God and Time
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I understand your premise. But reality must have been created. Before that, there was what? Nothingness? And did such a state actually exist?
I get the idea of a thought experiment, but reconciling a thought experiment with reality is tricky sometimes. There has to be a possibility that the thought experiment can or did ever exist.
I get the idea of a thought experiment, but reconciling a thought experiment with reality is tricky sometimes. There has to be a possibility that the thought experiment can or did ever exist.
No, the argument has to do with whether motion/change is necessary to discern time, or the absence of motion/change means there is no time.
Thought experiment: Imagine a universe in motion. There is measurable time, because there are various rates of change relative to various regular rhythms in the system. God stops everything in its tracks such that, had everything continued as normal, the earth would have completed one revolution on its axis. Every molecule, atom, electron, electromagnetic wave and photon, was paused. The God restarts everything in its usual motion. Did time pass when everything was static?
I would say, for God, yes. Although nothing that had been paused would be able to know that everything had stopped. It may well be that motion is required to provide evidence of the passage of time, but since absence of evidence for the passage of time, namely absence of motion/change, is not evidence for the absence of the passage of time, we cannot conclude that time did not pass while there was no change/motion happening to measure or evidence the passage of time.
Since God saw the universe change from moving, to pausing and back to moving again, God saw time passing throughout the transitions, even though nothing in the universe could recognise time passing, because nothing other than God registered the change.needed to evidence time passing.
Hence, it is quite reasonable to believe that time can occur without any motion or change occurring in creation.
Thought experiment: Imagine a universe in motion. There is measurable time, because there are various rates of change relative to various regular rhythms in the system. God stops everything in its tracks such that, had everything continued as normal, the earth would have completed one revolution on its axis. Every molecule, atom, electron, electromagnetic wave and photon, was paused. The God restarts everything in its usual motion. Did time pass when everything was static?
I would say, for God, yes. Although nothing that had been paused would be able to know that everything had stopped. It may well be that motion is required to provide evidence of the passage of time, but since absence of evidence for the passage of time, namely absence of motion/change, is not evidence for the absence of the passage of time, we cannot conclude that time did not pass while there was no change/motion happening to measure or evidence the passage of time.
Since God saw the universe change from moving, to pausing and back to moving again, God saw time passing throughout the transitions, even though nothing in the universe could recognise time passing, because nothing other than God registered the change.needed to evidence time passing.
Hence, it is quite reasonable to believe that time can occur without any motion or change occurring in creation.
what time is it ? What time was that ? What time will you be here ? I have plenty of time left . I’m running out of time. Times up. Our Time has only just begun
It’s never the same time only once is it now
now is the reality time is the illusion it hearkens back and calls from ahead but now is real . It always is moving notice you cannot stop even a second of time from passing ? It’s because the universe is always moving time is that movement
If it ceases so does the relevance for any concept of time
Right you’re talking about a clock a time keeping device . Ask yourself what this is based upon when man made a clock . It’s based upon the movement in the universe that’s how clocks keep perfect time
your talking about a man made time keeping device copying the lords time creating device
does God grow older ? Or is he without beginning or end so therefore there is no passage of time ?
your talking about a man made time keeping device copying the lords time creating device
does God grow older ? Or is he without beginning or end so therefore there is no passage of time ?
Exactly what I was doing after reading your thinkin. That’s really all I’m ever doing.
ever notice how a fond or painful memory can seem so much like yesterday but it was fifty years ago ? Or how something that happened a long long time ago can always remain with you in your present ? Or even how you can have an expectation on the future that you are really excited about and just can’t wait for the time to arrive ?
Because as the present time passes those things aren’t within time they are left behind and float up lingering or forgotten
We think back but can’t remember most of the time we’ve had those irrelevant moments are as if they never existed in time but those important moments that become memories remain present as we walk in time.
time is a very subjective principle it can be sorrowful or full of joy but it’s always fleeting away by it’s nature always moving because it’s a result of that perpetual movement of our solar system at the least of not the entire universe
ever notice how a fond or painful memory can seem so much like yesterday but it was fifty years ago ? Or how something that happened a long long time ago can always remain with you in your present ? Or even how you can have an expectation on the future that you are really excited about and just can’t wait for the time to arrive ?
Because as the present time passes those things aren’t within time they are left behind and float up lingering or forgotten
We think back but can’t remember most of the time we’ve had those irrelevant moments are as if they never existed in time but those important moments that become memories remain present as we walk in time.
time is a very subjective principle it can be sorrowful or full of joy but it’s always fleeting away by it’s nature always moving because it’s a result of that perpetual movement of our solar system at the least of not the entire universe
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Cameron mentioned this itnis not everything happening as usual in the universe it’s different the time in the day was extended both the sin and moon stayed through the battle extending the time of victory it’s not things as usual it’s the creator showing his power towards his people
“And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Beth-horon, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; And thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, Until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies.( God has stopped the entire solar system until they win ) Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: ( Joshua said it by faith and the lord acted ) for the LORD fought for Israel.”
Joshua 10:11-14
“And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Beth-horon, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; And thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, Until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies.( God has stopped the entire solar system until they win ) Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: ( Joshua said it by faith and the lord acted ) for the LORD fought for Israel.”
Joshua 10:11-14
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The fallacy in His argument is that only God is self-existing...I am that I am. Nothing exists apart from God...in Him all things have their being. This is obviously true of time as well. It too has a beginning with God. But I do find the topic fascinating.
If we keep going, we will end up considering whether God created ex nihilo or ex Deo.
If we keep going, we will end up considering whether God created ex nihilo or ex Deo.
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Agree ot comes down to evolutionary theory if you pin down an evolutionist and ask about what caused the big band and what was before it the conclude the same argument Christian’s know of God he exists before all things even time even the universe . But they conclude the universe itself just is and always was
Its crearion v evolution really is where it leads did the universe exist or did God create it because the entire concept of time is based on the movements in the universe . Was the universe saying “ I am that I am “ of was the angel of the creator carrying his message saying “Moses I am than I Am “
creation says god created the universe therefore time is a result of that creative power and he is not subject to it but has rather subjected the universe to its regulation which he can obviously stop on a dime if he wills.
evolution is based upon the thought “ did God really create anything or was it just there and man created the creation theory ?
Ot seems a fundamental difference tbat will never come to agreement one ends at things just we’re the other at God created everything we see and perceive and time regulates it all
Its crearion v evolution really is where it leads did the universe exist or did God create it because the entire concept of time is based on the movements in the universe . Was the universe saying “ I am that I am “ of was the angel of the creator carrying his message saying “Moses I am than I Am “
creation says god created the universe therefore time is a result of that creative power and he is not subject to it but has rather subjected the universe to its regulation which he can obviously stop on a dime if he wills.
evolution is based upon the thought “ did God really create anything or was it just there and man created the creation theory ?
Ot seems a fundamental difference tbat will never come to agreement one ends at things just we’re the other at God created everything we see and perceive and time regulates it all
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