Dogs Returning To Their Vomit

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Yes. Like the guys that were cleaned of demons yet weren't filled with the Holy Spirit, and then tons more demons inhabited them BECAUSE they were clean, but empty.

An empty vessel is hardly better than a dirty one.

We not only have to be cleaned, BUT also filled, and sealed, with the Holy Spirit.

That's becoming a born again child of God. Or sheep if you will.

Remember a DOG and PIG go back to it's vomit. Not a dog that became a sheep and then became a dog or pig again.

We shall have to agree to disagree on this one PennEd.. I can only interpret Clean escaped and by the knowledge of the LORD Jesus to mean that person was indeed saved.. But later turned away from the truth that saved and like the expression says.. They returned to the worldly vomit like a dog..

 

[Cameron143]

Plucking out implies a third party doing it... Like satan plucking you out.. The scriptures are stating no one else can pluck you out..

No one is no one. But that only answers the first question. How about the second? What can separate a Christian from the love of God in Christ Jesus?
And since salvation is a spiritual transaction, how does a person undo a circumcised heart?

 

[selahsays]

We shall have to agree to disagree on this one PennEd.. I can only interpret Clean escaped and by the knowledge of the LORD Jesus to mean that person was indeed saved.. But later turned away from the truth that saved and like the expression says.. They returned to the worldly vomit like a dog..

I’m trying to understand. So is it possible that the Elect will be deceived?

 

[selahsays]

"And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. "Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. "And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. "See, I have told you beforehand. "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

- Matthew 24:10-26

 

[mailmandan]

I’m trying to understand. So is it possible that the Elect will be deceived?

"And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. "Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. "And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. "See, I have told you beforehand. "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

- Matthew 24:10-26

Matthew 24:24 - if possible (ε δυνατον), lead astray the very elect. The implication is that it is not possible.

Matthew 24 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

 

[selahsays]

Matthew 24:24 - if possible (ε δυνατον), lead astray the very elect. The implication is that it is not possible.

Matthew 24 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Yes, I’ve always be that, too.

 

[mailmandan]

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome.

*Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature." Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example of someone who rejected the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ yet was never saved. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)

 

[selahsays]

Matthew 24:24 - if possible (ε δυνατον), lead astray the very elect. The implication is that it is not possible.

Matthew 24 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

I’m troubled a bit. .So if the great apostasy is the falling away of Christians where, in essence, they turn away from God, who are these Christians?

 

[mailmandan]

I’m troubled a bit. .So if the great apostasy is the falling away of Christians where, in essence, they turn away from God, who are these Christians?

They are "nominal" (in name only) Christians.

 

[selahsays]

They are "nominal" (in name only) Christians.

…but then why is it called “the great apostasy“?

 

[selahsays]

…but then why is it called “the great apostasy“?

Or maybe the great apostasy means something different than what I’ve always believed it to be? Maybe the great apostasy is the Antichrist pretending to be Christ. ?

 

[selahsays]

Yes, I’ve always be that, too.

“believed” it should read.

 

[PennEd]

I’m troubled a bit. .So if the great apostasy is the falling away of Christians where, in essence, they turn away from God, who are these Christians?

All those "Churches" that now accept homosexual behavior as anything LESS than a sin, and in fact say that God is just fine with them Pastoring, marrying, and getting married to other homosexuals, is a perfect example of those that CLAIM to be saved Christians yet are not.

It is not the struggle with sin that differentiates between the saved, born again Christian, with the unsaved proclaiming "Christian".

It is the open acceptance and redefining of sin that differentiates us.

They know the truth, they reject the truth, and exemplify the great falling away.

 

[Jimbone]

No one is no one. But that only answers the first question. How about the second? What can separate a Christian from the love of God in Christ Jesus?
And since salvation is a spiritual transaction, how does a person undo a circumcised heart?

The biggest problem I run into in this particular conversation seems to be the automatic assumption that when we say you can't lose your salvation is the people take that to mean we are saying, "I'm saved no matter what and can now sin as much as I want with no worries". This completely ignores EVERYTHING being saved actually does inside the believer. It's as if the people making these arguments take no consideration of what the power or God actually does in our hearts when we are truly saved. To me this is the very heart of the problem, elevating our choice or "free will" as it's called, above Gods power. When we are saved our spirit is resurrected and reconciled with His Holy Spirit. This opens our eyes to the truth and makes us completely NEW people. This can't be "undone" any more than I can be "unborn". The Bible clearly tells us over and over that He keeps us by His power, He saves us by His power, He gives these things as gifts and grace, it doesn't have very much to do with what we think, feel, or say at all. In my experience and understanding of His word, however this understanding has been growing and changing since the day He saved me 9-29-13.

I too couldn't understand how I freely choose to "accept Christ into my heart" by my free will, yet now I'm saved I can't freely choose to reject Him now, if I wanted to? That made no sense to me at all, plus all the scripture that says clearly that we can lose salvation. I for sure thought we could lose the gift we choose in the first place. I'd always qualify that with "I don't know how anyone could" or "I never would", but felt we could lose salvation hypothetically. I had a smaller view of Gods power and a way larger view of "my choice" than reality reflects. We don't like it Gods in control of EVERYTHING, we just don't like it. On here all the time I hear in this debate off the jump it's "so God chooses who goes to hell from birth." "I'd never worship a God like that". Yet His word does say that, yet also tells us we do have choice, we do have a will. The thing is our will is enslaved to our nature, either that's in sin/Adam, or in Righteousness/Jesus. God is sovereign.

How does the sovereignty of God work with/through us and our choices to bring about His will, I don't know. To me that's where we stop being able to "get" it at all. Shoot half the stuff we think we "get" we are most likely off on at least a little bit. Just in my walk with Him this last 10 years has deepen/expanded/changed may lings and ways I see our Lord. I do not believe I can lose my salvation because of Him not me, and seeing the true price paid for this salvation, how much I deserve the complete opposite, and how this is nothing I could have ever even known about without His grace and power, I do NOT believe it's a license to sin my heart away, I see it as a undeserved blessing I want to live my life to glorify Him for. But that's just how I see it.

 

[Cameron143]

The biggest problem I run into in this particular conversation seems to be the automatic assumption that when we say you can't lose your salvation is the people take that to mean we are saying, "I'm saved no matter what and can now sin as much as I want with no worries". This completely ignores EVERYTHING being saved actually does inside the believer. It's as if the people making these arguments take no consideration of what the power or God actually does in our hearts when we are truly saved. To me this is the very heart of the problem, elevating our choice or "free will" as it's called, above Gods power. When we are saved our spirit is resurrected and reconciled with His Holy Spirit. This opens our eyes to the truth and makes us completely NEW people. This can't be "undone" any more than I can be "unborn". The Bible clearly tells us over and over that He keeps us by His power, He saves us by His power, He gives these things as gifts and grace, it doesn't have very much to do with what we think, feel, or say at all. In my experience and understanding of His word, however this understanding has been growing and changing since the day He saved me 9-29-13.

I too couldn't understand how I freely choose to "accept Christ into my heart" by my free will, yet now I'm saved I can't freely choose to reject Him now, if I wanted to? That made no sense to me at all, plus all the scripture that says clearly that we can lose salvation. I for sure thought we could lose the gift we choose in the first place. I'd always qualify that with "I don't know how anyone could" or "I never would", but felt we could lose salvation hypothetically. I had a smaller view of Gods power and a way larger view of "my choice" than reality reflects. We don't like it Gods in control of EVERYTHING, we just don't like it. On here all the time I hear in this debate off the jump it's "so God chooses who goes to hell from birth." "I'd never worship a God like that". Yet His word does say that, yet also tells us we do have choice, we do have a will. The thing is our will is enslaved to our nature, either that's in sin/Adam, or in Righteousness/Jesus. God is sovereign.

How does the sovereignty of God work with/through us and our choices to bring about His will, I don't know. To me that's where we stop being able to "get" it at all. Shoot half the stuff we think we "get" we are most likely off on at least a little bit. Just in my walk with Him this last 10 years has deepen/expanded/changed may lings and ways I see our Lord. I do not believe I can lose my salvation because of Him not me, and seeing the true price paid for this salvation, how much I deserve the complete opposite, and how this is nothing I could have ever even known about without His grace and power, I do NOT believe it's a license to sin my heart away, I see it as a undeserved blessing I want to live my life to glorify Him for. But that's just how I see it.

This is very well stated and, no doubt, this understanding has been the source of great thanksgiviand worship for you. It is for me.

 

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I’m trying to understand. So is it possible that the Elect will be deceived?

The Elect are the Elect because God foreknows that they will both believe Jesus and trust in His atonement and persist in the faith unto their deaths..

A person can believe for a time but that does not make them part of the Elect.. Only those who keep the faith till their deaths ( Or rapture what ever comes first ) are the Elect of God..

The parable of the sower of the seeds Matthew Chapter 13.. is a good description of different types of people some who persist in the Faith for a short time and then fall away because of varied reasons.. But one group persists in belief and they bare much fruit / increase .. they are the Elect..

 

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Or maybe the great apostasy means something different than what I’ve always believed it to be? Maybe the great apostasy is the Antichrist pretending to be Christ. ?

I believe that will be the main deception in the end times just before the return of Jesus.. The anti-christ will claim to be God on earth.. That is revealed in the book of Revelation.. Now who would the anti-christ masquerade as to pull off this great deception? Well The LORD Jesus of course..

 

[selahsays]

The Elect are the Elect because God foreknows that they will both believe Jesus and trust in His atonement and persist in the faith unto their deaths..

A person can believe for a time but that does not make them part of the Elect.. Only those who keep the faith till their deaths ( Or rapture what ever comes first ) are the Elect of God..

The parable of the sower of the seeds Matthew Chapter 13.. is a good description of different types of people some who persist in the Faith for a short time and then fall away because of varied reasons.. But one group persists in belief and they bare much fruit / increase .. they are the Elect..

Yes. I agree with both you and @mailmandan Thanks, brothers.

 

[selahsays]

I believe that will be the main deception in the end times just before the return of Jesus.. The anti-christ will claim to be God on earth.. That is revealed in the book of Revelation.. Now who would the anti-christ masquerade as to pull off this great deception? Well The LORD Jesus of course..

Yes indeed, that ol’ faker.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

You're using a few religous jargon terms here "" Circuncision of Christ"" and ""Curse of the Lord"" It's best to try and speak using plain speech sometimes because often religious jargon means one thing to one person and means something different to another person.

Christian jargon comes from the KJV?
Colossians 2:11 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ . . ."

Proverbs 3:33 KJV - "The curse of the LORD [is] in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just."

What do you say now?