Dogs Returning To Their Vomit

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I am still married to her, he can leave me all she wants, it does not mean I have to grant the divorce.

No it is not.. God does not divorce his people.. You were bought by his sons blood. that can not be broken.

Mmm well technically, God DID:

Jeremiah 3:8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.

I know that some people from each tribe in the northern kingdom fled to the southern kingdom during the course of it's existence so that the 10 tribes were never really lost, but on the whole, the northern kingdom of Israel was never brought back unlike the people of the southern kingdom of Judah who returned from Babylon 70 years since their exile.


You also talked about dogs returning to their vomit and pigs returning to wallow in mire in your previous post, that they can't turn into sheep. That's just a figure of speech that describes a person's current state or condition. So it's not about sheep not being able to turn into dogs or pigs, but it's about the current state of a person. They are being like sheep if they are abiding in Christ and not resisting Him. But they are being like dogs or like pigs if they are not.


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[Everlasting-Grace]

No you really didn't.

Eternal life is in Jesus and not separate from Him. If a person leaves Him, that person no longer has eternal life

Thank you. You just proved I have been listening to you. Because this is what I have been arguing against.

If I can lose eternal life. I do not have eternal life. Eternal life is not a religious word. it is a promise of God that one will never perish but they will live forever.

1 John 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Whoever places their faith in Christ has the son. As John said, they were given the right to become children of God. And they are born again, They will never perish, neither shall anyone snatch us out of his hand, in fact. they will never hunger, never thirst, they will live forever. never die, they have eternal life and will be raised on the last day. oh and they will never be lost (john 1, John 3 and John 6)

the word never means never, as the word eternal means eternal.

We can;t change the meaning of words to fit our belief system.

How come you don't site Bible verses to defend your case? You're referring to Matthew 7:21-23 by the way. To me, these are just fake Christians. But there are verses by Jesus Himself that show He thought of apostate people as once Christians.

I have seen you on these threads, I know you know your word. so I thought paraphrasing them would bring them to your remembrance.

Lets look at the testimony of the apostle John

John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3: 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 4: 13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 5: 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

John 6: 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

John 6: 39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

John 6: 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

John 10: 25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Again, How many times in these passage is the word eternal. or never used.

Do we take them or not?


I have to cut this post into two as it is too long..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Bible Verses Where Jesus Acknowledges an Apostate Person was Once Saved

The Seed that Falls on Rocky Places

In the parable of the four soils, Jesus talks about the seed that falls on rocky places:

Matthew 13:20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Mark 4:16 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble.

Luke 8:13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

As you can see in all three gospels, when Jesus tells this parable, Jesus actually sees them as having been formerly saved because these people receive the word with joy and did endure for a while.

Also note that these people fell away due to tribulation, persecution and temptation. The Bible does tell us that there will be a great falling away when the great tribulation starts!

Only one of these 4 groups were saved.. These are 4 examples of how people recieve the gospel. Only one produced fruit. meaning only one was saved.

it does not say anyone was saved and lost salvation.

The Five Virgins Who Didn't Have Oil for Their Lamps

Matthew 25:6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘ No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

The difference between this set of people as compared to the fakers in Matthew 7:21-23, the Greek words used in these verses are different from those used in the former. The Greek phrase here is οὐκ οἶδα ὑμᾶς which means, "I do not know you now." Jesus used to know these people, but due to neglect on their part, He didn't know them anymore. They were saved before because these were virgins dressed up for the wedding feast and were waiting for the bridegroom just like the wise virgins. They got careless though and for whatever reason, they no longer topped up their lamps with oil like the wise virgins did.

But observe what the bridegroom said and did - He said "I don't know you" AND wouldn't open the door! And this is a parable coming from the Lord.

Oil represents the HS. The 5 who did not have oil did not have the HS. they were never saved

The Unfaithful Servant

Luke 12:42 The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

The unfaithful servant is a person who was saved and serving God. But for whatever, because he thinks the Master is taking too long, this person got careless and stopped living the way his Master wanted him to. The Master was of course not pleased when He found his servant in the fallen state that he was in and actually punished him and cast him out among the unbelievers!

You mean to tell me that man, who continued in sin was saved?

He was talking about the pharisees, who were supposed to represent God to the jews.. yet who treated them badly

in that day there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, because many think they are saved yet were never saved.

These are all examples straight from Jesus Himself of people who He viewed as saved but had fallen away. Later on when the other NT books were being written, the NT writers talked about people who fell away and named names.

I think I'll stop here so that the focus will be on Jesus' view of apostates and the fact that He DID view them as having been once saved.


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Please read my passages.. and then interpret your passages and make them agree.

because your passages and my passages taken the way you interpret your passages causes God to be a contradictory God.. and the bible to be a contradiction in itself

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Mmm well technically, God DID:

Jeremiah 3:8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.

I know that some people from each tribe in the northern kingdom fled to the southern kingdom during the course of it's existence so that the 10 tribes were never really lost, but on the whole, the northern kingdom of Israel was never brought back unlike the people of the southern kingdom of Judah who returned from Babylon 70 years since their exile.

He divorced a nation not a person.

You can't use this to denote God kicks his child out of his family.

You also talked about dogs returning to their vomit and pigs returning to wallow in mire in your previous post, that they can't turn into sheep. That's just a figure of speech that describes a person's current state or condition. So it's not about sheep not being able to turn into dogs or pigs, but it's about the current state of a person. They are being like sheep if they are abiding in Christ and not resisting Him. But they are being like dogs or like pigs if they are not.


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I disagree

A dog returns to his vomit because he is a dog.

A pig wallows in mire because he is a pig.

Many people claim to be saved, and play the salvation part quite well..But their true self will always show through.. They will always do what their natural state does..

A dog who was made a new creature is no longer a dog.. Thus he will not return to his vomit. because his vomit is not good. and he KNOWS how bad his vomit is

I know. I have experienced this so many times when I try to return to a sin issue.. It never tastes good.. wheras before I was saved, It always tasted good..(in my view)

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Thank you. You just proved I have been listening to you. Because this is what I have been arguing against.

If I can lose eternal life. I do not have eternal life. Eternal life is not a religious word. it is a promise of God that one will never perish but they will live forever.

Yeah, as long as you remain in Christ. Because eternal life is in Him, it's not a separate feature on its own.

Whoever places their faith in Christ has the son. As John said, they were given the right to become children of God. And they are born again, They will never perish, neither shall anyone snatch us out of his hand, in fact. they will never hunger, never thirst, they will live forever. never die, they have eternal life and will be raised on the last day. oh and they will never be lost (john 1, John 3 and John 6)

the word never means never, as the word eternal means eternal.

We can;t change the meaning of words to fit our belief system.

Yes, all that - as long as we don't leave Him.

I can't emphasize enough that there will be a great falling away in the near future when the great tribulation starts. We can't ignore that and all the other verses that say we can take ourselves out of God's care.

When the antichrist shows up and his false prophet enforces the mark of the beast, Christians who don't believe they can fall away may be tempted to take the mark and do other ungodly things to save their own skins, in effect taking themselves out of the care of God and their salvation.

Christians are called to endure that time to the end, even if it means the loss of all they have: family, friends, property, possessions and even their own lives.

I have seen you on these threads, I know you know your word. so I thought paraphrasing them would bring them to your remembrance.

Lets look at the testimony of the apostle John

John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3: 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 4: 13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 5: 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

John 6: 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

John 6: 39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

John 6: 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

John 10: 25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Again, How many times in these passage is the word eternal. or never used.

Do we take them or not?


I have to cut this post into two as it is too long..

All those verses are true and I agree with them. But a person who is saved still has their free will. We're not forced to stay with God because God wants people to love Him and have a real relationship with Him, not preprogrammed robots.

Here is a list from https://ryanafrench.com/the-myth-of-once-saved-always-saved-debunking-false-doctrines/ that shows what is possible because of that free will:

Children of God Can:

1. “Fall from grace” – Galatians 5:1-4,13
2. “Be led away with error” – 2 Peter 3:17
3. “Err from the truth” – James 5:19-20
4. “Weak brother may perish” – 1 Corinthians 8:11
5. “Fall into condemnation” – James 5:12
6. “Be moved away from the hope” – Colossians 1:21-23
7. “Deny the Lord who bought them” – 2 Peter 2:1
8. “Depart from the living God” – Hebrews 3:12
9. “Can be a castaway” – 1 Corinthians 9:27
10. “Can become accursed children” – 2 Peter 2:14

Fortunately it's easy to stay with God. Just abide in Him and He will build up our godliness, obedience and even faithfulness to Him. Extremely easy to do. Ever wonder why Christians who don't believe in OSAS aren't living in a constant state of panic and fear? It's because we stay abiding in the Lord.

It's those who don't abide in Him that will become weaker and less faithful. Some as you have read in the Bible have even gotten to the point where they don't even follow Him anymore and are completely out of His care. Please, for all of you who read this, don't be one of them. Stay close to God and keep up your fellowship with Him, He is our strength and as long as we remain in Him, we won't fall away.

These posts aren't just for you. They're for all our brothers and sisters in Christ, to learn from them and be encouraged to build up their faith in God so that they can endure to the end. It also pleases God if they embrace the totality of the Bible and not just the parts they like.


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[Everlasting-Grace]

Yeah, as long as you remain in Christ. Because eternal life is in Him, it's not a separate feature on its own.

No.

as I said, then it would not be eternal life, it would be conditional life.

It is a gift of God..

Yes, all that - as long as we don't leave Him.

Show me in any of those passage where it says as long as we do not leave? Where is this condition given in those passages?

I can't emphasize enough that there will be a great falling away in the near future when the great tribulation starts. We can't ignore that and all the other verses that say we can take ourselves out of God's care.

There has already been a great falling away, the churches are dead, or dieing, the things God said would happen are coming true in front of our eyes

When the antichrist shows up and his false prophet enforces the mark of the beast, Christians who don't believe they can fall away may be tempted to take the mark and do other ungodly things to save their own skins, in effect taking themselves out of the care of God and their salvation.

I do not believe a true child would recieve the mark..

Christians are called to endure that time to the end, even if it means the loss of all they have: family, friends, property, possessions and even their own lives.

Yes, and if they do, their PHYSICAL LIVES will be saved.

They are not told to endure or they will lose their childship.

All those verses are true and I agree with them. But a person who is saved still has their free will. We're not forced to stay with God because God wants people to love Him and have a real relationship with Him, not preprogrammed robots.

Who would want to leave God?? Come on sis.. who can you name who has truly understood their state, who became like the tax collector. broken completely having become poor in spirit. and then received this new life. new birth and the spirit. would all of a sudden deny any of it was true and want to go back?

Here is a list from https://ryanafrench.com/the-myth-of-once-saved-always-saved-debunking-false-doctrines/ that shows what is possible because of that free will:

Children of God Can:

1. “Fall from grace” – Galatians 5:1-4,13
2. “Be led away with error” – 2 Peter 3:17
3. “Err from the truth” – James 5:19-20
4. “Weak brother may perish” – 1 Corinthians 8:11
5. “Fall into condemnation” – James 5:12
6. “Be moved away from the hope” – Colossians 1:21-23
7. “Deny the Lord who bought them” – 2 Peter 2:1
8. “Depart from the living God” – Hebrews 3:12
9. “Can be a castaway” – 1 Corinthians 9:27
10. “Can become accursed children” – 2 Peter 2:14

Fortunately it's easy to stay with God. Just abide in Him and He will build up our godliness, obedience and even faithfulness to Him. Extremely easy to do.

Non of those passages say God will kick a person out of his family, Non of them say a true child of God will stop being a child of God. they were purchased by the blood of christ, paid in full.. They can not earn salvation, hence they can not lose it

Ever wonder why Christians who don't believe in OSAS aren't living in a constant state of panic and fear? It's because we stay abiding in the Lord.

Actually, I wonder how you do not live in a constant state of panic and fear. You have no hope except in yourself. You either have to lie to yourself and say you are ok because you are good enough. or do not understand the true state of your situation. which is why I question if they are even saved.. Because I do not see faith in God to save them, I see them trusting their self. and what they do (or do not do) and that is the means of their faith and hope.

to me that is no hope at all.

Jesus said come to me and I will give you rest. how can we be resting if you are continually working day to day to stay saved?

It's those who don't abide in Him that will become weaker and less faithful. Some as you have read in the Bible have even gotten to the point where they don't even follow Him anymore and are completely out of His care. Please, for all of you who read this, don't be one of them. Stay close to God and keep up your fellowship with Him, He is our strength and as long as we remain in Him, we won't fall away.

Yet even in their day of struggle and despair.. They are still Gods child of they were saved,

These posts aren't just for you. They're for all our brothers and sisters in Christ, to learn from them and be encouraged to build up their faith in God so that they can endure to the end. It also pleases God if they embrace the totality of the Bible and not just the parts they like.


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You can't endure to the end.. in the spiritual since. that would require you to be perfect in every way 100% of the time from now until you died.. And that does not include the times you have already sinned since birth.

it sounds like you are fighting calvinism, and that's your motivation. Calvinism is in error. Don;e miss out on Gods truth only because your fighting a doctrine or group you disagree with,.

Open up and Ask God to help you..

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Only one of these 4 groups were saved.. These are 4 examples of how people recieve the gospel. Only one produced fruit. meaning only one was saved.

it does not say anyone was saved and lost salvation.

The Bible doesn't spell a lot of concepts out like "trinity" or "rapture" so why would "salvation" or loss of it be spelled out here? Jesus said that they received the word and enjoyed it for a while - that means they were saved but fell away when tribulation and persecution came. They didn't abide in God to let Him build up their faith to withstand those things.

Oil represents the HS. The 5 who did not have oil did not have the HS. they were never saved

The foolish virgins had lamps so it can be inferred that those lamps used to have oil in them. They were saved. But they got careless and stopped topping their lamps up with oil. So these people were Christians but stopped abiding in Him. The sad part is they still thought they were Christian but Jesus no longer thought so and refused to open the door to them.

You mean to tell me that man, who continued in sin was saved?

Your reading comprehension skills are why you don't understand what the Bible says and ignore the parts you hate. Where does it say that???

If a person continues to sin, that means they're not abiding in Christ. A person who doesn't remain in Christ is no longer saved.

He was talking about the pharisees, who were supposed to represent God to the jews.. yet who treated them badly

in that day there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, because many think they are saved yet were never saved.

It isn't just talking about the pharisees, it's talking about anyone who serves God but then stops living in Him. A Christian can only live a godly life in Christ so if that person stops, they are no longer in Him.

Please read my passages.. and then interpret your passages and make them agree.

because your passages and my passages taken the way you interpret your passages causes God to be a contradictory God.. and the bible to be a contradiction in itself

I have read your passages and they don't contradict the verses that I've posted. All those good things are in Christ and as long as we abide in Him we have all those things. But because God gave us free will and will never take it from us, we still have the ability to walk away if that's what we choose to do.

But please don't panic! Remaining in Christ is very easy to do because as long as we don't leave Him and don't resist His work in us, He will cause us to be faithful to Him too, along with all the other great benefits of being saved.


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[Cameron143]

According to John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Christ. How do you unknow someone?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

He divorced a nation not a person.

You can't use this to denote God kicks his child out of his family.

Yes I can. We all have an individual relationship and responsibility to Him, not just as part of the church. And God doesn't kick someone out of his family. That person left of their own accord just like the prodigal son. It's just that some will not come back. It's happened before as mentioned in the Bible with a major one being predicted for the end times. Why can't you acknowledge that this verse is in the Bible too? It's so bizarre....

I disagree

A dog returns to his vomit because he is a dog.

A pig wallows in mire because he is a pig.

Many people claim to be saved, and play the salvation part quite well..But their true self will always show through.. They will always do what their natural state does..

A dog who was made a new creature is no longer a dog.. Thus he will not return to his vomit. because his vomit is not good. and he KNOWS how bad his vomit is

But you're treating these figures of speech as if cast in stone, as if they are literal creatures. But they're just to describe the current condition of a person. "Sheep" describes people who are willing to follow God and abide in Him. "Dogs" and "pigs" aren't. So if a person abides in Christ, they are being "sheep" but if they leave God and go back to their sins, they are being "dogs" and "pigs". Those terms are just to describe a persons spiritual condition in those various states which are possible.

I know. I have experienced this so many times when I try to return to a sin issue.. It never tastes good.. wheras before I was saved, It always tasted good..(in my view)

It's because you are abiding in Christ who has worked in you to love Him and be faithful to Him!

See you are abiding in Christ right now. See how easy it is? It's practically no work!


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[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

No.

as I said, then it would not be eternal life, it would be conditional life.

It is a gift of God..

But as with all gifts, in order to enjoy its benefits, you do have to take and use it. Let's say your wife bought you a security alarm system. You're happy that she gave it to you but you never installed it and set up the password. You have it but did its benefits work for you? No, because you didn't use it!

It's like that with God's gift. You need to abide in Christ and not resist His work in order for you to get the benefits of growing in godliness and obedience AND faithfulness in Him.

Show me in any of those passage where it says as long as we do not leave? Where is this condition given in those passages?

Luke 9:62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

These verses and others like it in are in the Bible because they warn us they can happen. God is very practical. He's not going to waste putting these in the Bible if they can never happen!

There has already been a great falling away, the churches are dead, or dieing, the things God said would happen are coming true in front of our eyes

I do not believe a true child would recieve the mark..


Yes, and if they do, their PHYSICAL LIVES will be saved.

They are not told to endure or they will lose their childship.

So if you admit that there have been occasions of falling away (saved people leaving God), then why do you believe in OSAS???

A true child is a Christian who consistently abides in God, enduring to the end. The Bible says not all saved people will cling to God for various reasons (the 4 different soils), but all who fall away do so because they've stopped abiding in Christ.

Christians who are not rooted in Christ will take the mark because they will be unwilling to let go of all they have such as family, friends, possessions and property and their lives. Plus they won't have faith that God actually took away the sting of death and would be fearful of dying.

The Bible is also very clear that only those who don't take the mark will be with God.

Who would want to leave God?? Come on sis.. who can you name who has truly understood their state, who became like the tax collector. broken completely having become poor in spirit. and then received this new life. new birth and the spirit. would all of a sudden deny any of it was true and want to go back?

I'll post an article in the next post to answer your questions about the mark. I could explain it myself, but the article is better at it than I am and I don't want to confuse you!

See you in the next!


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[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Here's the article about the mark of the beast! Had to cut some parts out that are more commonly known to fit the 10,000 character limit. Click on the title to read the FULL article!

Don’t Take The Mark Of The Beast​

So what is the mark of the beast? 666

According to Revelation 13:16, the mark of the beast is a marking on the right hand or on the forehead allowing people who receive this mark to either “buy or sell” (“and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.” ~Revelations 13:17).


How will God respond if we do get this mark?

God’s wrath will fall upon those who worship the beast. “A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”(Rev. 14:9-11)


Here is why to avoid the mark

Because if you are a true Christian you were saved by the blood of Christ. You have been adopted into God’s family. It is God who lives in you, who works in you, and who will keep you firm to the end. You are a child of God. It’s not something that you are trying to be it’s who you are now.

You are not a child of the devil. If you are truly a child of God you will not get the mark. You will die for Christ if you have to. The mark of the beast will reveal a true Christian from a false Christian (or a shallow Christian). You will avoid the mark because you love Him, you want to obey Him, you desire God over transient material successes, and you desire to spend all eternity with Him and He with you.

Make no mistake about it. God will punish those who show allegiance to Satan by getting the mark of the beast.


What happens if you refuse to get the mark of the beast?

When I looked over all that is going to take place, God spoke to me. This seems like a test of true desire. What do we truly desire, worldly, materialistic success and acceptance, or God and His promises (eternal promises, at that).

...

I want to tell you, dear reader, to desire God, for the time is near. Want Him. Want His presence. Want for His promises. Want the great love of God. Want Him! He is all that we have.
The expression “take my life, but give me Jesus,” sounds a bit absurd to an outsider. But we must know and experience the fullness that God provides. He gives us unspeakable joy and peace. He allows us to feel His infinite love when we are alone and lonely and He provides when there is no way (Isaiah 43:19).

We should be so secure, so fulfilled, and so happy with Jesus in our lives in a way that when the mark is enforced, strongly (and boldly) reject it. I have a feeling that there will come a time—because we will refuse the mark—when we will lose all material possessions and end up privately worshipping Jesus (because it will surely be a crime in the near future).

During such a time, though, we shouldn’t have to feel as though we are experiencing any sort of loss because we still have Jesus and He is with us until the very end (Matt. 28:20: “and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”).

And we should be at peace at that time—as strange as that may sound—because we know where our real reward is (with God in Heaven!). There is beauty ahead. There is an eternal promise for those who hold on faithfully to the very end (Matt. 24:13: “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”).


Additional Helpers

• If you’re not saved, if you have been playing Christianity, and living in willful sin, then Repent. Repentance is a change of mind that leads to a turning away from sin.
• Put your trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Fully rely upon the blood of Christ on your behalf. When you truly believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and resurrected for your sins, your life will change.
• Ask God to help you desire Him more. Ask Him to show Himself to you in a way that will make you want Him more and more each day. Seek His face constantly! Seek His presence.
• Know that material things (such as cars, popularity, nice homes) are NOT worthy of such desire. Those things can perish and when you set your heart on something that is perishable and nothing else, how will you respond if you do lose them? What will you feel like you have then? That is why it is important to set your energy and joy in God and His will for you. Jesus is here for all eternity (Rev. 22:13) and if your heart is set on Him, you will have all that you would ever need.
• Pray for wisdom, discernment, and strength. We will need a lot of it.

Helpful Verses (these verses provide comfort when afraid and encourage you to set your heart on Christ over anything in this world)

• Psalm 37:4—“Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.”
• Matt. 6:33—”But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”
• John 16:33—“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
• John 14:27—“Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.”
• Psalm 63:1—“O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is.”
• Psalm 73:25—“Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee.”
• Matt 6:19-21—“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
• Mark 8:36—“For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”
• Rev. 20:4—“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”

Love this article!


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[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

You answered me inside some of my quotes. As a result I couldn't automatically reply to them so I had to manually pull them out. Anyway.....

Actually, I wonder how you do not live in a constant state of panic and fear. You have no hope except in yourself. You either have to lie to yourself and say you are ok because you are good enough. or do not understand the true state of your situation. which is why I question if they are even saved.. Because I do not see faith in God to save them, I see them trusting their self. and what they do (or do not do) and that is the means of their faith and hope.

to me that is no hope at all.

Jesus said come to me and I will give you rest. how can we be resting if you are continually working day to day to stay saved?

Non-OSAS Christians are calm and chill because our faith and hope is actually in God who we abide in, not us. As a Christian abides in Christ and doesn't resist His work in us, God does ALL THE WORK of maturing us in godliness and obedience and makes us stronger in faith and trust in Him. It's truly freeing to be in Christ!


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[Pilgrimshope]

It is up to the farmer what he does with his livestock. In your wallet you have money? Who chooses which dollars you save and which you spend? Do you give each dollar a chance to be saved?

Did you declare that your Will is to save them all ? If so then your will isnt to slaughter any

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You answered me inside some of my quotes. As a result I couldn't automatically reply to them so I had to manually pull them out. Anyway.....




Non-OSAS Christians are calm and chill because our faith and hope is actually in God who we abide in, not us. As a Christian abides in Christ and doesn't resist His work in us, God does ALL THE WORK of maturing us in godliness and obedience and makes us stronger in faith and trust in Him. It's truly freeing to be in Christ!


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Never a truer word spoken

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Bible doesn't spell a lot of concepts out like "trinity" or "rapture" so why would "salvation" or loss of it be spelled out here? Jesus said that they received the word and enjoyed it for a while - that means they were saved but fell away when tribulation and persecution came. They didn't abide in God to let Him build up their faith to withstand those things

The word does say that Gods children will produce fruit.

Receiving the word does not mean you acted on the word. .I know many people who received the word gladly.. yet walked away because they never acted on the word. even though they claimed they did.

The foolish virgins had lamps so it can be inferred that those lamps used to have oil in them. They were saved. But they got careless and stopped topping their lamps up with oil. So these people were Christians but stopped abiding in Him. The sad part is they still thought they were Christian but Jesus no longer thought so and refused to open the door to them.

This is conjecture, it does not prove you are right..

Your reading comprehension skills are why you don't understand what the Bible says and ignore the parts you hate. Where does it say that???

So now you are going to attack me again..

If a person continues to sin, that means they're not abiding in Christ. A person who doesn't remain in Christ is no longer saved.

John said a person who sins has never seen or known Christ. a person who is born again does not continue in sin.

Again, we need to take the whole word. Not just one passage that we think agrees with us..

1 John 2: 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3: 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

It isn't just talking about the pharisees, it's talking about anyone who serves God but then stops living in Him. A Christian can only live a godly life in Christ so if that person stops, they are no longer in Him.

Sorry, But I know many people who do not believe in God who are morally upright in their living.

I have read your passages and they don't contradict the verses that I've posted. All those good things are in Christ and as long as we abide in Him we have all those things. But because God gave us free will and will never take it from us, we still have the ability to walk away if that's what we choose to do.

And if I interpret your passages as you do. they most certainly do contradict each other..

Jesus said you will never die. You say they can still die.

Those two statements are contradictory..

But please don't panic! Remaining in Christ is very easy to do because as long as we don't leave Him and don't resist His work in us, He will cause us to be faithful to Him too, along with all the other great benefits of being saved.


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Panic? I have no need to panic. You should be the one panicking.

I know I have eternal life. as John said, and my continuing in him is based on this knowledge

I enter his rest and stopped trying to work to earn my salvation over 40 years ago. My faith is in Gods promise. Not in how I do. Anything I put self in the motivation, I fail.. Satan wants to take my security away. I won;t let him.. I pray you stop letting him try to take yours away.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes I can. We all have an individual relationship and responsibility to Him, not just as part of the church. And God doesn't kick someone out of his family. That person left of their own accord just like the prodigal son. It's just that some will not come back. It's happened before as mentioned in the Bible with a major one being predicted for the end times. Why can't you acknowledge that this verse is in the Bible too? It's so bizarre....

The prodigal son never stopped being the son. He just lost his fathers provisions and had to earn for himself.. He left the rest..

But you're treating these figures of speech as if cast in stone, as if they are literal creatures. But they're just to describe the current condition of a person. "Sheep" describes people who are willing to follow God and abide in Him. "Dogs" and "pigs" aren't. So if a person abides in Christ, they are being "sheep" but if they leave God and go back to their sins, they are being "dogs" and "pigs". Those terms are just to describe a persons spiritual condition in those various states which are possible.

They are literal creatures.

Jesus said if you believe (when you believe or when you look, when you eat when you come etc etc) you will never die. and you will live forever.

Those are literal things.

You don;t tell someone if they come to you they will never die. then the persons ends up dying

number one, you lied to him, you deceived him into coming to you with a promise you could not keep, and you did not keep your word.

Is this God?

It's because you are abiding in Christ who has worked in you to love Him and be faithful to Him!

No, I am faithful to him because he has proved himself trustworthy, and he has not given me any reason to doubt him. and because of gratitude for what he gave me.

its not about me, its about him.

thats why legalism is so dangerous, it takes focus off God and puts it on self.

See you are abiding in Christ right now. See how easy it is? It's practically no work!


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I will not go to heaven because I am abiding in Christ now

I will go to heaven because he died on the cross. and I trusted him to save my soul, because like the tax collector. I became poor in spirit and got on my knees and cried out to him.[/quote]

 

[icequeen]

Like the dog returning to his vomit, I return to CC... Let's see if the vomit still tastes as yesterday's dinner.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But as with all gifts, in order to enjoy its benefits, you do have to take and use it. Let's say your wife bought you a security alarm system. You're happy that she gave it to you but you never installed it and set up the password. You have it but did its benefits work for you? No, because you didn't use it!

It's like that with God's gift. You need to abide in Christ and not resist His work in order for you to get the benefits of growing in godliness and obedience AND faithfulness in Him.

This gift is different.

1. I needed saved, he saved me
2. I was dead, he made me alive
3. I was lost, he found me
4. I was condemned and under his wrath, He condemned me and removed me from his wrath
5. not only this, he gave me his spirit as a pledge until he resurrects me..

Nothing can change these things.. He does nto undo them, and I have no power to undo them

Your trying to mix our justification or our positional perfection from our ongoing sanctification.

heb 10: 14 for By one offering he perfected forever. those who are being sanctified.

Unless the first happens., there sill be no send part..

And there is that pesky word forever again....

Like Paul. I am confident of this one thing, He who began a good work in me WILL CONTINUE until the day of Christ.

If I fail. God failed..

Its not on me, its on God.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Luke 9:62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

These verses and others like it in are in the Bible because they warn us they can happen. God is very practical. He's not going to waste putting these in the Bible if they can never happen!

What they warn us (and them) is that we need to make sure we finish what we started.

People go back to their true self. A jew who truly had faith in the law. will play christian for a time, But their faith is in the law. they go back

A person who truly loves their sin (vomit) may play christian for awhile. But they will go back to who they really are.. A lover of their sin.. Thats why John said they are of their father the devil. Because they continue in sin. A child of God can not do this.

So if you admit that there have been occasions of falling away (saved people leaving God), then why do you believe in OSAS???

I never said these people were saved. I believe in OSAS because I believe my security lies in God, his reputation, his promise and his death, Not in myself.

A true child is a Christian who consistently abides in God, enduring to the end.

No one will reach this status.. All have sinned and fall short, you and I both still sin and fall short. We have not nor will we ever meet Gods standard.. so in effect. apart from Grace, we will always deserve damnation.

The Bible says not all saved people will cling to God for various reasons (the 4 different soils), but all who fall away do so because they've stopped abiding in Christ.

Once again, Only one of the 4 were truly saved, proved by the fact only one produced fruit..

Christians who are not rooted in Christ will take the mark because they will be unwilling to let go of all they have such as family, friends, possessions and property and their lives. Plus they won't have faith that God actually took away the sting of death and would be fearful of dying.

The Bible is also very clear that only those who don't take the mark will be with God.

There is no such thing as a christian not rooted in Christ.. they are what we call make believers. not true believers.

I'll post an article in the next post to answer your questions about the mark. I could explain it myself, but the article is better at it than I am and I don't want to confuse you!

See you in the next!


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Confuse me with what? That God is a liar who can not keep his word?

Sorry, You will never confuse me that God does not keep his word. When he makes a promise, he keeps it..[/quote][/quote]

 

[Cameron143]

Did you declare that your Will is to save them all ? If so then your will isnt to slaughter any

One of the reasons I answered as I did in an earlier post was to answer this question. What is the "will" of God? Is it an expressed desire or is it His actual will?
The WILL of God always comes to pass...Daniel 4:35. So if God's desire that all be saved and His unwillingness that any should perish represent His will, then everyone would get saved. Since we know that is not the case, then we know those verses are speaking about God's preference and propensity towards man.