The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?

[studier]

I qualified it brother. You have to say something smart first.

Your avatar fits your posts! Good choice. Still smiling at this post.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'd disagree with you a bit here. Jesus's more complete instruction was to first remove the log from our own eye so we could see more clearly. He also said to judge with righteous judgment. Paul's continuing instruction was to rebuke the Corinthian Church for treating a the needed congregational judiciary so lightly and he correlated the lack of ability to judge with the lack of wisdom. We can see how Paul judged a sinful Christian in Corinth and judged that he should be put out of the congregation. He follows up on this in 2Cor. This follows the instruction of Jesus in Matt18 about the process of dealing with sin against one another. The Scripture so many use about 2 or more being assembled in His name is in the context of this judiciary process in the assembly and is legal language from the OT and Jesus says He'll be right there with those final judges in their decision.

I see this judgment issue among Christians as another example of us not knowing who we are in Christ and thereby defeating ourselves and what we're here for in Christ in Spirit. We have in us what is the seed of eternity and we've stunted our growth in unbelief and perpetual infancy.

Yes, there are warnings about judging and there is even a point where Paul speaks of not judging himself beyond a point and leaving it to Jesus Christ. But not judging at all is not Biblical in Christ. It'[s part of the reason for the free-for-all in and fall of many churches.

We have to make judgements every day about life . We are not to judge other Christian’s in any way look you have to do this too

“Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:4, 9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

right ? You don’t ever have to give an account for any other soul but you and they can’t judge you either only the judge can

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice Peter an apostle is saying this he’s not saying “ I’m your judge “ he’s saying Christ commanded us to preach that he is the judge .

The reason we don’t want to judge anyone else is here in the judges words

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38, 46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we need to accept that because of this notice Paul is saying this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Brother I’m in no way telling you you’re wrong I’m telling you this is where I’m firmly planted I’m no man’s judge not a bad man or a worse man not a Christian of a Jew not a slave or free man I’m no ones judge

Im awaiting a sure court date to see the judge so when I go there I want to not be condemned not be judged guilty I want to be forgiven I want and need mercy

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:….

my faith is built upon his words o will judge me

 

[Cameron143]

Your avatar fits your posts! Good choice. Still smiling at this post.

I appreciate the kind words. Unlike many, I recognize the universe altering affects of the cross.

 

[studier]

We have to make judgements every day about life . We are not to judge other Christian’s in any way look you have to do this too

“Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:4, 9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know you know we always have to note the context which in close context here is Roman 14:1 and then through 14:2-3.

ESV Romans 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. (Rom. 14:1 ESV)

The context is not judging one another in how they reason certain things. Paul then gives some examples.

When it gets to judging sin, it is important for some to gain wisdom to be able to do so. In fact, to fulfill the Law of Christ, it seems one must be able to judge any sin:

NKJ Galatians 6:1-2 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

In one sense at least, when Paul speaks of being "spiritual" he seems not only to be speaking of our relationship with Christ and His Spirit, but also of maturity, which would closely parallel Heb5:13-6:3.

It's also important as we've already discussed to recognize our gifts and places in His Body and rest there doing His will. As is taught, there is no part of His Body that is less important than any other part. But every part His Body does have to do His will for the whole to function properly.

my faith is built upon his words o will judge me

FWIW, I think I see this. Mine too. My simplified personal eschatology is the 2Cor5:10 you posted and His determining when this takes place.

 

[studier]

I appreciate the kind words. Unlike many, I recognize the universe altering affects of the cross.

I watched and listened to an unbeliever (maybe a prodigal) recently who had a good attitude towards the "haters". In essence it was one of being unable to take seriously any and all hate directed at him because he had come to the conclusion that we're all struggling with what's going on inside of us and he knows he really can't even trust his own thoughts and must undertake a lot of serious introspection to try to understand them. He knows few will even begin to do this and are just flailing away striking at almost whatever they encounter. He actually seemed truly entertained by it all.

I found him to be more honest and introspective than many professed "Spirit filled" Christians. Even more interesting I'm somewhat sad to say.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I know you know we always have to note the context which in close context here is Roman 14:1 and then through 14:2-3.

ESV Romans 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. (Rom. 14:1 ESV)

The context is not judging one another in how they reason certain things. Paul then gives some examples.

When it gets to judging sin, it is important for some to gain wisdom to be able to do so. In fact, to fulfill the Law of Christ, it seems one must be able to judge any sin:

NKJ Galatians 6:1-2 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

In one sense at least, when Paul speaks of being "spiritual" he seems not only to be speaking of our relationship with Christ and His Spirit, but also of maturity, which would closely parallel Heb5:13-6:3.

It's also important as we've already discussed to recognize our gifts and places in His Body and rest there doing His will. As is taught, there is no part of His Body that is less important than any other part. But every part His Body does have to do His will for the whole to function properly.




FWIW, I think I see this. Mine too. My simplified personal eschatology is the 2Cor5:10 you posted and His determining when this takes place.

NKJ Galatians 6:1-2 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Amen in deed to this part definately this is far from casting judgment deciding who’s in or out who really belongs to Christ ect judging others condemning others seating up high above others looking down on them refusing to forgive others ect

awe shouldnt ignore sin in the church this has nothing to do with judgement we are meant to help others share the word of Christ with them introduce them to Jesus and the gospel so he can save them like he saves us we have to spread Jesus and the gospel , let him work it out


You know the easiest way to get someone to not listen to what you have to say about Jesus ? Start telling them what they are doing wrong and need to change before he’ll accept and save them . We need to share him with people. And the things he said will save them

thats all I really know for sure in my mind is that Jesus came into the world to save sinners and if we will sonoly reach out and respond to the gospels call to us personally he’s going to save us and give us the things he swore by his own blood to accomplish

My main point is nothing about you but me my belief is to just share whatever i know about Jesus and the gospel with people but also learn what he taught us to do and not judge each other for our sins but let the one who suffered and died for them do that part when he gives them his spirit like he does each of us upon belief

also understsnding it’s Jesus that can save people and give them life or turn them away we simply don’t have the same position as the apostles had they are extremely special.

In a place like a Bible discussion forum we discuss the Bible in life it’s very different we are to follow
It as we are able to learn as he allows


But listen I’m not saying you’re wrong maybe you have a special calling that’s a real thing . I’m just a sheep trying to make it home

 

[Cameron143]

I watched and listened to an unbeliever (maybe a prodigal) recently who had a good attitude towards the "haters". In essence it was one of being unable to take seriously any and all hate directed at him because he had come to the conclusion that we're all struggling with what's going on inside of us and he knows he really can't even trust his own thoughts and must undertake a lot of serious introspection to try to understand them. He knows few will even begin to do this and are just flailing away striking at almost whatever they encounter. He actually seemed truly entertained by it all.

I found him to be more honest and introspective than many professed "Spirit filled" Christians. Even more interesting I'm somewhat sad to say.

If all Israel were not of Israel, it's likely that not all the church is of the church.

 

[studier]

If all Israel were not of Israel, it's likely that not all the church is of the church.

and darnel looks just like wheat until harvested...

 

[Magenta]

I'd disagree with you a bit here. Jesus's more complete instruction was to first remove the log from our own eye so we could see more clearly. He also said to judge with righteous judgment. Paul's continuing instruction was to rebuke the Corinthian Church for treating a the needed congregational judiciary so lightly and he correlated the lack of ability to judge with the lack of wisdom. We can see how Paul judged a sinful Christian in Corinth and judged that he should be put out of the congregation. He follows up on this in 2Cor. This follows the instruction of Jesus in Matt18 about the process of dealing with sin against one another. The Scripture so many use about 2 or more being assembled in His name is in the context of this judiciary process in the assembly and is legal language from the OT and Jesus says He'll be right there with those final judges in their decision.

I see this judgment issue among Christians as another example of us not knowing who we are in Christ and thereby defeating ourselves and what we're here for in Christ in Spirit. We have in us what is the seed of eternity and we've stunted our growth in unbelief and perpetual infancy.

Yes, there are warnings about judging and there is even a point where Paul speaks of not judging himself beyond a point and leaving it to Jesus Christ. But not judging at all is not Biblical in Christ. It'[s part of the reason for the free-for-all in and fall of many churches.

Matthew 7:2b-3 plus 5

 

[Dino246]

Jews. No.

Agreed.

What are your views re: Law?

The Law is not binding on Christians.

 

[Dino246]

Those who walk in His Spirit are not an enmity against God’s law Rom 8:4-8

You can quote it, but you don't appear to understand it.

Paul is hard to understand and never taught anything different than Christ, he was a servant of Christ Rom 1:1, but his teachings came with a warning for this very reason as if he was not in harmony with what Christ taught. He kept every Sabbath Acts 13:42-44 Acts 18:4 decades after the cross so obviously there are misunderstandings in his words hence 2 Peter 3:16

Scripture does not say that Paul kept every sabbath decades after the cross. Acts 13 mentions him being in the synagogues a few successive sabbaths, and Acts 18 is specific to Corinth.

Paul is not teaching we can murder, vain God’s name, worship other gods, covet or break the least of these commanemnts the opposite of what Jesus taught, he is contrasting walking in His Spirit vs walking in the letter of the law. The Spirit is greater than the letter, not lessor and if walking in His Spirit the letter would automatically be kept just as Jesus taught Mat 5:19-30

Typical legalistic misrepresentation of freedom in Christ. Those filled with the Spirit of God aren't interested in murdering, blaspheming, idolatry, or any of the other sins with which you accuse us.

 

[TMS]

Typical legalistic misrepresentation of freedom in Christ. Those filled with the Spirit of God aren't interested in murdering, blaspheming, idolatry, or any of the other sins with which you accuse us.

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

The law is truth.
Jesus is truth. Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus keep the law perfectly.

He didn't come to destroy the law.

He saves us from the penalty of sin. We are set free in Christ from sin (the transgression of the law).
We are not saved to sin freely, and the death of Christ did not change God's definition of sin.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[studier]

The Law is not binding on Christians.

What about the Law of Christ?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Remind me what covenant the verses in Exodus are a part of.

God calls the Ten Commandments- His covenant

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

What about the Law of Christ?

God is Christ- Christ is God, same God, same law.

 

[Cameron143]

God calls the Ten Commandments- His covenant

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Whatever you may think about the law, it's important to understand the covenants. The old covenant was between God and Israel. Entrance into the covenant was largely by birth. That's why Jerusalem was destroyed. They failed to keep the stipulations of the covenant and suffered the sanctions that the covenant called for.
The new covenant is between God the Father and God the Son. Entrance into this covenant is by spiritual birth. All the stipulations of this covenant have been fulfilled so there are no sanctions left to be meted out. That's why there is no longer any condemnation for those who are partakers of this covenant...those in Christ.
Until you understand this, you will continue under the old covenant and trample under foot the grace of God in Christ.

 

[studier]

Whatever you may think about the law, it's important to understand the covenants. The old covenant was between God and Israel. Entrance into the covenant was largely by birth. That's why Jerusalem was destroyed. They failed to keep the stipulations of the covenant and suffered the sanctions that the covenant called for.
The new covenant is between God the Father and God the Son. Entrance into this covenant is by spiritual birth. All the stipulations of this covenant have been fulfilled so there are no sanctions left to be meted out. That's why there is no longer any condemnation for those who are partakers of this covenant...those in Christ.
Until you understand this, you will continue under the old covenant and trample under foot the grace of God in Christ.

Explain? Jer31 & Heb8 speak of the New Covenant with the house of Israel and house of Judah with Jesus Christ in His Priestly role as the Mediator.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Whatever you may think about the law, it's important to understand the covenants. The old covenant was between God and Israel. Entrance into the covenant was largely by birth. That's why Jerusalem was destroyed. They failed to keep the stipulations of the covenant and suffered the sanctions that the covenant called for.
The new covenant is between God the Father and God the Son. Entrance into this covenant is by spiritual birth. All the stipulations of this covenant have been fulfilled so there are no sanctions left to be meted out. That's why there is no longer any condemnation for those who are partakers of this covenant...those in Christ.
Until you understand this, you will continue under the old covenant and trample under foot the grace of God in Christ.

This is what scripture says...

Who is speaking here? It's God.

Jer 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Heb 10:16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”

And why the New Covenant is established on better promises, Heb 8:6 not better or new laws because God wrote His perfect law on stone and now placed in in our hearts and gives us the power to keep them through faith and love John 14:15-18

The covenant is for us.... although still written to Israel which represents God's people, not Jew or Gentiles, just one in Christ grafted in through faith. Gal 3:26-28 when we don't accept what God placed in our hearts- our hearts are far from Him. . . Mat 15:3-14 It's a amtter of who we yield ourselves to obey.

 

[Dino246]

What about the Law of Christ?

That isn't the "Law" to which I referred. Context makes that abundantly clear.

 

[Cameron143]

Explain? Jer31 & Heb8 speak of the New Covenant with the house of Israel and house of Judah with Jesus Christ in His Priestly role as the Mediator.

Both refer to the new covenant...and spiritual Israel..the Israel of God...Romans 9:7.