Salvation is a Free Gift.
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A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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Well my dear brother, Jesus said J of the B was Elijah.
Elijah began the process [carried forward by Elisha and King Jehu] of turning the remnant to the WHOLE nation of Israel back to Jehovah God. The whole nation was saved.
That's the purpose of the remnant, they keep the covenant alive and the covenant is salvation for the Jews ... not the covenant of Moses which was only introduced to reward good and punish bad, but the covenant of Abraham which includes all Israel.
God does not deal with Israel as He deals with the nations.
With us He calls us out one by one, individually, personally He calls us, even when we's saved in a bunch still it is and individual work, not so with Israel. He always deals with Israel as a nation, when they are blest they are blest as a nation, when they are punished they are punished as a nation.
They stumbled as a nation and they will rise again as a nation ,,, the remnant is a kind of guarantee, a promise for the future.
Again I ask with Paul "have they stumbled so as to fall? God forbid"
Elijah began the process [carried forward by Elisha and King Jehu] of turning the remnant to the WHOLE nation of Israel back to Jehovah God. The whole nation was saved.
That's the purpose of the remnant, they keep the covenant alive and the covenant is salvation for the Jews ... not the covenant of Moses which was only introduced to reward good and punish bad, but the covenant of Abraham which includes all Israel.
God does not deal with Israel as He deals with the nations.
With us He calls us out one by one, individually, personally He calls us, even when we's saved in a bunch still it is and individual work, not so with Israel. He always deals with Israel as a nation, when they are blest they are blest as a nation, when they are punished they are punished as a nation.
They stumbled as a nation and they will rise again as a nation ,,, the remnant is a kind of guarantee, a promise for the future.
Again I ask with Paul "have they stumbled so as to fall? God forbid"
Yes Israel's covenant is a curse. NOw because they broke it . It's why they were destroyed in 70 ad . God made a new covenant with them that's the one we are in it only began in Israel after John's baptism but then was extended to all nations from Jerusalem at the great commission.
What I was saying is have you ever really looked into all Jesus says of John the Baptist and Elijah regarding malichi chapters three and four and also Isaiahs " voice of one who cries in the wilderness ? There's alot of good information
What I was saying is have you ever really looked into all Jesus says of John the Baptist and Elijah regarding malichi chapters three and four and also Isaiahs " voice of one who cries in the wilderness ? There's alot of good information
Part I
I disagree with just about everything you’ve posted: with the wrong foundation, everything built upon that foundation becomes wrong too.
First, in a prior post, I asked you for clarification as to what you called my “main error” - the timing of the resurrection and raising according to your description of it- but you were unable to make that clarification. You further went on to erroneously say that it was I who was trying to skirt replying to you by raising that question. So, since you failed to provide it, you’ve completely invalidated your whole post, and as such, it deserves no further reply from me. Nevertheless, I will reply because I do not want to leave your statements (above) unrefuted so that others will not believe them to be correct.
Okay, rather than replying to each of your points individually, I'll try to identify and address their problems. Primarily, incorrect assumptions and a lack of biblical understanding on your part, are the causes of your error.
Only those saved will be raised on the last day. That however does not mean, nor do I say, that both the saved and unsaved will not be resurrected on the last day, because they will be – however, only the saved shall be raised – there is a big difference in concept between the two doctrines. You used “raise” and “resurrect” interchangeably not understanding the difference between the two and see them as being effectively equivalent, but they are not. I concluded from a review of the usages of “raised” and “resurrected” in the (KJV and ESV) Bibles, that "raised" was used differently than was "resurrected" relative to salvation and the last day- although at a quick glance, it may not initially seem so. If you look at my original reply (#530), you will find only verses using "raise", each, within the context of those saved. I did not find the word "raise" used in conjunction with the unsaved on the last day - so, while the unsaved will be resurrected, they will not be raised: all are resurrected – both saved and unsaved alike; however, only those saved will be raised. To be raised expresses the idea of the receiving of a new eternal spiritual body with eternal life. It was God's prerogative to choose and use words as He saw fit, with the meanings that He wanted applied to them. It is our responsibility to search their usages to truly understand how God employed them. We shouldn’t arbitrarily imply our assumptions as their meaning and should not overlay His intent with our misinterpretations.
I disagree with just about everything you’ve posted: with the wrong foundation, everything built upon that foundation becomes wrong too.
First, in a prior post, I asked you for clarification as to what you called my “main error” - the timing of the resurrection and raising according to your description of it- but you were unable to make that clarification. You further went on to erroneously say that it was I who was trying to skirt replying to you by raising that question. So, since you failed to provide it, you’ve completely invalidated your whole post, and as such, it deserves no further reply from me. Nevertheless, I will reply because I do not want to leave your statements (above) unrefuted so that others will not believe them to be correct.
Okay, rather than replying to each of your points individually, I'll try to identify and address their problems. Primarily, incorrect assumptions and a lack of biblical understanding on your part, are the causes of your error.
Only those saved will be raised on the last day. That however does not mean, nor do I say, that both the saved and unsaved will not be resurrected on the last day, because they will be – however, only the saved shall be raised – there is a big difference in concept between the two doctrines. You used “raise” and “resurrect” interchangeably not understanding the difference between the two and see them as being effectively equivalent, but they are not. I concluded from a review of the usages of “raised” and “resurrected” in the (KJV and ESV) Bibles, that "raised" was used differently than was "resurrected" relative to salvation and the last day- although at a quick glance, it may not initially seem so. If you look at my original reply (#530), you will find only verses using "raise", each, within the context of those saved. I did not find the word "raise" used in conjunction with the unsaved on the last day - so, while the unsaved will be resurrected, they will not be raised: all are resurrected – both saved and unsaved alike; however, only those saved will be raised. To be raised expresses the idea of the receiving of a new eternal spiritual body with eternal life. It was God's prerogative to choose and use words as He saw fit, with the meanings that He wanted applied to them. It is our responsibility to search their usages to truly understand how God employed them. We shouldn’t arbitrarily imply our assumptions as their meaning and should not overlay His intent with our misinterpretations.
Part II
Next is the word "cometh". Those who will become saved "cometh" to Jesus only if they come from/by the Father. This is clearly stated in John 6:37 & 6:44. Now that you can see what “raised” actually means, you should be able to comprehend this doctrine. Again, only those who come to Jesus from the Father, they alone, will be saved by Jesus, and He will raised-up on the last day. Others may come to Jesus, in that they might hear Him superficially for a time with man's hearing, but they will not remain with Him, they will not take His gospel to heart, and they will not be raised on the last day. Intellectually hanging out with Jesus is not the same as the “cometh to me”. Being indwelled with the Holy Spirit and being given true faith and the knowledge of Christ as Saviour is the only way that one comes to Christ - and it happens solely from/by God’s teaching - His gifts to them. So, what that verse is stating, is that the Father teaches those He is going to save through/by the faith He gives to them, and that faith being in Christ alone as their Saviour which is taken by them to heart. Through that, they come to Christ. Coming to Christ is not achieved through talking about Him, reading about Him, having an intellectual interest in Him, etc., it is only by having true faith in, and knowledge in/of, Christ which is given to them – a change in someone’s heart relative to Christ demonstrates that they have truly come to Christ.
Regarding Christ’s power over all flesh, Christ was, in fact, given that power, so that only those given to Him by the Father will He give eternal life to. It was written in the aorist tense because it is still open-ended and will remain so insofar as many of those chosen remain to become saved. They will continue to be given to Christ up until the last day. When the last person to be saved on the last day is given by the Father to Christ, then the end will come. Were it otherwise, and dependent (only) that a person chooses Christ – the end could never come because as long as people continued to be born, there would be no way to know when all had come to Christ since it would rest upon themselves and not upon God nor His salvation plan. God eliminated this open-ended proposition by He alone being the one who from the beginning, had determined who would come to Christ and who wouldn’t.
Lastly, is your comment that there is an "outside group", who can come to Christ. That is wrong. There is no such group. No one can come to Christ, but that they be given to Christ by the Father, and that is exactly the reason why I included John 17:2 in my reply. It specifically states that Jesus was given power over all flesh, and by/with that power received the prerogative to give eternal life to ONLY those whom God has given to Him - only those whom the Father chose - and not to any of those not of them: from the Father to Christ, from Christ to those chosen. That verse, of itself, if read closely and correctly (which apparently you didn’t do), conclusively proves that – while Christ has power over everyone only those given to Christ by the Father will He give eternal life to and raise them up at the last day - for the rest, not. IOW, if someone was not given to Christ by the Father, even though they may "cometh to him" in their own way, they will never receive eternal life. Look closely at the “that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him” in the verse (below). Do you see the “as many as”? That reduces the total pool of “all flesh” that He will give eternal life to down to only to those given to Christ by the Father: both sides of the equation are represented there. If God had desired to convey what you said He did, then the verse should have instead stated “that he should give eternal life to as many as choose him” but God didn’t state it that way, so it cannot mean what you said it means.
[Jhn 17:2 KJV] 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
I, therefore, maintain that the verses included in my post were correctly included in the context stated therein, and should be considered full evidence that only those chosen by God will become saved and raised on the last day. In the future, I will employ the verses in the same manner that I have in the past and at every opportunity that presents itself for doing so, because that is their correct interpretation.
Therefore, there was no failure with my claim as you stated above. Instead, you, along with the “we” have demonstrated that you do not comprehend the most fundamental principles of salvation.
Next is the word "cometh". Those who will become saved "cometh" to Jesus only if they come from/by the Father. This is clearly stated in John 6:37 & 6:44. Now that you can see what “raised” actually means, you should be able to comprehend this doctrine. Again, only those who come to Jesus from the Father, they alone, will be saved by Jesus, and He will raised-up on the last day. Others may come to Jesus, in that they might hear Him superficially for a time with man's hearing, but they will not remain with Him, they will not take His gospel to heart, and they will not be raised on the last day. Intellectually hanging out with Jesus is not the same as the “cometh to me”. Being indwelled with the Holy Spirit and being given true faith and the knowledge of Christ as Saviour is the only way that one comes to Christ - and it happens solely from/by God’s teaching - His gifts to them. So, what that verse is stating, is that the Father teaches those He is going to save through/by the faith He gives to them, and that faith being in Christ alone as their Saviour which is taken by them to heart. Through that, they come to Christ. Coming to Christ is not achieved through talking about Him, reading about Him, having an intellectual interest in Him, etc., it is only by having true faith in, and knowledge in/of, Christ which is given to them – a change in someone’s heart relative to Christ demonstrates that they have truly come to Christ.
Regarding Christ’s power over all flesh, Christ was, in fact, given that power, so that only those given to Him by the Father will He give eternal life to. It was written in the aorist tense because it is still open-ended and will remain so insofar as many of those chosen remain to become saved. They will continue to be given to Christ up until the last day. When the last person to be saved on the last day is given by the Father to Christ, then the end will come. Were it otherwise, and dependent (only) that a person chooses Christ – the end could never come because as long as people continued to be born, there would be no way to know when all had come to Christ since it would rest upon themselves and not upon God nor His salvation plan. God eliminated this open-ended proposition by He alone being the one who from the beginning, had determined who would come to Christ and who wouldn’t.
Lastly, is your comment that there is an "outside group", who can come to Christ. That is wrong. There is no such group. No one can come to Christ, but that they be given to Christ by the Father, and that is exactly the reason why I included John 17:2 in my reply. It specifically states that Jesus was given power over all flesh, and by/with that power received the prerogative to give eternal life to ONLY those whom God has given to Him - only those whom the Father chose - and not to any of those not of them: from the Father to Christ, from Christ to those chosen. That verse, of itself, if read closely and correctly (which apparently you didn’t do), conclusively proves that – while Christ has power over everyone only those given to Christ by the Father will He give eternal life to and raise them up at the last day - for the rest, not. IOW, if someone was not given to Christ by the Father, even though they may "cometh to him" in their own way, they will never receive eternal life. Look closely at the “that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him” in the verse (below). Do you see the “as many as”? That reduces the total pool of “all flesh” that He will give eternal life to down to only to those given to Christ by the Father: both sides of the equation are represented there. If God had desired to convey what you said He did, then the verse should have instead stated “that he should give eternal life to as many as choose him” but God didn’t state it that way, so it cannot mean what you said it means.
[Jhn 17:2 KJV] 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
I, therefore, maintain that the verses included in my post were correctly included in the context stated therein, and should be considered full evidence that only those chosen by God will become saved and raised on the last day. In the future, I will employ the verses in the same manner that I have in the past and at every opportunity that presents itself for doing so, because that is their correct interpretation.
Therefore, there was no failure with my claim as you stated above. Instead, you, along with the “we” have demonstrated that you do not comprehend the most fundamental principles of salvation.
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These Theologians range from Reformed to non Reformed (using the terminology here).
The one thing we do know for a fact on these forums, there ""ARE NO"" Greek Theologians in the New Testament just a bunch of people who think we got a clue.
With that in mind, I trust the Theologian even over my own New Testament understanding and yours (no offense taken I pray).
The one thing we do know for a fact on these forums, there ""ARE NO"" Greek Theologians in the New Testament just a bunch of people who think we got a clue.
With that in mind, I trust the Theologian even over my own New Testament understanding and yours (no offense taken I pray).
i haven't been offended yet. you'll have to try harder. lol
did i see you say you're from Rockland? that's near to my neck of the woods.
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I had just been inquiring regarding Elijah because of what bro emvur said about Elijah's return . And was wondering if he had been considering the many things Jesus and the prophets said regarding Elijah and John
Malachi 3:1 KJV
[1] Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mark 1:1-2, 4, 6 KJV
[1] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; [2] As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.
[4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
[6] And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
2 Kings 1:8 KJV
[8] And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.
Malachi 4:5-6 KJV
[5] Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: [6] and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse
theres alot more but so you can see the reason I asked him about what Jesus said regarding Elijah
Matthew 11:7-10, 13-15 KJV
[7] And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? [8] But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. [9] But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. [10] For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.
[13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. [14] And if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come. [15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
There's a bunch more but you see the idea it's a really informative and enlightening study regarding the fulfillment of the law and prophets and the arrival of the covenant given by the lord which John's ministry immediately proceeded
Malachi 3:1 KJV
[1] Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mark 1:1-2, 4, 6 KJV
[1] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; [2] As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.
[4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
[6] And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
2 Kings 1:8 KJV
[8] And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.
Malachi 4:5-6 KJV
[5] Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: [6] and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse
theres alot more but so you can see the reason I asked him about what Jesus said regarding Elijah
Matthew 11:7-10, 13-15 KJV
[7] And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? [8] But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. [9] But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. [10] For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.
[13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. [14] And if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come. [15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
There's a bunch more but you see the idea it's a really informative and enlightening study regarding the fulfillment of the law and prophets and the arrival of the covenant given by the lord which John's ministry immediately proceeded
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Does God not GRANT us repentance? Look I want to be very clear, I don't disagree with our choice, nor what we go through as these things take place in real time. What I am disagreeing with is exactly how much credit we get, and how big a role does our choice play. I think raising that too high is wrong and to believe that I have anything at all to do with my salvation is as wrong as I could be. I agree we are told clearly that we do choose, you have to ignore the called, drawn, predestine, total sovereignty over all creation verses along with the "no man can come to me, no man seeks God", "Salvation is of God least any man boast" verses that fill all of scripture. We have to take scripture as a whole and while I have no clue how Gods sovereignty works with our choice to bring about His perfect plan, what I can tell you is it was not my choice that saved me. It was Him alone that saved me, after I fell as short as a man could.
He gives it freely to those who acknowledge the truth
“; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37
repentance comes as a result we hear what the lords really saying go and believe him acknolwedging the truth . We cant learn from Jesus without learning repentance
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32
“; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37
repentance comes as a result we hear what the lords really saying go and believe him acknolwedging the truth . We cant learn from Jesus without learning repentance
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32
now you're missing the point of what I am saying.
The Mosaic covenant which was blessing or curse was only temporary, interposed upon the covenant God made with Abraham and all his seed, seed in number more than all the stars that could be counted in the night sky, and more than the sand that could be counted on the seashore. THAT is an everlasting covenant which was by no means annulled by Moses.
We are graciously included in the Abrahamic covenant, this is not the covenant made in Jesu's precious blood but we gain access to the Abrahamic covenant through the new covenant, which also was made with Israel.
You cain't cut the Jews out, our covenant in Jesu's blood will always stand but the Abrahamic covenant is dependent upon the Jews.
Malachi ends "behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes and he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers lest I come and smite the land with a curse."
"....lest I smite the land with a curse" to me means that He must turn their hearts WHY do I read it thus? because in many other places the promise to Israel is that their ending will be more blest than their beginning.
The Jews were NOT destroyed in 70ad, they were chucked out of the land. As a nation they have survived as a nation within the nations and just as surely as God chucked 'em out like He said He would so will He bring them back in the latter times to their homeland, gazooks man, He's doing it before your very eyes.
The great Prophet Paul says "they have been cast away ... but they shall be gathered, they have been diminished ... but they will be accepted. All Israel will be saved.
The Mosaic covenant which was blessing or curse was only temporary, interposed upon the covenant God made with Abraham and all his seed, seed in number more than all the stars that could be counted in the night sky, and more than the sand that could be counted on the seashore. THAT is an everlasting covenant which was by no means annulled by Moses.
We are graciously included in the Abrahamic covenant, this is not the covenant made in Jesu's precious blood but we gain access to the Abrahamic covenant through the new covenant, which also was made with Israel.
You cain't cut the Jews out, our covenant in Jesu's blood will always stand but the Abrahamic covenant is dependent upon the Jews.
Malachi ends "behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes and he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers lest I come and smite the land with a curse."
"....lest I smite the land with a curse" to me means that He must turn their hearts WHY do I read it thus? because in many other places the promise to Israel is that their ending will be more blest than their beginning.
The Jews were NOT destroyed in 70ad, they were chucked out of the land. As a nation they have survived as a nation within the nations and just as surely as God chucked 'em out like He said He would so will He bring them back in the latter times to their homeland, gazooks man, He's doing it before your very eyes.
The great Prophet Paul says "they have been cast away ... but they shall be gathered, they have been diminished ... but they will be accepted. All Israel will be saved.
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i think actually you’ve not understood what I said this is not what I said
“You cain't cut the Jews out, our covenant in Jesu's blood will always stand but the Abrahamic covenant is dependent upon the Jews.”
This is my point
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
The new covenant is Jesus word and is consecrated by the shedding of his own blood it was the new covenant he promised to make with Israel
“The law and the prophets ( ot ) were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached,( nt ) and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
It began in israel being preached only to them
“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15 KJV
It would then be preached by the remnant of Israel preserved to spread the one and only gospel to all nations
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you( this is our covenant word ) and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
Israel’s promised new covenant was given first to them but rejected by the nation and then preached to gentiles by those individuals who believes
I’m not “ cutting out Jews or anyone else “
I’m saying they broke the first cofenwnt he made with them and became cursed and he then sent Jesus to make a new covenant with them and the audience for that new covenant was extended to all nations
The old covenant is why the world is going to end read the curses in the law upon breaking it
“You cain't cut the Jews out, our covenant in Jesu's blood will always stand but the Abrahamic covenant is dependent upon the Jews.”
This is my point
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
The new covenant is Jesus word and is consecrated by the shedding of his own blood it was the new covenant he promised to make with Israel
“The law and the prophets ( ot ) were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached,( nt ) and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
It began in israel being preached only to them
“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15 KJV
It would then be preached by the remnant of Israel preserved to spread the one and only gospel to all nations
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you( this is our covenant word ) and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
Israel’s promised new covenant was given first to them but rejected by the nation and then preached to gentiles by those individuals who believes
I’m not “ cutting out Jews or anyone else “
I’m saying they broke the first cofenwnt he made with them and became cursed and he then sent Jesus to make a new covenant with them and the audience for that new covenant was extended to all nations
The old covenant is why the world is going to end read the curses in the law upon breaking it
No. Only that is not clearly stated, i.e. that "those who will become saved "cometh" to Jesus only if they come from/by the Father." It is implied that those of Jesus contemporaries who will become saved are coming to Jesus during Jesus ministry only if they are drawn by the Father. But it is also implied that many of Jesus contemporaries who will not become saved are also coming to Jesus during Jesus ministry only if they are drawn by the Father. As per John 6:44
"No man can come to Me except the Father, which has sent Me, draw him."
John 6:37 says that everything coming Jesus' way was sent by the Father. Since all the people coming to Jesus were sent by the Father, Jesus commits to not casting any of them out of His presence while they want to be there, even if it is to argue or falsely accuse Him over the things the Father is saying or doing through Jesus in order to draw them to Him.
"Everything that the Father is giving Me will come to Me; and him that is coming to me I will in no wise cast out."
"No man can come to Me except the Father, which has sent Me, draw him."
John 6:37 says that everything coming Jesus' way was sent by the Father. Since all the people coming to Jesus were sent by the Father, Jesus commits to not casting any of them out of His presence while they want to be there, even if it is to argue or falsely accuse Him over the things the Father is saying or doing through Jesus in order to draw them to Him.
"Everything that the Father is giving Me will come to Me; and him that is coming to me I will in no wise cast out."
Okay I get it, you think God needs your help in salvation, that you have to "do" something to be saved. You believe you have something to boast about. You reduce Gods glory to lift up your own. I get it. I disagree and KNOW it's ALL God that saved me and I did 0%. We disagree. Have a great day.
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Okay I get it, you think God needs your help in salvation, that you have to "do" something to be saved. You believe you have something to boast about. You reduce Gods glory to lift up your own. I get it. I disagree and KNOW it's ALL God that saved me and I did 0%. We disagree. Have a great day.
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Whether someone was of His "contemporary" or not had/has nothing to do with it. Jesus was speaking spiritual doctrine.
There is no such thing implied "that many of Jesus contemporizes who were drawn by the Father will not become saved.
That would be in direct violation to what the verses clearly state.
Jesus committed that all who come to Him from God, and from God alone, He would unconditionally raise on the last day. Do you see the "no one can come to me" part, and the "I will raise him up on the last day" part? That leaves no room for dispute as to how, why, and what will happen, and to whom it will happen to.
[Jhn 6:44 ESV] 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Did you understand John 17:2?
Okay, I'm not going to keep going around in circles on this. The verses are clear - you've read into them something that isn't there, and by repeating myself further at this point, isn't going to help.
There is no such thing implied "that many of Jesus contemporizes who were drawn by the Father will not become saved.
That would be in direct violation to what the verses clearly state.
Jesus committed that all who come to Him from God, and from God alone, He would unconditionally raise on the last day. Do you see the "no one can come to me" part, and the "I will raise him up on the last day" part? That leaves no room for dispute as to how, why, and what will happen, and to whom it will happen to.
[Jhn 6:44 ESV] 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Did you understand John 17:2?
Okay, I'm not going to keep going around in circles on this. The verses are clear - you've read into them something that isn't there, and by repeating myself further at this point, isn't going to help.