Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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Luke says Judas was selected from among those who were already our Lord's disciples. So, Judas had already drawn near, i.e. come, to Jesus
To come means the same thing in the rest of chapter 6 and in the rest of John and everywhere in the Bible. The chapter, book and Bible are the context. For eisegetical reasons people seem to want to give the word a special esoteric meaning here.
I am linking "64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him," to vv. 70, 71
"Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."
God has granted/given "all things" to the Son, John 13:3 which must include "all men". Of the "all men" given to Jesus by the Father, Jesus gives aeonous life to those who believe in Him.
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work/effort/ergon of God/that God requires so that (hina) you might believe on him whom he has sent.
God wanted everyone, including Judas, to make an effort to come and see and hear Jesus with the intention that Judas would believe on Him with an abiding faith. However, Judas' response to seeing and hearing Jesus was more selfish. So God's found another use for Judas.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
To come means the same thing in the rest of chapter 6 and in the rest of John and everywhere in the Bible. The chapter, book and Bible are the context. For eisegetical reasons people seem to want to give the word a special esoteric meaning here.
I am linking "64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him," to vv. 70, 71
"Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."
- God does not draw people to Jesus only by teaching. In chapter 6 He drew people by feeding them through Jesus. But it is clear that many were not interested in being taught by the Father through Jesus.
God has granted/given "all things" to the Son, John 13:3 which must include "all men". Of the "all men" given to Jesus by the Father, Jesus gives aeonous life to those who believe in Him.
- Yes. They had come to him in the normal sense of the word "come".
- How does Jesus tie their unbelief to the Father not having granted them to come to Jesus? I can't see that in John 6. In this chapter crowds came to Jesus drawn by what the Father was giving Jesus to do and say, and most of them, though drawn by the Father, and though coming to Jesus, did not believe in Him, even though the purpose of drawing them was so that they might believe.
- John 6:29 ¶Jesus answered and said unto them, This (coming to me) is the work/effort/ergon that God requires, so that (hina) you might believe on him whom he hath sent.
- No. In this context "coming" to observe and listen to Jesus is evidence that the Father has drawn.
- Jesus says we must digest his words (bread/eat my flesh) and believe them and Him (drink my blood) to have life, receive the Holy Spirit.
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work/effort/ergon of God/that God requires so that (hina) you might believe on him whom he has sent.
God wanted everyone, including Judas, to make an effort to come and see and hear Jesus with the intention that Judas would believe on Him with an abiding faith. However, Judas' response to seeing and hearing Jesus was more selfish. So God's found another use for Judas.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
If the receipt of the redemption has terms attached before it can be received, not fulfilling the terms justly keeps one from gaining the benefits of the redemption already fully paid. Are you saying that God is not entitled to set terms for the receipt of His gifts offered out of His grace? Are you asying the God is not allowed to be more generous with what is His than you would be ?
People go to hell for not believing in and submitting to the Son, not as a punishment fir their sins.
People go to hell for not believing in and submitting to the Son, not as a punishment fir their sins.
God can and does always what He sovereignly pleases. But,in doing so, He always acts in accordance to His character. So yes, God is able to be as generous to any and all as He chooses, and He can also require that stipulated terms be met to enjoy the blessing whatever is in view. So God could do as you have proposed. The question is...can He do so and claim still to be just?
I'll assume you believe God to be just.
The scenario you suggest is not the actual scenario. In your example, the debt is not actually paid. What is necessary to secure and pay the debt has been accumulated, but not appropriated. This doesn't comport to the truth concerning salvation. The good news that the gospel proclaims that Christ has not only done all that is necessary to secure salvation, but that God has already not only accepted his actions on our behalf, but that our debt is already wiped away. We simply aren't aware of it.
I see 2 things in your argument that are flawed, in my opinion:
1. You diminish grace in salvation by adding the work of men. Rather than an individual merely needing to believe the truth concerning what Christ has done, one must also have to appropriate or receive somehow this for themselves, and
2. Your understanding of salvation renders God unjust. Under your view, God has accepted Jesus payment for an individual's debt, and requires some to still pay it a second time. It's not that I believe God could not do this, but that He cannot do so and remain just.
Your final statement is the logical conclusion of believing as you do, but it is not biblical. Jesus came to save His people from their sin, not their unbelief. Unbelief is merely one of a litany of sins we are saved from.
I'll assume you believe God to be just.
The scenario you suggest is not the actual scenario. In your example, the debt is not actually paid. What is necessary to secure and pay the debt has been accumulated, but not appropriated. This doesn't comport to the truth concerning salvation. The good news that the gospel proclaims that Christ has not only done all that is necessary to secure salvation, but that God has already not only accepted his actions on our behalf, but that our debt is already wiped away. We simply aren't aware of it.
I see 2 things in your argument that are flawed, in my opinion:
1. You diminish grace in salvation by adding the work of men. Rather than an individual merely needing to believe the truth concerning what Christ has done, one must also have to appropriate or receive somehow this for themselves, and
2. Your understanding of salvation renders God unjust. Under your view, God has accepted Jesus payment for an individual's debt, and requires some to still pay it a second time. It's not that I believe God could not do this, but that He cannot do so and remain just.
Your final statement is the logical conclusion of believing as you do, but it is not biblical. Jesus came to save His people from their sin, not their unbelief. Unbelief is merely one of a litany of sins we are saved from.
We should start providing verse references for all of our statements. I'll let you provide verses that say what you're saying.
Same comment. Did you consider every verse that uses the word or phrase? Global statements like this should be backed up. Maybe it's esoteric in the sense that it is understood by those who are interested, but really it's just context in GJohn. Here are some observations looking only at an English translation at this point. My search phrase is "com* to me":
NKJ Jn. 5:40 "But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
NKJ Jn. 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
I'll go to a separate post to proceed.
Same comment. Did you consider every verse that uses the word or phrase? Global statements like this should be backed up. Maybe it's esoteric in the sense that it is understood by those who are interested, but really it's just context in GJohn. Here are some observations looking only at an English translation at this point. My search phrase is "com* to me":
NKJ Jn. 5:40 "But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
- John sets the context for Jesus' use of the phrase = come to Me for a purpose, which is to have eternal life.
- I'm going to assume you agree that belief in Jesus is needed for eternal life.
- Come to Jesus > Eternal Life
- I've already stated how I see this interrelation of coming to Jesus and believing in Jesus.
- Do these 2 concepts not go together - to never hunger and never thirst - to come to Jesus and/even believe in Jesus for eternal life?
- Come to Jesus / Believe in Jesus > Never hunger never thirst
NKJ Jn. 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
- To come to Jesus in the sense in which Jesus is speaking - the Father must give the man to Jesus
- All men the Father gives to Jesus > will come to Jesus > Jesus will not them out
- 6:38 Jesus came down to do the Father's will
- 6:39 The Father's will for all men He gives to Jesus / who come to Jesus = Jesus not lose from them (this looks to speak of an individual from the group) but raise him (no one from the group so all the group) up in the last day
- 6:40 Explanation/Elaboration: This is Jesus' Father's will = That all the men who see (come to the understanding of something) the Son and believe into Him have eternal life and/namely Jesus will raise him (the group) in the last day.
- 6:39 The Father's will for all men He gives to Jesus / who come to Jesus = Jesus not lose from them (this looks to speak of an individual from the group) but raise him (no one from the group so all the group) up in the last day
- The Father gives men to Jesus > all these men come to Jesus / come to an understanding of Jesus and believe into Jesus > Jesus will not cast out any of them > Jesus will raise them in the last day / they will have eternal life
- The Father must draw a man to Jesus in order for a man to come to Jesus > Jesus will raise such man in the last day
- Jesus uses this verse from Isaiah to describe the Father's drawing of men to Jesus
- They shall all be learned men of God
- Conclusion = Every man who heard and learned from the Father > comes to Jesus
- Men come to Jesus > Eternal Life:
- The men who come to Jesus:
- They are God's learned men
- The men who come to Jesus:
- Men come to Jesus > Eternal Life:
- Conclusion = Every man who heard and learned from the Father > comes to Jesus
- They shall all be learned men of God
- Only men the Father gives to Jesus can come to Jesus
- Men come to Jesus > Eternal Life:
- The men who come to Jesus:
- The Father must draw them
- Jesus will raise them in the last day
- The Father gives them to Jesus
- Jesus will not cast them out
- The Father's will:
- For men He gives to Jesus / men who come to Jesus is:
- to come to an understanding of His Son
- To believe into His Son
- To have eternal life
- That Jesus not lose these men
- That Jesus raise these men in the last day
- For men He gives to Jesus / men who come to Jesus is:
- Shall eat the Bread of Life, shall never hunger never thirst
- Shall have eternal life
- No man can come to Jesus if the Father does not give him to Jesus
- The men who come to Jesus:
- This is language of command
- As I understand this, in the context of the feast and what men would be seeking from God, this is Jesus proclaiming deity.
- If you thirst, then come to Me and drink
- Never hunger never thirst
- Eternal Life
- Faith in Jesus Christ
I'll go to a separate post to proceed.
An important issue to take into account with this chapter, is that translators seem to have translated the greek "hina" meaning "so that, in order that" as a simple "that" (Greek hoti: that, because) in several places. This gives the impression that hina introduces a relative clause, rather than a purpose clause. This is very misleading regarding the sense of the Greek text. When the Greek says, "This is the will of God, so that..." we need to look either before or after the purpose clause for what the will of God referred to is.
I already gave you the text references for Luke 6:13 a and b in the previous post, which is why I referred to it as the Luke 6 text.
"And when it was day, he called to him his disciples, and of them He chose twelve, whom He also named apostles."
Judas was already a disciple, so Judas must have already come to Jesus to hear and see what the Father was giving Jesus to do and say, The Father drew Judas even closer by making him an apostle.
What does your > mean? Are you assuming that "come to Jesus" implies automatically receiving "eternal life"? What are you reading into the simple rebuke "But you are unwilling to come to me so that you might have life." We see in the very same chapter that many people came to Jesus who did not automatically receive eternal life.
In John 4:14 Jesus has already said, "But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst, but the water I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." The one who believes in Jesus, not the one who merely comes to Jesus, is given the Holy Spirit. Now in John 6:35 Jesus is saying that the one who believes in Him will never thirst. So, believing in Him is a prerequisite to receiving the Holy Spirit to quench their thirst for the power to do righteousness.
So, there are three different things in mind here.
1. coming to Jesus, that is, drawing near to Jesus for whatever motive, whether to listen to learn, or to listen to argue and accuse, or to get some blessing like healing or alms, or to see a miracle...
2. If coming hungry for a right standing with God, Jesus, the bread of life, will give teaching (fragments distributed from the loaf,) that will meet that need.
3. If coming thirsty for power to do righteousness believes in Jesus,, Jesus in an ongoing conversation based on a relationship, will keep on speaking words that are Spirit and life into the believer that empower him/her both to will and to do what pleases God.
Coming to Jesus is not in this text supposed to be equated to believing in Jesus, because the context makes it clear that many came to Jesus who did not believe in Him.
More accurately, everything (panta) the Father gives Jesus will come to Jesus. Jesus has been given every thing, including every person. In real time, the Father is giving Jesus certain things ( heat, cold, toe=redness, travel requirements, interactions with people liable to treat Jesus with abuse, or scorn, or criticism, or kindness...) each day as God wills. Jesus is confessing His need to accept whatever the father allots to him each day, and not to despise reject anyone who comes to Him, because He came to do the Fathers will, so that people might believe in Him.
Let me know whether you can now see why my point of view makes sense.
I already gave you the text references for Luke 6:13 a and b in the previous post, which is why I referred to it as the Luke 6 text.
"And when it was day, he called to him his disciples, and of them He chose twelve, whom He also named apostles."
Judas was already a disciple, so Judas must have already come to Jesus to hear and see what the Father was giving Jesus to do and say, The Father drew Judas even closer by making him an apostle.
What does your > mean? Are you assuming that "come to Jesus" implies automatically receiving "eternal life"? What are you reading into the simple rebuke "But you are unwilling to come to me so that you might have life." We see in the very same chapter that many people came to Jesus who did not automatically receive eternal life.
In John 4:14 Jesus has already said, "But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst, but the water I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." The one who believes in Jesus, not the one who merely comes to Jesus, is given the Holy Spirit. Now in John 6:35 Jesus is saying that the one who believes in Him will never thirst. So, believing in Him is a prerequisite to receiving the Holy Spirit to quench their thirst for the power to do righteousness.
So, there are three different things in mind here.
1. coming to Jesus, that is, drawing near to Jesus for whatever motive, whether to listen to learn, or to listen to argue and accuse, or to get some blessing like healing or alms, or to see a miracle...
2. If coming hungry for a right standing with God, Jesus, the bread of life, will give teaching (fragments distributed from the loaf,) that will meet that need.
3. If coming thirsty for power to do righteousness believes in Jesus,, Jesus in an ongoing conversation based on a relationship, will keep on speaking words that are Spirit and life into the believer that empower him/her both to will and to do what pleases God.
Coming to Jesus is not in this text supposed to be equated to believing in Jesus, because the context makes it clear that many came to Jesus who did not believe in Him.
More accurately, everything (panta) the Father gives Jesus will come to Jesus. Jesus has been given every thing, including every person. In real time, the Father is giving Jesus certain things ( heat, cold, toe=redness, travel requirements, interactions with people liable to treat Jesus with abuse, or scorn, or criticism, or kindness...) each day as God wills. Jesus is confessing His need to accept whatever the father allots to him each day, and not to despise reject anyone who comes to Him, because He came to do the Fathers will, so that people might believe in Him.
- 6:39 The Father's will so that (hina) He should lose nothing of what the Father gave Him but raise it up on the last day,(i.e. so that Jesus be perfectly obedient and qualify for resurrection and Messiahship, so that he can resurrect all men and then raise up all of the universe as a brand new creation) is that Jesus not reject anyone coming to Him (37b-38)
- 6:40 This is Jesus' Father's will (i.e. what was just stated above) so that (hina) all those who are believing in the Son through observing Him during His ministry may have eternal life, and Jesus will raise Hm up on the last day. Again, we should be careful to avoid the negative inference fallacy here too. Jusr because Jesus is going to raise these belivers on the last day does not mean these are the only ones who will be raised up on the last day.
- The Father has given all men to Jesus ; some of these men come to Jesus; of those who come to Jesus, He will not tell any to take a hike; some of these come to an understanding of Jesus and believe into Jesus; they will be given aeonous life; and Jesus will raise them in the last day.
Let me know whether you can now see why my point of view makes sense.
hina as in 6:40 is the object of the demonstrative pronoun outos. It is translated properly. this...that.
You're inserting "must have already come" and Luke is not John. First we remain in context in a specific document. Then as necessary we go to other documents. There's no need to go outside of John for what we're looking at in John6.
I'm skimming this so let me know if I miss something you'd like answered more completely.
"hina" here is purpose. The implication is clear. 5:39 You (pl) search the Scriptures because in them you think/consider to have eternal life and those [Scriptures] are the ones which testify concerning me 5:40 and you are not willing to come to Me so you may have life.
Sorry, I hit Post by mistake and don't want to wrestle with the editing time clock. Will take this to the next post.
You're inserting "must have already come" and Luke is not John. First we remain in context in a specific document. Then as necessary we go to other documents. There's no need to go outside of John for what we're looking at in John6.
I'm skimming this so let me know if I miss something you'd like answered more completely.
"hina" here is purpose. The implication is clear. 5:39 You (pl) search the Scriptures because in them you think/consider to have eternal life and those [Scriptures] are the ones which testify concerning me 5:40 and you are not willing to come to Me so you may have life.
- The purpose for coming to Jesus is clearly to have [eternal] life.
- Yes, there is more that takes place and John provides that instruction better than most anyone else in John 6. Jesus is simply taking them to the goal they're seeking and directing them where to find it.
- Jesus is also going to speak in some more parallelism: come to Him / receive Him / believe Jesus - at minimum believe His words.
- I see Jesus' words as being loaded, so to speak.
- To come to Him for [eternal] life presupposes He can give {eternal] life
- This is Messianic at minimum and Jesus is claiming in John 5 to be greater than Moses and that God is His Father. To come to Jesus is to come to the one who can grant eternal life. Not only is belief in Jesus presupposed in this language, but submission to Him is as well.
- To come to Him for [eternal] life presupposes He can give {eternal] life
- I see Jesus' words as being loaded, so to speak.
Sorry, I hit Post by mistake and don't want to wrestle with the editing time clock. Will take this to the next post.
God has rendered salvation "free" by grace through faith in His Son, and there is nothing left to pay on the debt for sin. However, there has been an "upcharge" of the smallest grain of consideration of faith written with a sharpie on torn off square of masking tape stuck on it for a proverbial garage sale. Many people may approach the sale, look it over, and deem it to be of no value to them, it's useless to them for whatever reason and so, even though they have a little grain of the consideration in their pouch with them, they leave it there. Is God unjust if He does not demand that everyone take the item?
The debt is the OT sin debt, now paid in full for all, and the grain of consideration is the NT price of entry for all.
The debt is the OT sin debt, now paid in full for all, and the grain of consideration is the NT price of entry for all.
I agree with those who see the neuter being used to speak of the entire group of people the Father gives to Jesus and this group is comprised of those described in the bullet points I laid out concerning them.
Addressed above. Yes God has given Jesus all things. This is discussed elsewhere in John. I see the neuter in John 6 speaking in context of the group of men/people God gives to Him. This seem clearly to be the context.
6:39 I've explained what I see as your mistake re: hina.
6:40 begins with "gar". It explains 6:39. Both hina's state what God's will is.
The context of J6 is clearly speaking of those men who come to and believe in Jesus for eternal life. This is the group of people that this section is focused on. Those who walk away are not said to have come to Jesus. Only the ones who the Father gives to Jesus come to Jesus as this phrase is being used. Jesus clearly says those who walk away were never given to Him by the Father. Thus they never came to Jesus as this phrase is being used.
Thanks for the discussion.
Addressed above. Yes God has given Jesus all things. This is discussed elsewhere in John. I see the neuter in John 6 speaking in context of the group of men/people God gives to Him. This seem clearly to be the context.
6:39 I've explained what I see as your mistake re: hina.
6:40 begins with "gar". It explains 6:39. Both hina's state what God's will is.
The context of J6 is clearly speaking of those men who come to and believe in Jesus for eternal life. This is the group of people that this section is focused on. Those who walk away are not said to have come to Jesus. Only the ones who the Father gives to Jesus come to Jesus as this phrase is being used. Jesus clearly says those who walk away were never given to Him by the Father. Thus they never came to Jesus as this phrase is being used.
Thanks for the discussion.
I reached a firm conclusion that this judgment as set forth is legitimate and at the highest rendering of justice, however you slice it. Jesus' death and burial justly takes our sin into consideration, considering that our sin is worthy death. And that His resurrection is a confirmation that God accepted His offering, then the consideration of faith required for entry into His life is also a legitimate charge that is required that all pay. Should the One who went through all the trouble not be allowed even a smidgeon of some sort of compensation?
Someone recently told an account of rich man's passing with no heirs and the subsequent auctioning of his vast estate which began with the items in his house. Among the items was a picture of Lulu (I'm just using that name for expedience), his dear wife, and a couple who knew her and how dear she was to him decided they would buy it as a keepsake in memory of them. And at the conclusion of the auction, it was revealed that whoever purchased the portrait of Lulu should inherited the entire estate.
Someone recently told an account of rich man's passing with no heirs and the subsequent auctioning of his vast estate which began with the items in his house. Among the items was a picture of Lulu (I'm just using that name for expedience), his dear wife, and a couple who knew her and how dear she was to him decided they would buy it as a keepsake in memory of them. And at the conclusion of the auction, it was revealed that whoever purchased the portrait of Lulu should inherited the entire estate.
If I understand your scenario, and I'm not altogether sure that I do, it seems like you have added works to salvation. That is, God has done all He needs to do, and each person needs to appropriate that salvation for themselves.
It's interesting that you acknowledged the need for the heart to be circumcised, and that you related this with the veil that hung in the temple. It is an excellent and accurate picture of what happens in salvation. The heart being "unveiled" is what enables the individual to understand their need before God and see into the holy of holies and be introduced to the risen Lamb. Belief is always the result of this unveiling. But an individual will not come and cannot come to this estate apart from the Spirit performing this function.
Incidentally, this is why both the Spirit and the word of God are employed together in salvation. One enables Belief, and the other is the substance of what is to be believed.
As far as would God be unjust in requiring individuals to appropriate their own salvation? Not by that act in and of itself. He is only unjust if He accepts the payment Jesus made for an individual and then required the individual to pay a second time.
It's interesting that you acknowledged the need for the heart to be circumcised, and that you related this with the veil that hung in the temple. It is an excellent and accurate picture of what happens in salvation. The heart being "unveiled" is what enables the individual to understand their need before God and see into the holy of holies and be introduced to the risen Lamb. Belief is always the result of this unveiling. But an individual will not come and cannot come to this estate apart from the Spirit performing this function.
Incidentally, this is why both the Spirit and the word of God are employed together in salvation. One enables Belief, and the other is the substance of what is to be believed.
As far as would God be unjust in requiring individuals to appropriate their own salvation? Not by that act in and of itself. He is only unjust if He accepts the payment Jesus made for an individual and then required the individual to pay a second time.
This conclusion seems to be rather inferred. There are many that believe they are not good enough for heaven and thus are destined for hell.
The Word of God offers the Truth, and the Spirit confirms the truth. That is, our spirit asks (the consideration of faith) but this isn't just asking 'into the air' our spirit asks of this particular Truth, directly, "are You?" and the Spirit answers, directly, with the Truth, that "I am."
I suppose one would have to erect the idea in such that way in order to so easily fling it aside.
Not if it is not sin the is being paid for but the admission into life, which only leaves those refusing payment only the only other choice by default.
The Word of God offers the Truth, and the Spirit confirms the truth. That is, our spirit asks (the consideration of faith) but this isn't just asking 'into the air' our spirit asks of this particular Truth, directly, "are You?" and the Spirit answers, directly, with the Truth, that "I am."
I suppose one would have to erect the idea in such that way in order to so easily fling it aside.
Not if it is not sin the is being paid for but the admission into life, which only leaves those refusing payment only the only other choice by default.
No one can enter except that he be born from above...
Nicodemus brought up going through the birth canal again and Jesus answered, "You are a master of Israel and yet are an idiot?" (Mem's Revised Edition)
and then set him aright...
13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.c 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.d
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”f
Notice the word above "practices" the truth is the Greek poion: a) I make, manufacture, construct, b) I do, act, cause
Nicodemus brought up going through the birth canal again and Jesus answered, "You are a master of Israel and yet are an idiot?" (Mem's Revised Edition)
and then set him aright...
13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.c 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.d
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”f
Notice the word above "practices" the truth is the Greek poion: a) I make, manufacture, construct, b) I do, act, cause
Faith does produce works. But works don't produce Faith.
Those who practice truth are saved people. They have come to truth as a result of their hearts being unveiled. But they didn't circumcise their own hearts.
Consider Acts 2:37 and 2:38. In verse 37 we find the work of God, and in verse 38 we find the response of those saved.
Those who practice truth are saved people. They have come to truth as a result of their hearts being unveiled. But they didn't circumcise their own hearts.
Consider Acts 2:37 and 2:38. In verse 37 we find the work of God, and in verse 38 we find the response of those saved.
I understand your view of it. I view the circumcision as to the purpose of enabling a sensitivity toward spiritual matters. Like, when David prayer that God create in Him a new heart, imo, as an indication of his, David's, acknowledgment of his present condition of callousness that needed something more than he had in himself to perform.
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