery but always isn't. a person can drink alcohol & not be intoxicated. don't be fooled anyone, there's a lot more pastors, church board members & leaders who consume alcohol than you may think. i wouldn't call it "honoring" Jesus by drinking alcohol. WHOEVER IS A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN KNOWS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE MAIN KEY HERE, THEN OUR SPIRITS. WHEN WE HEAR FROM THE H.S., WE BETTER LISTEN & STOP DRINKING. my father, brothers & friends we had all had the ability to drink large amounts of alcohol & still be postured properly in attitude, personality, presentation & dignity. WE SIMPLY DIDN'T GET DRUNK! i mean 30 to 40 drinks in 3 to 4 hours, all of us. this activity stopped around 20 years ago & i would never do it again. it takes more strength to stop what you like doing that is sin but there's always a way.

 

[TolworthJohn]

I drink beer, without stumbling, isn't it honoring Jesus, who turned water into wine?

Jesus isn't honoured by what we do or don't do. He is honoured by the intent behind what we do or don't do.
There is nothing wrong with socialising with friends over a beer or two. Do those friends know you are Christian, would they attend church or a men's event at church if you asked them?

Would they still be your friends if you didn't drink?

Where and how do you draw the line for when laddish behaviour becomes unsuitable?

 

[Edify]

[QUOTE="KegOfCorona, post: 5313703, member: 330618"]I don't care if God chastises me for drinking, I'm not bothered by being single at this point in my life. I've matured beyond my years, and know my self worth. Jesus demands all my heart, mind, and spirit, right? So if I drink beer, without stumbling, isn't it honoring Jesus, who turned water into wine?[/QUOTE]
This in red states you're not spiritually mature enough(if at all) to consider the truth.
This in blue says you're irresponsible to be bothered by the truth.
This in green states you know yourself that you're self assured & that speaks of pride & arrogance.
We can't possibly believe what's written in black because you have 3 strikes already.
You're out. Please leave home plate.
BTW, are you proud of your CC name?

 

[KegOfCorona]

I believe this topic of discussion has gotten off course, I also believe we are in need of the Sword of the Spirit, the Word of God, which splits ligament from sinew...


Ephesians 5:17-19

New International Version

17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,

 

[KegOfCorona]

Leviticus 10:9
“Do not drink wine or strong drink, neither you nor your sons with you, when you come into the tent of meeting, so that you do not die—it is a permanent statute throughout your generations—

 

[Karlon]

Leviticus 10:9
“Do not drink wine or strong drink, neither you nor your sons with you, when you come into the tent of meeting, so that you do not die—it is a permanent statute throughout your generations—

Ephesians 5:18 says: "do not drink wine WHERE IN IS EXCESS......."

 

[KegOfCorona]

so, if i have 2 or 3 beers, I'm good to go? that's how i start every day off... it's the breakfast of champions.

 

[Eli1]

so, if i have 2 or 3 beers, I'm good to go? that's how i start every day off... it's the breakfast of champions.

Terrific username by the way.

 

[KegOfCorona]

BTW, are you proud of your CC name?

Yes, I am. I find I am too creative to be tied down by Christmas rules, as Costa Mesa's Calvary Chapel says, "Lighten up and live!"

 

[KegOfCorona]

I disagree with the above statement. Merely drinking liquor or wine in my opinion is not debauchery. Drinking it to excess is a problem when it reaches a level of debauchery (extreme indulgence).



It might do one well to care when God chastises you for something.

I've been chastised since before I started drinking, so it's nothing new to me. I have schizoaffective disorder (combination of schizophrenia and bipolar) so that seems to be an easy excuse to why I'm still single after 42 years...
I'm more likely to believe it was our Father in Heaven that chastised me, according to Islam, for the drinking of alcohol...

 

[TolworthJohn]

Leviticus 10:9
“Do not drink wine or strong drink, neither you nor your sons with you, when you come into the tent of meeting, so that you do not die—it is a permanent statute throughout your generations—

Quoting scripture out of context is not honouring God or explaining the meaning in scripture.

This verse is directed at Aron and his sons about how they were to conduct the worship of God.
It would apply to us in regard to us leading worship or attending worship, it says nothing about daily life.