The Law Poses Two Questions...

[Cameron143]

Brother Jesus and all of his apostles were born while the law of Moses was still the covenant being fulfilled . This is when he began preaching the New Testament that applies to all people believers and also non believers

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the new testement the gospel of the kingdom Jesus was promised in the Old Testament that he would come and speak Gods true words of requirement for every soul of man whoever accepted him would be saved whoever rejected him would be damned

Before jesus died he was only preaching the gospel to israel before th y rejected and killed him

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then he began saying this

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After he shed his blood to remit sin under the Old Testament

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬

the same gospel is preached foret to jew then to gentile there’s absolutely no difference . The o my difference is the old covenant law ended with Christs bloodshed and his words became the eternal testament

are we carefully what’s being said here regarding two testaments and who the mediator of each is

“And for this cause he ( jesus ) is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
( Jesus spoke the gospel then shed his blood ( his life ) and it went into effect )


Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:15-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That’s exactly what Jesus did he oresched the gospel bout three years in Israel then he shed the blood of the covenant he’d given them

“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:24‬ ‭

after jesus had preached the gospel to them he sent them out to everyone with the same message

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s never going to be another way another covenant word another sacrifice for anyone on earth we have to be saved the same way Peter and then we’re being a Jew or gentile doesn’t mean anything anymore

No problem with any of this. But Jesus came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It wasn't until after His resurrection that the gospel goes to the Gentiles. So not everything He said has application to us. You avoided answering the question because you realize this is true. There was even a council of the Apostles in Acts to give clarity on some issues.
Now if you look closely at the teachings of Jesus, He does preach the gospel of the kingdom. But His teachings deal mostly with the nature of the kingdom of God. In other words, He tells us what it looks like and He models it for us. But He never tells us how to appropriate it for ourselves. The epistles do this for us. They explain further the teachings of Jesus, and teach us how to live out the Christian life. This is why I shared earlier how the epistles are written. The first part of the epistles are largely doctrinal, and the latter half teaches how the doctrines are to work theirselves out in practice in our lives. You will find the doctrinal part in Jesus' teachings, but little of its application.
This makes sense because the new covenant was yet to come and was not applicable yet, and it would not fully be in place for another 40 years. So while everything Jesus said and did was perfect, it cannot be fully understood without the epistles or direct understanding from Jesus Himself. The epistles are that direct understanding given to the writers of the epistles by Jesus Himself.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

They taught how to live in the new covenant. Just one question, if Jesus came back today, would He tell us to do as the Pharisees say? Why or why not?
I never said I exclude the words of Jesus.

“They taught how to live in the new covenant. “

Try reading some of Jesus sermons then read the apostles witness of the gospel he preached and taught them

No problem with any of this. But Jesus came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It wasn't until after His resurrection that the gospel goes to the Gentiles. So not everything He said has application to us. You avoided answering the question because you realize this is true. There was even a council of the Apostles in Acts to give clarity on some issues.
Now if you look closely at the teachings of Jesus, He does preach the gospel of the kingdom. But His teachings deal mostly with the nature of the kingdom of God. In other words, He tells us what it looks like and He models it for us. But He never tells us how to appropriate it for ourselves. The epistles do this for us. They explain further the teachings of Jesus, and teach us how to live out the Christian life. This is why I shared earlier how the epistles are written. The first part of the epistles are largely doctrinal, and the latter half teaches how the doctrines are to work theirselves out in practice in our lives. You will find the doctrinal part in Jesus' teachings, but little of its application.
This makes sense because the new covenant was yet to come and was not applicable yet, and it would not fully be in place for another 40 years. So while everything Jesus said and did was perfect, it cannot be fully understood without the epistles or direct understanding from Jesus Himself. The epistles are that direct understanding given to the writers of the epistles by Jesus Himself.

“lost sheep of the house of Israel. It wasn't until after His resurrection that the gospel goes to the Gentiles. So not everything He said has application to us. “

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[homwardbound]

This is what he wrote to them

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think we might be on the same page, in Belief to God Father, Son Jesus is risen where new life is given freely, hoping so

Unbelief is what these have chosen, keeps people in sin. Unbelief to even trying to do Law and cannot do it perfectly. Paul saw this and wrote of it in Phil 3 about the fight of flesh nature and the Spirit of God at hand. Jesus took care of all the nasty nines and dirty dozens. Everything but "Unbelief" to God Father of Son as the risen Son to walk new in and through us the born new believers, learning truth of God's completed love and mercy for us in Son for us, at least me, not of the self at all anymore, which I have been learning since day one I decided to believe God personally, Eph 1:13, 6, 7
Hardness and impenitent hearts are: "Unbelief to God as Son Jesus is risen for them too, to be led new in as born again from God Father of risen Son. Those that are born again by God, quit sin eventually, and only stand in the present second daily. Providing, one does not give up wanting to know, see and be new in God for them, God will eventually reveal to each person according too each persons motive. There are many in belief on their way to the completed by God as the new person they are made to be as God does it, did for them by Son to them. It is done by God in Son for us at that cross fro anyone e to believe God and be new without any more worries over it. Without having to do to get. This is given by God Father of risen Son the moment one seriously does give up on the self to doing anything, since God has done it for them

 

[homwardbound]

what I’m asking you is what do you do with what it plainly says and can’t really be avoided ?

“God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: “

Seek out truth, that only Father of risen Son can reveal to anyone that does not give up in belief to God will see truth and stop the works of flesh of themselves as Paul did and revealed in Phil 3, might want to read that entire Chapter again, slowly and trust God to reveal to you personally the truth told there, thank you

Tell me this, what got rendered to Adam the first? What is rendered to Adam the second?
Which do you stand in

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No problem with any of this. But Jesus came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It wasn't until after His resurrection that the gospel goes to the Gentiles. So not everything He said has application to us. You avoided answering the question because you realize this is true. There was even a council of the Apostles in Acts to give clarity on some issues.
Now if you look closely at the teachings of Jesus, He does preach the gospel of the kingdom. But His teachings deal mostly with the nature of the kingdom of God. In other words, He tells us what it looks like and He models it for us. But He never tells us how to appropriate it for ourselves. The epistles do this for us. They explain further the teachings of Jesus, and teach us how to live out the Christian life. This is why I shared earlier how the epistles are written. The first part of the epistles are largely doctrinal, and the latter half teaches how the doctrines are to work theirselves out in practice in our lives. You will find the doctrinal part in Jesus' teachings, but little of its application.
This makes sense because the new covenant was yet to come and was not applicable yet, and it would not fully be in place for another 40 years. So while everything Jesus said and did was perfect, it cannot be fully understood without the epistles or direct understanding from Jesus Himself. The epistles are that direct understanding given to the writers of the epistles by Jesus Himself.

“You avoided answering the question because you realize this is true.”

i did answer your question your asking about the people born under the mosaic law circumcised the tribes of Israel they were all born beholden to the law that’s why Jesus told them that . Because israel was still under Moses law they had to keep following the priests guidance they held Moses seat of judgement

“saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;

but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think we might be on the same page, in Belief to God Father, Son Jesus is risen where new life is given freely, hoping so

Unbelief is what these have chosen, keeps people in sin. Unbelief to even trying to do Law and cannot do it perfectly. Paul saw this and wrote of it in Phil 3 about the fight of flesh nature and the Spirit of God at hand. Jesus took care of all the nasty nines and dirty dozens. Everything but "Unbelief" to God Father of Son as the risen Son to walk new in and through us the born new believers, learning truth of God's completed love and mercy for us in Son for us, at least me, not of the self at all anymore, which I have been learning since day one I decided to believe God personally, Eph 1:13, 6, 7
Hardness and impenitent hearts are: "Unbelief to God as Son Jesus is risen for them too, to be led new in as born again from God Father of risen Son. Those that are born again by God, quit sin eventually, and only stand in the present second daily. Providing, one does not give up wanting to know, see and be new in God for them, God will eventually reveal to each person according too each persons motive. There are many in belief on their way to the completed by God as the new person they are made to be as God does it, did for them by Son to them. It is done by God in Son for us at that cross fro anyone e to believe God and be new without any more worries over it. Without having to do to get. This is given by God Father of risen Son the moment one seriously does give up on the self to doing anything, since God has done it for them

yeah I kind of just like you see where your saying

“Hardness and impenitent hearts are: "Unbelief to God as Son Jesus is risen for them too, to be led new in as born again from God Father of risen Son”

i have a different approach I do this

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

… Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1, 4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to me this is just saying exactly what he’s saying it’s about eternal judgement based on our deeds when God comes to judge the world both Jew and gentile it’s the same thing Jesus said about our judgement same thin the ot said same thing Peter said

repentance is something that doesn’t just happen it happens as we acknolwedge the truth that sin is certain death repentance and following the lord is certain life we have to hear and accept the truth that we need to repent now before it’s too late

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No problem with any of this. But Jesus came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It wasn't until after His resurrection that the gospel goes to the Gentiles. So not everything He said has application to us. You avoided answering the question because you realize this is true. There was even a council of the Apostles in Acts to give clarity on some issues.
Now if you look closely at the teachings of Jesus, He does preach the gospel of the kingdom. But His teachings deal mostly with the nature of the kingdom of God. In other words, He tells us what it looks like and He models it for us. But He never tells us how to appropriate it for ourselves. The epistles do this for us. They explain further the teachings of Jesus, and teach us how to live out the Christian life. This is why I shared earlier how the epistles are written. The first part of the epistles are largely doctrinal, and the latter half teaches how the doctrines are to work theirselves out in practice in our lives. You will find the doctrinal part in Jesus' teachings, but little of its application.
This makes sense because the new covenant was yet to come and was not applicable yet, and it would not fully be in place for another 40 years. So while everything Jesus said and did was perfect, it cannot be fully understood without the epistles or direct understanding from Jesus Himself. The epistles are that direct understanding given to the writers of the epistles by Jesus Himself.

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Cameron143]

“You avoided answering the question because you realize this is true.”

i did answer your question your asking about the people born under the mosaic law circumcised the tribes of Israel they were all born beholden to the law that’s why Jesus told them that . Because israel was still under Moses law they had to keep following the priests guidance they held Moses seat of judgement

“saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;

but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:

Isn't this an admission that not everything Jesus said has application for the church?

 

[homwardbound]

Do you see how this just says what it says ?

“but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,”

That above, is done by being under Law, not when one is upholding law in Faith trust, belief to God as risen for them. to live new through them


What do we do with the things the bible teaches to the church regarding a subject like eternal judgement ? Which is plainly said here to the church at rome .

aim not asking you to ignore what it says and tell me more of what you think , I’m just honestly asking you what do we do when we study the Bible and it just says clearly and plainly what it says and invites us to believe ?

Do we just ignore what God has said and say “grace we’re saved ?”

I put an excerpt in your quote above, and highlighted it

If it is you that are wanting to walk truly new, it takes you to believe God, not literally, Spiritually John 4:23-24
For they in the first Testament went out to do the Law and found out they couldn't and watered forty years in the desert because of "Unbelief" brother. Not saying you do not believe. I am saying you are misinterpreting the belief you want so badly, God in Gods timing will reveals this to you., as long as you do not give up

Colossians 1:21-23

King James Version

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

By belief, he took all sin. away, for you personally, will change you from trying to do it yourself attitude you have gotten from religion that does not please God at all. Religion is a do good to get others and God to be pleased by you. God is for us to be blessed by God, Psalms 103:12, fulfilled today by Son the tprediction is done for us to stand in and be thankful in.

It is not just saying it, one is saved, it is believing it is completed by Son for us to get given the new life from Jesus's Father to us each in belief to see clearly. It is being born again by God Father of the risen Son Jesus. And that cannot be done by any flesh and blood person. Not even a group of people, can do what is done by Son for them. Only God Father of the risen Son can impute in people the new born again life, talked on in John 3 to Nicodemus

I know you trying to do, at least from the posts, that is what I see, you are seriously trying seriously hard to not do, are you not?
How you doing? well, then not so well, repenting and trying not to do it again? Ending up doing it again and again asking God to forgive (at least just repent) you over and over again, not wanting to do it, yet do it and feel, oh so guilty again and again.

Then you have a good day or a week, maybe even two weeks of stopping that sin you hate so much now, having control over you in the past again and again. Then pride enters and you feel oh so good about it. Thern sin enters again and you guilty again and feel not saved by God at all, is that correct? you answer that in you, not me thank you.

No flesh can please God but Son's that did that on that cross (took all sin away) (John 1:29) for everyone to believe through Son that God (His Father) simply loves us all so deeply, in allowing his Son to die for us all, in our deserved place to be dead, period.
That is completed (John 19:30) for us to believe God in this truth, and that Jesus is risen where God Father gives new born again life to us in God's spirit and Truth to us ( John 4:23-24) we do not live in the flesh anymore, at least learn to not live there anymore over time in not giving up to see it as truth and see what born again really is for us

Yes God loves us all so much he went to that cross once to take care of that problem of sin (error) for use to be born new in his love and mercy to everyone. When you see this, you will not willingly condemn anyone else again as in Romans 2:1-4 tells me at least
Loving you as God loves me, and all the world of people in it

 

[Cameron143]

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All true. All great doctrine. Where is the part that shows us how to do this?

 

[homwardbound]

yeah I kind of just like you see where your saying

“Hardness and impenitent hearts are: "Unbelief to God as Son Jesus is risen for them too, to be led new in as born again from God Father of risen Son”

i have a different approach I do this

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

… Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1, 4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to me this is just saying exactly what he’s saying it’s about eternal judgement based on our deeds when God comes to judge the world both Jew and gentile it’s the same thing Jesus said about our judgement same thin the ot said same thing Peter said

repentance is something that doesn’t just happen it happens as we acknolwedge the truth that sin is certain death repentance and following the lord is certain life we have to hear and accept the truth that we need to repent now before it’s too late

there is this way you have posted from scripture in truth, thank you. The truth in it totally. Now If one does not believe God in the Son is risen from the dead, one stays stuck in sin (Under Law). Either by trying to not sin again, and ending up sinning over and over again, Then people, give up and sin all the more not caring or continue trying, seeing they can't do it. Seeing others in their opinion doing it in Church usually, and then see them not doing it, when some others trip them up, using them seeing the flesh nature deception in them, get the thought to not believe God. When the truth is: God is not doing that to them, it is those claiming they believe God and do not believe God all in all. Such as The Pharisees in Jesus's day here on earth, in the only flesh that has ever pleased God and ever will. No flesh can please God but Son's that is done for us those that believe God
We, die to that first born self of us, in order to be alive to God in God's spirit and truth for us all, me and everyone else. to decide this and be led by the Spirit of God only (John 4:23-24)


Philippians 3:1-4

King James Version

3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Then he goes forward to say how he gave up all his flesh works under Law to win the risen Christ for new life as eternal

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I put an excerpt in your quote above, and highlighted it

If it is you that are wanting to walk truly new, it takes you to believe God, not literally, Spiritually John 4:23-24
For they in the first Testament went out to do the Law and found out they couldn't and watered forty years in the desert because of "Unbelief" brother. Not saying you do not believe. I am saying you are misinterpreting the belief you want so badly, God in Gods timing will reveals this to you., as long as you do not give up

Colossians 1:21-23

King James Version

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

By belief, he took all sin. away, for you personally, will change you from trying to do it yourself attitude you have gotten from religion that does not please God at all. Religion is a do good to get others and God to be pleased by you. God is for us to be blessed by God, Psalms 103:12, fulfilled today by Son the tprediction is done for us to stand in and be thankful in.

It is not just saying it, one is saved, it is believing it is completed by Son for us to get given the new life from Jesus's Father to us each in belief to see clearly. It is being born again by God Father of the risen Son Jesus. And that cannot be done by any flesh and blood person. Not even a group of people, can do what is done by Son for them. Only God Father of the risen Son can impute in people the new born again life, talked on in John 3 to Nicodemus

I know you trying to do, at least from the posts, that is what I see, you are seriously trying seriously hard to not do, are you not?
How you doing? well, then not so well, repenting and trying not to do it again? Ending up doing it again and again asking God to forgive (at least just repent) you over and over again, not wanting to do it, yet do it and feel, oh so guilty again and again.

Then you have a good day or a week, maybe even two weeks of stopping that sin you hate so much now, having control over you in the past again and again. Then pride enters and you feel oh so good about it. Thern sin enters again and you guilty again and feel not saved by God at all, is that correct? you answer that in you, not me thank you.

No flesh can please God but Son's that did that on that cross (took all sin away) (John 1:29) for everyone to believe through Son that God (His Father) simply loves us all so deeply, in allowing his Son to die for us all, in our deserved place to be dead, period.
That is completed (John 19:30) for us to believe God in this truth, and that Jesus is risen where God Father gives new born again life to us in God's spirit and Truth to us ( John 4:23-24) we do not live in the flesh anymore, at least learn to not live there anymore over time in not giving up to see it as truth and see what born again really is for us

Yes God loves us all so much he went to that cross once to take care of that problem of sin (error) for use to be born new in his love and mercy to everyone. When you see this, you will not willingly condemn anyone else again as in Romans 2:1-4 tells me at least
Loving you as God loves me, and all the world of people in it

yeah what I was saying was instead of looking for alternative explanations I choose to believe the word that’s actually there and not coming from interpretation and modern doctrines which mask a severe avoidance of the simplicity of what it says

to me if someone can’t first acknolwedge what is actually said thier explaination of why I don’t understand it fails to land

What you’re saying there is well thought out and presented very well but when can we both agree on what this actually says in the words that are already written down ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

can you and I both agree that this is the judgement taught in the Bible to the church ? Here’s a few more examples of it

“Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. ( v I dont need to do anyth thing I’m already saved )

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. ( v we never have to be judged by our deeds good or bad we shouldn’t believe it )

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; ( that’s why people like me seem so obtuse and talking about repentance and deeds ) but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Another example of why we need to repent

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this isn’t telling us of a bunch of judgements but that Gods judgements are those of Christ it’s why hesring and believing thy e gospel can save us his words are hear words of the only judge

We can accept his word and live

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or reject it and be judged by that which we rejected offering us life

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That is the judgement we face the words of our Lord that will never change or be altered forever they will save believers and condemn non believers to damnation it is Gods double edged sword in the earth and will decide the fate of every Soul of man

but why do we avoid promise of eternal life ?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why do we avoid a warning given to keep us alive if only we would believe him ??

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If I thought “ I dont need to repent “ but I hear and believe the lord it’s going to change my mind until my thinking agrees with my Lord and saviors thinking

why would I not want to believe this ?

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus words are so good they are so much better than Moses words in the law they offer life at every turn repentance to all who listen faith to all who hear and believe salvation to repentant sinners ect

The stuff we don’t like to hear like “ I actually need to change some of my own ways “ those are the things that make us grow and change our thinking from sinners to disciples

I think Maybe I just have a different method from some others . I’m on no way trying to say your not a chrirtoan or your lost or false teacher ect ect lease undersrsnd that part you have a relationship with the lord like I do and salvstion is between you and he

I do see things differently but also see some agreement in some of what you said there I think fundamentals is where I don’t agree but do appreciate the discussion and excercise for my brain well what’s left of it lol

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The

there is this way you have posted from scripture in truth, thank you. The truth in it totally. Now If one does not believe God in the Son is risen from the dead, one stays stuck in sin (Under Law). Either by trying to not sin again, and ending up sinning over and over again, Then people, give up and sin all the more not caring or continue trying, seeing they can't do it. Seeing others in their opinion doing it in Church usually, and then see them not doing it, when some others trip them up, using them seeing the flesh nature deception in them, get the thought to not believe God. When the truth is: God is not doing that to them, it is those claiming they believe God and do not believe God all in all. Such as The Pharisees in Jesus's day here on earth, in the only flesh that has ever pleased God and ever will. No flesh can please God but Son's that is done for us those that believe God
We, die to that first born self of us, in order to be alive to God in God's spirit and truth for us all, me and everyone else. to decide this and be led by the Spirit of God only (John 4:23-24)


Philippians 3:1-4

King James Version

3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Then he goes forward to say how he gave up all his flesh works under Law to win the risen Christ for new life as eternal

I think all I would do is quote a bunch of scriptures along the same lines as I have in response I’m not really following why we can’t talk about what it says in the Bible ? That’s the only reason I come to a bible discussion forum

Again some of what your saying makes some sense but when you say for instance this

“We, die to that first born self of us, in order to be alive to God in God's spirit and truth for us all, me and everyone else. to decide this and be led by the Spirit of God only “

tell me what you actually mean by this ?

 

[homwardbound]

All true. All great doctrine. Where is the part that shows us how to do this?

The continual going after to know God Father of the risen Son Jesus personally, that is how. at least this has been doing that in me fr me and never against me from God ever. Yet from people, this has been different. Accusing and excusing me in what they see me do or not do according to what they think is true. Sometimes are right and others times not right. therefore these, those have become interferers of God doing God's good work in me, you and them too.
Which is why I see this:
Paul got upset over this happening, with others interfering and saying aul is using this forgiveness to get away with sin, when he never did that and stated the Corinthians used to listen to him and now do not, hearing all those others preaching using esoteric words, secret knowledge to arouse the people to go after under them
Paul, saw to give up and let them go and find out for themselves in. doing whatever they chose
Saying this
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"
So, this answer you asked comes from God to you, in you personally as you read the word to hear truth over the many errors of Bible interpretations out there.
read the Bible in the full context to you as a Gigantic love story from God to you personally, then you will hear the truth over the errors in you, in me and all others too.
If you start at Genesis 1 and see the fall of the first Adam in Gen. 3. You might see this
God did not kill Adam or Eve did God? therefore who or what killed Adam the first? was it, "Unbelief" he ate as told if did, he would die. Adam in unbelief ate, and eventually died from stress entering him ever since then, worry over this and that, eventually, killed him. It is much worse today with murders and liars and cheaters and so on and so forth, all in unbelief to God, none wanting to die, yet all die because of us all. We all are first born with having the choice to believe God or not. Many saying they do and yet do not completely believe God had Son die for us all in our deserved place to die and did this truth, took away all sin as said in John 1:29. He did not take it away from this world's sight, Jesus took it away from his Father's sight, so we can now enter into his throne of grace with confidence and have a conversation with Father. To develop a relationship of being forgiven. why did Son do that? Psalms 100:4, to see Psalms 103:12 as done just as Son said it is in John 19:30 for us all to be reconciled as said we are in 2 Cor 5:17-20 by God for us, wow is that good news or what?
So decide to be reconciled and ask for the new life in the risen Son, Jesus and start learning new over the error(s) here in this world still going on ever since that first fall of Adam.

Worry to this day is what is killing people to this day.
As God, Jesus said to cast all our worries on his Father and Jesus asked this as well Will worry add any moment to your life? (Matt 6)
Anyways, brother, start reading to know God personally and in belief to want to know God personally, God knowing whether or not you are sincere or not, will reveal his love and mercy to you by Son for you too, only if you are sincere and will not quit, even if troubles happen to you and probably will. Will you continue as Job did in the book of Job?
trusting God to do as God does so well, and not seen as love by flesh and blood nature ever, time to be alive with Father and Son in Gods' Spirit and Truth for you too (John 4:23-24)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Isn't this an admission that not everything Jesus said has application for the church?

a that’s not what I said th ats what you invented to avoid what we were talking about lol what I said was that everything Jesus taught his disciples is forever ot applies to Jew and gentile believers and non believers every creature

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you going to admit that part ? Or this part

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This part ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This part ?

“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this part ?

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Does this mysterious spirit we follow agree with Jesus and his holy spirit who preached the gospel ?

 

[Cameron143]

The continual going after to know God Father of the risen Son Jesus personally, that is how. at least this has been doing that in me fr me and never against me from God ever. Yet from people, this has been different. Accusing and excusing me in what they see me do or not do according to what they think is true. Sometimes are right and others times not right. therefore these, those have become interferers of God doing God's good work in me, you and them too.
Which is why I see this:
Paul got upset over this happening, with others interfering and saying aul is using this forgiveness to get away with sin, when he never did that and stated the Corinthians used to listen to him and now do not, hearing all those others preaching using esoteric words, secret knowledge to arouse the people to go after under them
Paul, saw to give up and let them go and find out for themselves in. doing whatever they chose
Saying this
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"
So, this answer you asked comes from God to you, in you personally as you read the word to hear truth over the many errors of Bible interpretations out there.
read the Bible in the full context to you as a Gigantic love story from God to you personally, then you will hear the truth over the errors in you, in me and all others too.
If you start at Genesis 1 and see the fall of the first Adam in Gen. 3. You might see this
God did not kill Adam or Eve did God? therefore who or what killed Adam the first? was it, "Unbelief" he ate as told if did, he would die. Adam in unbelief ate, and eventually died from stress entering him ever since then, worry over this and that, eventually, killed him. It is much worse today with murders and liars and cheaters and so on and so forth, all in unbelief to God, none wanting to die, yet all die because of us all. We all are first born with having the choice to believe God or not. Many saying they do and yet do not completely believe God had Son die for us all in our deserved place to die and did this truth, took away all sin as said in John 1:29. He did not take it away from this world's sight, Jesus took it away from his Father's sight, so we can now enter into his throne of grace with confidence and have a conversation with Father. To develop a relationship of being forgiven. why did Son do that? Psalms 100:4, to see Psalms 103:12 as done just as Son said it is in John 19:30 for us all to be reconciled as said we are in 2 Cor 5:17-20 by God for us, wow is that good news or what?
So decide to be reconciled and ask for the new life in the risen Son, Jesus and start learning new over the error(s) here in this world still going on ever since that first fall of Adam.

Worry to this day is what is killing people to this day.
As God, Jesus said to cast all our worries on his Father and Jesus asked this as well Will worry add any moment to your life? (Matt 6)
Anyways, brother, start reading to know God personally and in belief to want to know God personally, God knowing whether or not you are sincere or not, will reveal his love and mercy to you by Son for you too, only if you are sincere and will not quit, even if troubles happen to you and probably will. Will you continue as Job did in the book of Job?
trusting God to do as God does so well, and not seen as love by flesh and blood nature ever, time to be alive with Father and Son in Gods' Spirit and Truth for you too (John 4:23-24)

My only point was that the application of spiritual truth is found in the epistles.

 

[homwardbound]

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

can you and I both agree that this is the judgement taught in the Bible to the church ? Here’s a few more examples of it

“Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. ( v I dont need to do anyth thing I’m already saved )

Agreed 100% to all those that God knows whether or not who believes God the above is absolute truth
Now for me, I have to say, I believed God since age twelve. I had, have been a failure many times over and over and over again, not wanting to ever sin again, and yet continued in it anyways, under Law, not seeing truth in. what Paul was trying to say in Romans 1-2, 3-5, 6-8
Now seeing it new as born new from God by belief to God has got it all for me to walk new and possibly not ever sin again at all.
seeing this, what Paul says


Philippians 3:12-20

King James Version

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

I thank you for your exhortations from scripture to believe God to be new in God by Son Jesus's done work for us to be new and not worry over it
I see to be in today, presently, not in the past or future anymore
Born again by God and am safe and secure in God without worry anymore or fear 1 John 4:18-19
I am so grateful that you stand in belief to God too

seeing the truth now at age 67, of what born again by God really is as said to be that in John 3 to Niciodemus

 

[Pilgrimshope]

All true. All great doctrine. Where is the part that shows us how to do this?

How to do what ?

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The epistles are this part

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Brother I’m not a g or any of the use of and importance of the epistles I study those two have for peer near fifty years or so . They don’t replace or change anything they are the rest of what Jesus had to say but they could t grasp it yet because the holt ghost hadn’t been given

air doesn’t change what Jesus said it just means there was more that would be revealed in the epistles and there is . This has never been about anyone rejecting the epistles. It’s about accepting the word of the Lord first otherwise the epistles have no meaning when you read Paul’s language like this

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s talking about this law given by the lawgiver

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The apostles were further revealing the gospel not changing or removing a single word of it .

This is true for everyone alive now them before or ever

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[homwardbound]

My only point was that the application of spiritual truth is found in the epistles.

Thank you, agreed, the epistles sort a lot out in me too

 

[Cameron143]

a that’s not what I said th ats what you invented to avoid what we were talking about lol what I said was that everything Jesus taught his disciples is forever ot applies to Jew and gentile believers and non believers every creature

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you going to admit that part ? Or this part

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This part ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This part ?

“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this part ?

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Does this mysterious spirit we follow agree with Jesus and his holy spirit who preached the gospel ?

My point was twofold:
1. Everything that Jesus said was not applicable to the church. The Apostles didn't teach that the church should do as the Pharisees said. This doesn't mean that they didn't teach what Jesus taught them; it means they taught the appropriate parts of what He taught; and
2. Jesus did not exhaustively teach all there was to be known of the new covenant during His time on earth. If He had, there would be no need for further explanation in the books written after His death and resurrection. The epistles explain the Gospels and make application of the Christian faith.