There will be no Rapture!!!
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Isn't this passage saying something very similar to that which Rev1:5-6 already said?:
Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Why aren't you seeing the people in v.9 as being the same ones being referred to in v.10?
Why are you thinking suddenly it is now referring to something other than "people" who had existed at some point on the earth?
Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Why aren't you seeing the people in v.9 as being the same ones being referred to in v.10?
Why are you thinking suddenly it is now referring to something other than "people" who had existed at some point on the earth?
Textus Receptus type manuscripts and versions have existed as the majority of texts for almost 2000 years. Erasmus collated many, many Greek New Testament manuscripts, was himself surrounded by several language translations and a multitude of verses from the commentaries and writings of Origen, Cyprian, Ambrose, Basil, Chrysostom, Cyril, Jerome, and Augustine.
So, some have argued that antiquity is the only answer to having the actual word of God, and others rely upon what is the majority of textual copies from all across Europe and other locales.
Blessedly, we are not left with the cacophony and clamorings of men, and therefore having no access to one infallible source, for there IS an infallible Source, as is pointed out by 1 John 2.
MM
So, some have argued that antiquity is the only answer to having the actual word of God, and others rely upon what is the majority of textual copies from all across Europe and other locales.
Blessedly, we are not left with the cacophony and clamorings of men, and therefore having no access to one infallible source, for there IS an infallible Source, as is pointed out by 1 John 2.
MM
Take a look at a post I'd put, back in 2021 (about the specific wording in v.9)... that post contains a short 9-min video (plus I spell out the main point right under the video):
Post #3334 (and a slight "correction" in Post #3335) - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4577199
(and see a couple of follow-up posts: #3379 & #3380)
Would like to hear your thoughts on that. = )
______
from that post:
--"Of the 24 manuscripts available on Revelation 5... 23 of them have verse 9 saying "US" ['hast redeemed US'], whereas the other [1] manuscript leaves it blank/untranslated" (somewhere around the 3:30-min mark);
--within the first few mins of the video, Hocking tells what George Eldon Ladd says, "in his book," about Rev5:9 and what the "24 elders" are saying there, where Hocking quotes from Ladd's book (I assume from Ladd's book, not his commentary): Ladd on verse 9 - "If in fact it is 'us,' then that group is speaking about their own redemption, and must refer to the church"
Post #3334 (and a slight "correction" in Post #3335) - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4577199
(and see a couple of follow-up posts: #3379 & #3380)
Would like to hear your thoughts on that. = )
______
from that post:
--"Of the 24 manuscripts available on Revelation 5... 23 of them have verse 9 saying "US" ['hast redeemed US'], whereas the other [1] manuscript leaves it blank/untranslated" (somewhere around the 3:30-min mark);
--within the first few mins of the video, Hocking tells what George Eldon Ladd says, "in his book," about Rev5:9 and what the "24 elders" are saying there, where Hocking quotes from Ladd's book (I assume from Ladd's book, not his commentary): Ladd on verse 9 - "If in fact it is 'us,' then that group is speaking about their own redemption, and must refer to the church"
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1 John 2 is not "opinion." Each one here follows whatever appeals to his own authority and in appeals to antiquity, but the bottom line is that the Lord knew of all this in advance that there would come up, to this day and beyond, what He knew would require that He provide a means by which we may know the infallible truths that only He can give, and by whatever means He so chooses.
MM
MM
[sorry... reposting to correct the LINK]
As for my Post #3380 I'd mentioned, the Subject THAT post was covering is: Why the number "24"?
-- https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4577413
As for my Post #3380 I'd mentioned, the Subject THAT post was covering is: Why the number "24"?
-- https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4577413
Still a non sequitur comment. That will never approach nor surpass Divine instruction that is promised irrespective of special hoops one must jump through. The written word is good for instruction, correction and rebuke, but in the finer points where there is no agreement for authoritative and infallible trustworthiness, the LORD never leaves us to flounder about blindly. Perhaps you do or do not partake of that promise, but I do. Scholars the world over, both Jews and Gentiles, all have a dog in the fight (so to speak), all clamoring for attention, and we don't need any of it.
MM
MM
Wow! This level of allegory makes the texts so weak that they are then laid wide open to any interpretation anyone could possibly want them to say! This is amazing. The 24 elders allegedly are not talking about themselves in relation to the redemption of the Blood of Christ?
Good grief! What's next? What else will bite the dusts of allegorizing practices?
MM
Good grief! What's next? What else will bite the dusts of allegorizing practices?
MM
As I study the alleged connection between the 24 elders of Revelation and places like Psalm 82, it's recognized on some sites the massive amount of contrived "complexities" and allegorization that must be applied in order to try and make those elders fit into an isolative box in order to distance them from being actual people who had lived on this earth, thus lifting them to such lofty heights so as to keep them from being relatable.
Paul must have seen this kind of nonsense cropping up among those who came after him:
1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.
Not those who came after him through the centuries, but him and those whose company he was a part. Those who followed tried in many ways to transform the clear language of scripture into something that was distant and beyond human grasp of specifics...so much so that one can ask why it was ever inspired to be written at all if it takes these kinds of departures from the clear language to make it into something other than what we can read for ourselves. This is so reminiscent of the Inquisitors. It's like placing the cookies so high on a shelf that you keep the "brats" from getting to them so that they are kept in line.
MM
Paul must have seen this kind of nonsense cropping up among those who came after him:
1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.
Not those who came after him through the centuries, but him and those whose company he was a part. Those who followed tried in many ways to transform the clear language of scripture into something that was distant and beyond human grasp of specifics...so much so that one can ask why it was ever inspired to be written at all if it takes these kinds of departures from the clear language to make it into something other than what we can read for ourselves. This is so reminiscent of the Inquisitors. It's like placing the cookies so high on a shelf that you keep the "brats" from getting to them so that they are kept in line.
MM
[I suggest that the listeners of that video I supplied at LINK listen on a bit further than the 3-min mark 
]
What I believe he was saying in his video was, more like:
the footnotes in many Bibles say,
...most ancient authorities agree that the word [in v.9] is them or they...
[and]
...most early manuscripts omit us in v.9 and read they and them instead of us in v.10.
(in either case, my understanding was that he is referring to the "manuscript evidence"... per the "footnotes" in many Bibles)
Then he gives explanation as to why this "footnote" information (supplied in many Bibles) is not actually factual.
That starts close to the 3-min mark and following.
[as I understand it, he did not make reference to the ECF; I tried looking up the same page of the writings of Chrysostom that I'd referred to just the other day (as you did), and found NOTHING that was written (or presented there) covering the Book of Revelation by him... for example]
]What I believe he was saying in his video was, more like:
the footnotes in many Bibles say,
...most ancient authorities agree that the word [in v.9] is them or they...
[and]
...most early manuscripts omit us in v.9 and read they and them instead of us in v.10.
(in either case, my understanding was that he is referring to the "manuscript evidence"... per the "footnotes" in many Bibles)
Then he gives explanation as to why this "footnote" information (supplied in many Bibles) is not actually factual.
That starts close to the 3-min mark and following.
[as I understand it, he did not make reference to the ECF; I tried looking up the same page of the writings of Chrysostom that I'd referred to just the other day (as you did), and found NOTHING that was written (or presented there) covering the Book of Revelation by him... for example]