Salvation is a Free Gift.
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No worries Cameron. I am off to my daughter's very soon until they return on Tuesday (it is a long weekend
here). .
. I will not be taking my laptop with me, so will only have my phone until I return home 
Heh, not that you need to know; just a general head's up, since I will not have access to any of my panels until then.
I should have just said we are saved by grace through faith, and not by grace and faith.No worries Cameron. I am off to my daughter's very soon until they return on Tuesday (it is a long weekend
here). .
Heh, not that you need to know; just a general head's up, since I will not have access to any of my panels until then.
And everyone needed to know. We set our schedules depending upon whether you are on your laptop or your phone.
It means you are not Justified by works of the Law, I showed you Christians are Justified by Jesus blood, What is your point? you said you are working on your sin, So you admit you are a sinner, and if you are working on your sin the verse applies to you because being justified means been made right with God. So if you are a sinner PaulThomson you are under the law and it is the law that shows you that.
Because I believe the faith in view in the verse is Christ's faith - we're saved by Christ's faith - that His faith satisfied the Father's will - and hence, the "not of yourselves" part of the verse. It was fully completed by Him and by His offering, at the end of which, He could say "it is finished". So, I don't think "in tandem" could be possible (unless, perhaps, I misunderstood your intent, and if I did, sorry). It is all by Christ, nothing by us - we are but beneficiaries of His achievement.
PaulThomson said:
What does Gal. 2:16-18, especially 17-18, mean, ThewindBlows?
16. Knowing that a man is not justified by works of the lw, but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faithfulness of Christ, and not by wrks of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves are also found to be sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself and transgressor."
What does Gal. 2:16-18, especially 17-18, mean, ThewindBlows?
16. Knowing that a man is not justified by works of the lw, but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faithfulness of Christ, and not by wrks of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves are also found to be sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself and transgressor."
So, a person seeking to be justified by Christ, can be a sinner, by continuing in some sin. What is sin? Anything not done out of faith is sin. Not doing the good I know I should do is sin. Do you always do everything out of faith? Do you always do the good you know God wants you to do? If you don't, then while you are not doing those, you are a sinner. When you are doing them, you are not a sinner.
Regardless of how one interprets whose faith it is, it is still by grace through faith.
Very true. But my reply was also in light of other posts associated to that one which seemed to set the stage for it (such as, for example, #1021 and #1023, if I recall correctly), instead of the verse being taken stand alone, at face value.
I do not believe there is anything either in tandem nor otherwise yet to be provided in order for someone to become saved - everything necessary for it has already been fully accomplished/satisfied by Christ, except that it be bestowed freely upon those individuals for whom it was intended. In thinking about it through, perhaps I disagreed with the wrong post. Again, Magenta, sorry if I've missed or misunderstood your point,
Indeed, brother Roger — The most important thing to remember is that Jesus is the only object of our salvation. Nothing else can be added to God's grace. —selah
Thank you Roger and no worries... I do understand your position and I was just clarifying in response to Cameron's post that it is not grace alone or faith alone but by grace through faith...
You have to hear the word of God to have faith.
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
This is a word of faith God tells a man an action and a result if he acts like this
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
Exodus 10:21-22
It was faith that made the darkness appear based on what God said to Moses and Moses action believing or Noah
“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, ( God told him what he would do and to build the ark ) moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
Hebrews 11:7 KJV
If God speaks to a person he’s offering faith if it’s this form of God telling us to do something and then telling us the result of we act upon it
Noah was saved by grace but through the hearing of faith
“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.( because of Gods grace towards him he was told )
And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make thee an ark of gopher wood; …. Detailed instructions for building the ark ) And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
….( Noah believes what god had told him so he acts in faith not seeing the flood yet but believing because God told him ) Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.”
Genesis 6:8, 13-14, 17-18, 22 KJV
God has never changed Noah was saved by grace through faith like chrirtoan a are we’re just not told about the flood because it already happened . we’ve been told like Noah tbat this world is going to be destroyed and all flesh will die but that there’s an ark we can board built of faith in Christ Jesus the lord and what he said to us before he suffered and died for us
If I just say Jesus does and rose but don’t hear what he said look what I’m missing
The words that give me faith and life in Gods sight and remove my condemnation
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
just like God saved Noah from a world that was doomed by speaking to him and inviting him to partake of a new covenant between he and the lord and to save his beloved family with him all because God was gracious and went and told Noah what was coming and Noah believed him and acted as if he believes what he said to him
This also is a word of faith for us now
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
and the lord said to Moses “ lift up thy hand that there may be …and Moses lifted up his hand and there was “
notice he’s making a promise for those who hear the gospel and act upon it they shall be saved because they believe and act upon the belief he gave us in the gospel
We do need to believe Jesus died for us on the cross but faith comes when we listen to his word of truth and life everlasting that promises salvation through him not the cross but through him the living God
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51 KJV
What about the things Jesus said that gets erased ?
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:3 KJV
a part of Gods grace ?
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;”
Titus 2:11-12 KJV
Do you know what Paul’s talking about that appeared to all men that saves them ? This grace of God ?
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
You had not said we were saved by grace and faith, but that we were saved by grace and NOT faith. That is why I added what I did... Save by grace through faith
The original post I responded to seemed to say we are saved by grace and faith.You had not said we were saved by grace and faith, but that we were saved by grace and NOT faith. That is why I added what I did... Save by grace through faith
I think a lot of the time Cameron is trying to point to the order Grace first and then through faith . Which benefits many who don’t distort what grace really is to get the order of grace through faith in proper rythym and rhyme.You had not said we were saved by grace and faith, but that we were saved by grace and NOT faith. That is why I added what I did... Save by grace through faith
You such a mellow guy brother it’s a good quality I bet you are as cool as a cucumber when others panic
God is gracious. There is not a time when He is not being gracious towards humanity. His grace is to be found in His providential care, in nature, in circumstances, in relationships, etc.
The grace that brings salvation is unique in that it employs faith. There is a supernatural element that attends salvation that is absent in the common grace that God provides to all. But because much of what God is doing in drawing the wayward one to Himself is done inwardly or the attendant circumstances are merely viewed as happenstance, much of the work of God in salvation is little realized by the new believer. This, accompanied by poor teaching on the subject, in my opinion, has robbed God of much of the glory of the salvation He has provided.