Baptism
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This is Paul speaking about himseif in the spirit.
Hes saying how the person without the spirit is not able to understand.
But if hes not able to understand surely he must have had something to not understand
Are you talking about the natural man not accepting the spiritual things of God to as well, thats obvious but does that mean he has nothing. Or he never does.
Or the part where Paul says a natural man can only know his own thoughts. Again was Paul speaking about the condition of the natural man here of how he can be.
According to scripture the spiritual man still can be the same, where they walk in the flesh.
I'm not sure where your getting the unsaved have nothing in them
Hes saying how the person without the spirit is not able to understand.
But if hes not able to understand surely he must have had something to not understand
Are you talking about the natural man not accepting the spiritual things of God to as well, thats obvious but does that mean he has nothing. Or he never does.
Or the part where Paul says a natural man can only know his own thoughts. Again was Paul speaking about the condition of the natural man here of how he can be.
According to scripture the spiritual man still can be the same, where they walk in the flesh.
I'm not sure where your getting the unsaved have nothing in them
What does this meslan @Cameron143 can you apply your own understanding to this.
Can we just sway one way with this with one understanding
Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes
What understanding do you put in that verse
Does it Have to be enabled or has to be believed or both
Ot he has to believe first.
Can you even apply your own understanding to that
Deuteronomy 25.5 should apply to everyone should it not
Love the lord with all your heart
Can we just sway one way with this with one understanding
Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes
What understanding do you put in that verse
Does it Have to be enabled or has to be believed or both
Ot he has to believe first.
Can you even apply your own understanding to that
Deuteronomy 25.5 should apply to everyone should it not
Love the lord with all your heart
It's still necessary yes I will give answer.
Not only is it necessary it's a part of the faith and part of being saved.
It is also the holy spirit that baptises you in water, and the holy spirit is the witness.
It's also The spirit in the believer who is the witness to and it's Jesus who is present
It Has purpose because its commandment.
But your talking to someone who's stated Christian are not in any covenant not even the new covenant.
The scripture say only in christ is old covenant is taken away ..it says nothing about the new covenant being taken away.
Which means what is taken away in the old covenant is death
I've already tried to tell him that to baptised is, to be baptised into the new covenant. I've been called troll several times for sayin this thing alone by many members
He's abused me over this and even trying to rob me of my friend here.
What's more is he's a teacher of hyper grace.
Yes sorry to gossip but that's all he done to me is gossip
Not only is it necessary it's a part of the faith and part of being saved.
It is also the holy spirit that baptises you in water, and the holy spirit is the witness.
It's also The spirit in the believer who is the witness to and it's Jesus who is present
It Has purpose because its commandment.
But your talking to someone who's stated Christian are not in any covenant not even the new covenant.
The scripture say only in christ is old covenant is taken away ..it says nothing about the new covenant being taken away.
Which means what is taken away in the old covenant is death
I've already tried to tell him that to baptised is, to be baptised into the new covenant. I've been called troll several times for sayin this thing alone by many members
He's abused me over this and even trying to rob me of my friend here.
What's more is he's a teacher of hyper grace.
Yes sorry to gossip but that's all he done to me is gossip
Scripture reveals obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus is when God remits sin. (Mark 1:1-5, Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, 22:16) Choosing to accept that truth takes an act of faith. Keep in mind, the Bible is full of examples where God commanded things that made no sense. However, those who acted in faith to His commands saw the mighty hand of God. Obedience always brings about what God promises.
Just a couple of OT examples that foreshadow the NT water baptism command:
"And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord,...
And the Lord said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:
But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea." (Ex. 14:13, 15-16)
"Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation." Ex 15:13
"And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the Lord his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper. (Leprosy represented Sin)
Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean." 2 Kings 5:10-14
Just a couple of OT examples that foreshadow the NT water baptism command:
"And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord,...
And the Lord said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:
But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea." (Ex. 14:13, 15-16)
"Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation." Ex 15:13
"And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.
But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the Lord his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper. (Leprosy represented Sin)
Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean." 2 Kings 5:10-14
Dip yourself in the Holy Spirit
The Prophet today is Christ not John
Baptism into Christ is into His Body and accomplished by Holy Spirit
Closed eyes
Not into His Name has to be baptized but into Him
Not only to be called one of Christ but to be one of Christ
Not to be called son of God but to be son of God
The Prophet today is Christ not John
Baptism into Christ is into His Body and accomplished by Holy Spirit
Closed eyes
Not into His Name has to be baptized but into Him
Not only to be called one of Christ but to be one of Christ
Not to be called son of God but to be son of God
Jesus revealed water baptism was necessary for salvation.
Notice it was Jesus who gave the Apostle Peter the keys to the kingdom. It is important to note keys were mentioned, not a single key. (Matt. 16:19) Jesus revealed water baptism was one of those keys. (Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:15-16. John 3:3-5) It was on the Day of Pentecost, as prophesied by Jesus Himself, that the keys were first presented. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:36-42) The same message was then carried to individuals of all nations, and will continue until Jesus returns for His bride. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) A bride who has made herself ready having taken on the name of her new husband.
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41
Notice it was Jesus who gave the Apostle Peter the keys to the kingdom. It is important to note keys were mentioned, not a single key. (Matt. 16:19) Jesus revealed water baptism was one of those keys. (Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:15-16. John 3:3-5) It was on the Day of Pentecost, as prophesied by Jesus Himself, that the keys were first presented. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:36-42) The same message was then carried to individuals of all nations, and will continue until Jesus returns for His bride. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) A bride who has made herself ready having taken on the name of her new husband.
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41
This no way to speak about Gods authority
, your only speaking for yourself
And still you have not answered question, I gave you. Because you can't accept or receive when your, stuck in your rebellion.
I haven't even bothered to reply to you several times, as your not speaking For God.
And your only going to reject what is being shown By God,
Why you think only your understanding is correct
Jesus said don't make me the Judge of any disputes you have amongst each other for Good reason.
He wants you to speak For God for Good reason.
What and you think your speaking for his commandments, and then with this your now making your God the Judge of people by this.
Your not going to take heed so I will leave you to your misery and your exile
, your only speaking for yourself
And still you have not answered question, I gave you. Because you can't accept or receive when your, stuck in your rebellion.
I haven't even bothered to reply to you several times, as your not speaking For God.
And your only going to reject what is being shown By God,
Why you think only your understanding is correct
Jesus said don't make me the Judge of any disputes you have amongst each other for Good reason.
He wants you to speak For God for Good reason.
What and you think your speaking for his commandments, and then with this your now making your God the Judge of people by this.
Your not going to take heed so I will leave you to your misery and your exile
The natural man has natural faculties. He can hear and see and do things. He can operate in the natural world.
The spiritual man can do as the natural man as well as operate in the spiritual world. He can hear and see spiritually which means he has spiritual understanding and perception. He moves also, but he is able to live, and move, and have his being in Christ.
While the spiritual man can walk in the flesh and appear very much as the natural man at times, God is always at work in him willing and doing of his good pleasure. God is also chastening him, not to punish him, but to instruct him in the ways of righteousness.
Where there is life, you will always see growth. This is true of spiritual life as well.
The spiritual man can do as the natural man as well as operate in the spiritual world. He can hear and see spiritually which means he has spiritual understanding and perception. He moves also, but he is able to live, and move, and have his being in Christ.
While the spiritual man can walk in the flesh and appear very much as the natural man at times, God is always at work in him willing and doing of his good pleasure. God is also chastening him, not to punish him, but to instruct him in the ways of righteousness.
Where there is life, you will always see growth. This is true of spiritual life as well.
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I understand this Cameron.
And im thankful you recognise this.
Where we're in disagreement is that you say that the person is enabled by hearing first then he believes yes.
Surely it is the others way around brother.
Surely the enabling is done after he believes yes.
Please listen to what I'm saying here, it doesn't seem right that's a spiritual man can still act with the lust of the flesh,
And be treated differently to a non spiritual man who is acting in the same way with the lusts of the flesh.
Cameron you say that Faith come by hearing the word.
So all these commandments spoke to all these people in Deuteronomy.
They spoke to the 12 tribes of Israel yes I mean that was a lot of people yes.
And then they were judged by those commandments Cameron but they saved as in completely saved.
So how can they be completely dead to sin Cameron if they're being judged.
So something has to be enabled for them to be Judged, but they were not saved as in saved with the new seed of Jesus.
Knowing right from wrong it's also, it's a type of enabling already to exist in people you know.
Knowing right from wrong exists in everyone cam so something has been enabled for them to know right from wrong.
And im thankful you recognise this.
Where we're in disagreement is that you say that the person is enabled by hearing first then he believes yes.
Surely it is the others way around brother.
Surely the enabling is done after he believes yes.
Please listen to what I'm saying here, it doesn't seem right that's a spiritual man can still act with the lust of the flesh,
And be treated differently to a non spiritual man who is acting in the same way with the lusts of the flesh.
Cameron you say that Faith come by hearing the word.
So all these commandments spoke to all these people in Deuteronomy.
They spoke to the 12 tribes of Israel yes I mean that was a lot of people yes.
And then they were judged by those commandments Cameron but they saved as in completely saved.
So how can they be completely dead to sin Cameron if they're being judged.
So something has to be enabled for them to be Judged, but they were not saved as in saved with the new seed of Jesus.
Knowing right from wrong it's also, it's a type of enabling already to exist in people you know.
Knowing right from wrong exists in everyone cam so something has been enabled for them to know right from wrong.
Back to the Bible. Jesus commanded obedience to water baptism. He did not give the command to dip in the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:15-16)
The NT water baptism command was given well after John the Baptist was beheaded. As mentioned, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin was begun after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Jesus prophesied repentance and remission of sin (a reference to water baptism) would be preached in all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.
The NT water baptism command was given well after John the Baptist was beheaded. As mentioned, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin was begun after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Jesus prophesied repentance and remission of sin (a reference to water baptism) would be preached in all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.
We'll just have to disagree about when a person hears. The natural man cannot hear with spiritual understanding and until this spiritual understanding is present, he will never come to understand his lost condition before God. As this is true, I believe it will always be necessary for God to act before man will respond. I believe Romans 3 bears this out.
As far as judgment goes, there are 2 kinds of judgment. One deals with eternity. And the only thing that matters in this judgment is whether or not one is in Christ. Those in Christ have passed from death to life and will not be judged. All not in Christ will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
There is another judgment for believers. It doesn't involve eternity itself, but rewards in eternity. Here, the Christian's works will be evaluated and either be burnt up or accrue rewards in eternity.
As far as judgment goes, there are 2 kinds of judgment. One deals with eternity. And the only thing that matters in this judgment is whether or not one is in Christ. Those in Christ have passed from death to life and will not be judged. All not in Christ will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
There is another judgment for believers. It doesn't involve eternity itself, but rewards in eternity. Here, the Christian's works will be evaluated and either be burnt up or accrue rewards in eternity.
