Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"
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This only makes me wonder why the translators felt the need to use different words for the same Greek. 
An example. For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whoever faith's in him will never perish.
You see the word faith does not fit.. However in the same token, We know Jesus was not just talking about mere belief.
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From Theologians. I do not trust Scholars because many are atheist but Theologians are Bible Professors in Bible Colleges.
This is what preachers in today's Bible colleges are taught by Theologians and I agree with 100%
(Rom 8:29-30) Notice the conjunction, “for”’; it ties what is about to be said with what has just been said. We know what God has done for the Old Testament saints, those that He “already knew, He predestined, (aorist indicative, completed action) to be conformed to the image or likeness of His Son. They died long before Jesus was even born but they are still a part of the promises of God! God planned from the beginning to bring their salvation to completion in Christ Jesus. Moreover, those He predestined (aorist indicative, completed action) He justified (aorist indicative, completed action) and those He justified He glorified (aorist indicative, completed action). If Paul had any intended notion that he was speaking to the Roman Christians he would have used the same tense he used previously in verse 16, that being the aorist passive subjective. He did not do so because he was speaking here of the Old Testament saints who had already died but God had provided hope for.
Theologians claim Paul in Romans 8:29-30 are speaking about the Old Testament Saints who God FOREKNEW and PREDESTINED to be conformed to be like Christ.
I agree with them 100%
This is what preachers in today's Bible colleges are taught by Theologians and I agree with 100%
(Rom 8:29-30) Notice the conjunction, “for”’; it ties what is about to be said with what has just been said. We know what God has done for the Old Testament saints, those that He “already knew, He predestined, (aorist indicative, completed action) to be conformed to the image or likeness of His Son. They died long before Jesus was even born but they are still a part of the promises of God! God planned from the beginning to bring their salvation to completion in Christ Jesus. Moreover, those He predestined (aorist indicative, completed action) He justified (aorist indicative, completed action) and those He justified He glorified (aorist indicative, completed action). If Paul had any intended notion that he was speaking to the Roman Christians he would have used the same tense he used previously in verse 16, that being the aorist passive subjective. He did not do so because he was speaking here of the Old Testament saints who had already died but God had provided hope for.
Theologians claim Paul in Romans 8:29-30 are speaking about the Old Testament Saints who God FOREKNEW and PREDESTINED to be conformed to be like Christ.
I agree with them 100%
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This is not at all difficult, Calvin ASSUMED upon human logic alone that if it be true that God has predestined and elected some to be saved then necessarily He must have passed over all others.
There IS no scripture for this.
we are predestined and chosen to be conformed to the image of God's Belovéd and we have been chosen in Christ before all worlds began to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace.
That is to be the church, His body.
It excludes NOBODY from being saved, in fact since all others are to be judged by how they dealt with the Lord's brethren it opens the door for a much, much greater mercy.
There IS no scripture for this.
we are predestined and chosen to be conformed to the image of God's Belovéd and we have been chosen in Christ before all worlds began to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace.
That is to be the church, His body.
It excludes NOBODY from being saved, in fact since all others are to be judged by how they dealt with the Lord's brethren it opens the door for a much, much greater mercy.
You start off with scripture but very soon veer off into man's logic and suppositions. You take theologians [however great] and hold their commentaries up as though it were scripture truth.
Nowhere does the bible say that God desires the death and damnation of the sinner. That's what theologians assume.
Nowhere does the bible say that God desires the death and damnation of the sinner. That's what theologians assume.
I believe it's a general statement concerning those God foreknew. Before God predestinates a man, he must first know the man as one of his. After knowing a man is one of his, he then determines that man's end result, thus "predestinates".
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. The adoption is to which a believer is predestined to. See Ephesians 1:5. It is the redemption of the body. It is a future event.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. The Spirit seals us unto the adoption, the redemption. See Ephesians 4:30.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? There is a point in time when God knows a man. Notice the phrase, "after that ye are...known of God."
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. The adoption is to which a believer is predestined to. See Ephesians 1:5. It is the redemption of the body. It is a future event.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. The Spirit seals us unto the adoption, the redemption. See Ephesians 4:30.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? There is a point in time when God knows a man. Notice the phrase, "after that ye are...known of God."
The Jews are among the most recognisable people upon earth. I can spot one from 500 yards in the dark Hitler knew who they were.
The covenant God made with Abraham and his seed is an everlasting covenant, the covenant of the law has ended.
Paul bases his doctrine of predestination and election upon God's dealings with Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Israel. Now if God does not keep His promise to them, how can you be sure He will keep His promise to you?
Moreover Paul says that the Jews the very enemies of the gospel yet as touching ELECTION they are beloved for the fathers for the call and gifts of God cannot be revoked.
Can't call back the blessing once it has been given [ask Esau] and all the prophecies concerning Israel are that their ending shall be greater than their beginning ... that one prophecy alone blows all opposition out of the water.
Hitler knew who they were.The covenant God made with Abraham and his seed is an everlasting covenant, the covenant of the law has ended.
Paul bases his doctrine of predestination and election upon God's dealings with Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Israel. Now if God does not keep His promise to them, how can you be sure He will keep His promise to you?
Moreover Paul says that the Jews the very enemies of the gospel yet as touching ELECTION they are beloved for the fathers for the call and gifts of God cannot be revoked.
Can't call back the blessing once it has been given [ask Esau] and all the prophecies concerning Israel are that their ending shall be greater than their beginning ... that one prophecy alone blows all opposition out of the water.
I definitely agree that God foreknew everything because in Isaiah God said He knew the "End from the Beginning" to show Isaiah no other gods can do that. So He was giving a characteristic of Who God is to Isaiah that is unlike what any other deity can claim.
But the reason I believe Paul is speaking about Old Testament Saints here is because what he wrote describes that God already foreknew the O.T. Saints and once Jesus DBR happened the O.T. Saints come under the same Blessing and Promise we have today.
Paul in previous chapters in Romans already established we (those saved after the DBR of Jesus) have that Promise but here he explains so does the Old Testament Saints.
But the reason I believe Paul is speaking about Old Testament Saints here is because what he wrote describes that God already foreknew the O.T. Saints and once Jesus DBR happened the O.T. Saints come under the same Blessing and Promise we have today.
Paul in previous chapters in Romans already established we (those saved after the DBR of Jesus) have that Promise but here he explains so does the Old Testament Saints.
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