Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

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cv5 said:
Whatever you problems with eschatology might be.....

They aren't mine. Thankfully.
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You're simply making an open claim that I may have a problem with eschatology. It's actually an example of fallacious argumentation.

Quite some time ago I just faced the reality that one can sit in a tribe and think its interpretational views are irrefutable. There's comfort in this for many - comfort that they can be thankful for.

Then, some will venture out and give an open ear to different interpretation(s) and realize there are some seemingly very valid points made by others we've been told were all wrong. Our various groups are quite good at saying all others are wrong and drawing battle lines between one another. IMO eschatology is one of the prime examples of this. But it's similar for many of the major doctrines of the Faith.

When you say something is irrefutable, are you truly trained sufficiently - whether by others or solely by the Spirit - to make such a statement? Do you know all the different eschatological interpretations and consider yourself capable of actually proving others wrong? Being a reader over decades of several published studies including books and articles, both general and exegetical, do you think I'd recognize or find your name as an author of one or more of them? Should I place you on the list of exegetes I watch for?
 
studier said:
You're simply making an open claim that I may have a problem with eschatology. It's actually an example of fallacious argumentation.

Quite some time ago I just faced the reality that one can sit in a tribe and think its interpretational views are irrefutable. There's comfort in this for many - comfort that they can be thankful for.

Then, some will venture out and give an open ear to different interpretation(s) and realize there are some seemingly very valid points made by others we've been told were all wrong. Our various groups are quite good at saying all others are wrong and drawing battle lines between one another. IMO eschatology is one of the prime examples of this. But it's similar for many of the major doctrines of the Faith.

When you say something is irrefutable, are you truly trained sufficiently - whether by others or solely by the Spirit - to make such a statement? Do you know all the different eschatological interpretations and consider yourself capable of actually proving others wrong? Being a reader over decades of several published studies including books and articles, both general and exegetical, do you think I'd recognize or find your name as an author of one or more of them? Should I place you on the list of exegetes I watch for?
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Oh it gets better. Wait for the big words and insults. Better to just move on.
 
studier said:
You're simply making an open claim that I may have a problem with eschatology. It's actually an example of fallacious argumentation.

Quite some time ago I just faced the reality that one can sit in a tribe and think its interpretational views are irrefutable. There's comfort in this for many - comfort that they can be thankful for.

Then, some will venture out and give an open ear to different interpretation(s) and realize there are some seemingly very valid points made by others we've been told were all wrong. Our various groups are quite good at saying all others are wrong and drawing battle lines between one another. IMO eschatology is one of the prime examples of this. But it's similar for many of the major doctrines of the Faith.

When you say something is irrefutable, are you truly trained sufficiently - whether by others or solely by the Spirit - to make such a statement? Do you know all the different eschatological interpretations and consider yourself capable of actually proving others wrong? Being a reader over decades of several published studies including books and articles, both general and exegetical, do you think I'd recognize or find your name as an author of one or more of them? Should I place you on the list of exegetes I watch for?
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You are wasting your breath kid. And to answer your questions:
Yes
Yes
and yes.
 
weird turn this thread has taken

I can add some anecdotal evidence. I started my blog in 2020 (I know it says 2021 but I actually started it a year earlier on a different site). I made it public in case anyone else was interested but didn't expect more than about ten people. I made a title designed to repel many of the people who want their ears tickled (Summary of Bible references on the Rapture}. No advertising, no gimmicks, and I didn't make any videos. Nothing to attract anyone.

Well, at this point there are 333,000 who have read it and the numbers increase by about 1,000 a day. To me that is a gauge at how the world has changed in the last four years.

So despite the "christians" saying "nothing to see here" it seems obvious that many, many people on this planet are ignoring that and realize something is up.
 
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cv5 said:
You are wasting your breath kid. And to answer your questions:
Yes
Yes
and yes.
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Then it seems we should all be reading your work, especially since you think some of the things you point to are irrefutable. Message me and link me to your work - books, articles, sites. Maybe you already have. Please make certain it includes a list of references of the works you've read so I can look for things we've both read. I'll maintain your apparently desired forum anonymity.

As I've in essence said, wasting breath on eschatology battles is an issue some of us well recognize. I budget a limited amount of breath expenditure for it. It normally ends up with others who will not follow through with my above request of you.
 
ZNP said:
I can add some anecdotal evidence
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Anecdotal evidence for what? Are you unfamiliar with the market success of the Left Behind series and other such works? Unlike Elon and EV's there's a continuing and large market for your product. It's not new or unique. Only the news of the day to draw from changes, as it will until it doesn't, whenever that is.
 
studier said:
Then it seems we should all be reading your work, especially since you think some of the things you point to are irrefutable. Message me and link me to your work - books, articles, sites. Maybe you already have. Please make certain it includes a list of references of the works you've read so I can look for things we've both read. I'll maintain your apparently desired forum anonymity.

As I've in essence said, wasting breath on eschatology battles is an issue some of us well recognize. I budget a limited amount of breath expenditure for it. It normally ends up with others who will not follow through with my above request of you.
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I could care less if you or anyone reads my work or not.

And to postulate that Pauls eschatological views are somehow vague, errant or non-specific is preposterous.

BTW.....there is only ONE correct eschatological view. One. One only. The hapless so-called scholars at the seminaries think that anything goes.....any view is as good as another. Tragic really.
 
studier said:
Left Behind series
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Yup. Bringing that up speaks volumes. Frankly, no serious Bible student gives hoot about that series, nor do they use it as a reference of any kind for any purpose.
 
studier said:
For what it may or may not be worth to you, the site you linked above also links to Michael Heiser. He came to a similar view of eschatology discussions that I did over time. I heard him many years after I came to this similar view.
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Jesus God (the I AM) issues many solemn warnings to watch for the time of the end, the DOTL, be prepared, be vigilant, be ready.........

and Heiser says fuggetaboutit. Who really knows he says. Who really cares he says. This is all a drill. The end will never come.

Who are you going to believe man?
 
studier said:
Anecdotal evidence for what?
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Anecdotal evidence that the interest around the rapture has heated up significantly in just the last four years.

Has that happened before? Yes. Is that a reason to dismiss this? On the contrary, I understand one purpose of the false prophets is to give numerous false alarms to cause people to drop their guard. Crooks do this all the time. Satan is a thief, he comes in the night, and it makes sense to do this.

I find your using this "people have said this before" as falling for the deception. False prophets may be a reason to be prudent but not to ignore what is going on.
 
cv5 said:
Jesus God (the I AM) issues many solemn warnings to watch for the time of the end, the DOTL, be prepared, be vigilant, be ready.........

and Heiser says fuggetaboutit. Who really knows he says. Who really cares he says. This is all a drill. The end will never come.

Who are you going to believe man?
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Yep, that is why I am watching, the Lord Jesus Christ told us to watch.
 
cv5 said:
I could care less if you or anyone reads my work or not.

And to postulate that Pauls eschatological views are somehow vague, errant or non-specific is preposterous.

BTW.....there is only ONE correct eschatological view. One. One only. The hapless so-called scholars at the seminaries think that anything goes.....any view is as good as another. Tragic really.
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So goes these types of discussions - "I could care less..." in answer to requests for information and substantiation of claims.

Also typically included are vague attacks against the "so-called scholars" and "seminaries".

Then there's the misrepresentation of what they think - "that anything goes.....any view is as good as another." Assuming you actually have read all you say you have, you'd know that eschatology scholars frequently make your rhetoric against alternate views seem like child's play. The intensity of battles and personal attacks is one of the reason some of us have determined to deal with the topic on a more limited basis than other areas of Theology. We have learned for one thing how much emotion is involved for whatever reasons.
 
cv5 said:
Totally disagree with Heiser's view of eschatology. Totally clueless. He simple does not "get it".
Too bad really. But not my problem thankfully.
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It's really more a view about those who focus on and make [omniscient-like] assertions about eschatology than it is about eschatology itself. Yes, he expressed he thought some things are still obscure. He's not alone.

Once again, your comfort in your ability to assert irrefutability is noted and that others who are of different interpretations are totally clueless. It's simply another example of what Heiser spoke of and of what I've been saying about the debaters. It's not really the debate that's the issue. It's more the debaters.
 
The Sign of Jonah

I have been struggling with this sign because Jonah preached to the Ninevites and they repented and the judgement was stayed for a significant amount of time. But then Jesus told the Jews that the only sign they would get would be the sign of Jonah and sure enough Jesus resurrected from the grave after three days like Jonah coming out of the fish according to the stories the Ninevites had heard. It took him a half day journey to get to Nineveh and then he started preaching just like about halfway through the year after the resurrection you have Pentecost (Christianity's date is wrong IMO, it should be the 8th of Av) and the disciples begin preaching to repent and 40 years later on the 9th of Av the Temple is cast down and the Jews scattered. I think it is clear that this Alpha and Omega sign over the US refers to the sign of Jonah and a very clear warning and I even think the April 8th was a 40 day warning. So then, does that mean judgement is coming after 40 days or does it mean people will repent and the judgement be stayed?

Then it hit me:

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

You have two groups: those that know the Lord's will and those that don't.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Both Nineveh and Jerusalem were examples of the sign of Jonah. Some know the Lord's will and don't do it, like those in Jerusalem, they were beaten with many stripes. Others didn't know but did things worthy of stripes, they were beaten with few. There are two sides to the sign of Jonah just as there are two sides to the rapture. There will be those who know the Lord told them to watch but don't do it, and there will be others who were also part of this evil and adulterous age, but they didn't know the Lord's will. When they find out that these Christians didn't tell them and didn't warn them they will turn their wrath on them.

So yes, April 8th was a 40 day warning. If you know the Lord's will you had better be about the Father's business and doing it. Obviously not everyone on earth knows God's will so for them this will be like a shot across the bow to wake them up and cause them to seek out the truth in the Bible.
 
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