Jesus Was Made Perfect?

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Have you seen this? Graphic

No, I haven't. Quite a few years ago I separated myself from the ideas of "men" and began to study with the support of the Holy Spirit, depending on the Spirit to deliver His Message without human interference. Best thing I ever did! Now, however, with a more firm foundation, I am moving back toward the thoughts of scholars for bits of information that are useful.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

“Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest ( it’s about his humanity his time as a man ) in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, ( because he experienced temptation )

he is able to succour them that are tempted.”( he’s able to strengthen us to overcome it )
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yep. You quoted my words from two days ago. We've moved well past what you're addressing above. Thanks, though.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This requires wisdom.

It's at the very beginning:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

This was a covenant with God the Father and God the Son. Although Adam was created, he did not continue on according to the rules of the covenant.

This extended to Abraham:

"For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself..."

This was an agreement among God. Abraham received the promises of the agreement. AS I've said before, this is like a child receiving the benefits of a husband and wife entering into a loving marriage.

Later, we see that the payment for this covenant was made before the earth was made:

"All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

The Son paid the price for the covenant before the earth was made. And, because God is just, He obligated Himself to meet the requirements of the covenant. The requirements of the covenant was this:

"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom."

“This was a covenant with God the Father and God the Son. “

do you think it’s relevant that the bible says God the Father but never says God the son ? But instead says “ the son of God “

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. ( you are sayong this covenant is made between two Gods in the beginning ?)

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, ( he’s making the covenant with them mankind )

Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems like the son of God in genesis one is adam who He God made the covenant with

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i dont in any way see how this is covenant was made between God the Father and “ God the son “ it seems like it’s the covenant made between God and man his children

and maybe this is why God had to later become a man in order to fulfill the covenant he made with man in the beginning . That Adam and the sons of men never fulfilled themselves so God became one of us ( the son ) and fulfilled the covenant

Adam the first man

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus the new man

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, ( mankind ) he also himself likewise took part of the same; ( God became a man the son ) that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

redemption man was chosen as Gods children for the very first one of us who’s body was created and who’s spirit came out from God later they corrupted thoer created state and this is why Jesus needed to become a man not corrupted that he could save mankind from what Adam the first man had done

 

[Aaron56]

No, I haven't. Quite a few years ago I separated myself from the ideas of "men" and began to study with the support of the Holy Spirit, depending on the Spirit to deliver His Message without human interference. Best thing I ever did! Now, however, with a more firm foundation, I am moving back toward the thoughts of scholars for bits of information that are useful.

I did the same: walked away from commentaries and just used the scriptures, a Greek and Hebrew dictionary, and a Concordance. Later I picked up this book: Historical Handbook of Major Biblical Interpreters. I wanted to read how early church leaders and their doctrines were influenced by the events of their day.

 

[Aaron56]

“This was a covenant with God the Father and God the Son. “

do you think it’s relevant that the bible says God the Father but never says God the son ? But instead says “ the son of God “

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. ( you are sayong this covenant is made between two Gods in the beginning ?)

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, ( he’s making the covenant with them mankind )

Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems like the son of God in genesis one is adam who He God made the covenant with

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i dont in any way see how this is covenant was made between God the Father and “ God the son “ it seems like it’s the covenant made between God and man his children

and maybe this is why God had to later become a man in order to fulfill the covenant he made with man in the beginning . That Adam and the sons of men never fulfilled themselves so God became one of us ( the son ) and fulfilled the covenant

Adam the first man

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus the new man

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, ( mankind ) he also himself likewise took part of the same; ( God became a man the son ) that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

redemption man was chosen as Gods children for the very first one of us who’s body was created and who’s spirit came out from God later they corrupted thoer created state and this is why Jesus needed to become a man not corrupted that he could save mankind from what Adam the first man had done

When I use "God the Son" it is intentional. Even if those words do not appear in that order in the scriptures the phrase is nevertheless true.

We see the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That is not an arbitrary occurrence waiting for relevance. That was a price paid for an agreement. Hints of the nature of this agreement are all throughout scripture: "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased"; "Do what He tells you"; "I Am"; "As Moses lifted the serpent, even so must the Son of man be lifted up"; The Horn of Salvation; etc. etc. etc.

Through the Son all things were created. That's why His pattern is seen in all of creation: from the beginning until the end of this Age and beyond.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes.



Mmmmm . . . I don't think human flesh temps. Spiritual Flesh, yes.

I didn’t say human flesh tempts I said our flesh is what’s is tempted God partook of flesh and blood and overcame it here’s the best example of what I’m saying

“And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: ( Jesus easnt immune to human feelings and emotions fear , temptation ect he was stronger than all of that and turned to God when he struggled ) tarry ye hear, and watch with me.

And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: ( what man wouldn’t be stressed knowing what’s coming )nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.( you can see here jesus carried a man’s free Will through his flesh and also Gods Will was within him by the spirit )

Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:37-39, 41-42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Temptatikns are part of our fallen world to even very simply things like when someone insults us we’re being tempted to respond in some carnal way

Jesus faced the daily life we all do in the form of a humble man who grew up to be a carptenter before he was called and annointed to preach the gospel the difference is he never followed temptation he always obeyed God despite the temptations he felt

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When I use "God the Son" it is intentional. Even if those words do not appear in that order in the scriptures the phrase is nevertheless true.

We see the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That is not an arbitrary occurrence waiting for relevance. That was a price paid for an agreement. Hints of the nature of this agreement are all throughout scripture: "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased"; "Do what He tells you"; "I Am"; "As Moses lifted the serpent, even so must the Son of man be lifted up"; The Horn of Salvation; etc. etc. etc.

Through the Son all things were created. That's why His pattern is seen in all of creation: from the beginning until the end of this Age and beyond.

So you believe in the beginning God didn’t make the covenant with Adam o the scripture calls the son of God but instead God is two and made a covenant between himself ?

i am not following brother I must lack the wisdom it requires to know that

“He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Aaron56]

So you believe in the beginning God didn’t make the covenant with Adam o the scripture calls the son of God but instead God is two and made a covenant between himself ?

i am not following brother I must lack the wisdom it requires to know that

“He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Um, no. God is One. When He appears as the Spirit over the deep, as God the Father or God the Son it is for our benefit. He does this so that we may know Him.

If I start writing about this I will fill several pages.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When I use "God the Son" it is intentional. Even if those words do not appear in that order in the scriptures the phrase is nevertheless true.

We see the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That is not an arbitrary occurrence waiting for relevance. That was a price paid for an agreement. Hints of the nature of this agreement are all throughout scripture: "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased"; "Do what He tells you"; "I Am"; "As Moses lifted the serpent, even so must the Son of man be lifted up"; The Horn of Salvation; etc. etc. etc.

Through the Son all things were created. That's why His pattern is seen in all of creation: from the beginning until the end of this Age and beyond.

“When I use "God the Son" it is intentional. “

But i wonder why God the Father appears , but God the son doesn’t appear ? But instead the Son of God appears ?

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:

“God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:35‬ ‭

Jesus is eternal in the beginning this is him

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then Later he did this

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, ( God became a man the son ) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

mankknd are the children he partook of mankind

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; ( he became flesh and blood the son ) that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God became a man that’s where the son of God comes from hes God in the flesh the same who creates all things came in th e flesh to redeem all things the son is the one God , born as a man on earth , and raised up into the heavens

The father and son are one not two

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Um, no. God is One. When He appears as the Spirit over the deep, as God the Father or God the Son it is for our benefit. He does this so that we may know Him.

If I start writing about this I will fill several pages.

Yeah is it something you’ve learned from scripture ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Um, no. God is One. When He appears as the Spirit over the deep, as God the Father or God the Son it is for our benefit. He does this so that we may know Him.

If I start writing about this I will fill several pages.

“Um, no. God is One. “

i see .

 

[Aaron56]

“When I use "God the Son" it is intentional. “

But i wonder why God the Father appears , but God the son doesn’t appear ? But instead the Son of God appears ?

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:

“God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:35‬ ‭

Jesus is eternal in the beginning this is him

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then Later he did this

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, ( God became a man the son ) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

mankknd are the children he partook of mankind

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; ( he became flesh and blood the son ) that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God became a man that’s where the son of God comes from hes God in the flesh the same who creates all things came in th e flesh to redeem all things the son is the one God , born as a man on earth , and raised up into the heavens

The father and son are one not two

I understand what you are saying. I am striking at an error in the church.

Quite simply, if God has a son that son shares His nature. He is in likeness and kind to Him. This is the ministry of reconciliation: being brought back to God's original intent "Let's Us make many in Our own image and likeness". What is prevalent in the church is a ministry of CONciliation: let's do our best so we can get something of value. We remain poor and wretched and the best we can hope for is to go to heaven when we die.

The ministry of conciliation keeps the church weak.

 

[p_rehbein]

Hola Scholars! You know, I remember seeing the below Scripture many times, but have never taken the time to investigate it. Check it out . . .

Hebrews 5:8-9 NIV - "Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him . . ."

I've looked at quite a few different translations and the idea is consistent . . . that Jesus was somehow changed to a point of perfection. In fact, now that I think of it, and I may be wrong here, but I think within the Davidic Covenant, there is a passage that states that if Jesus sins, he will be punished for His wrongdoing. 2 Sam 07:11-16

Guys . . . What thoughts come to mind?

And again I ask: Do you believe in the Holy Trinity? If so, why in the world would you believe God needed to be "made perfect?" God IS perfection personified.

Jesu is, was, and always will be GOD! God the Son.

John, Chapter 1:


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

(Personally, I believe you do not believe in/understand the Holy Trinity, and continue to teach against Jesus being FULLY GOD. But, now, that may just be me)

 

[Prodigal]

Hola Scholars! You know, I remember seeing the below Scripture many times, but have never taken the time to investigate it. Check it out . . .

Hebrews 5:8-9 NIV - "Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him . . ."

I've looked at quite a few different translations and the idea is consistent . . . that Jesus was somehow changed to a point of perfection. In fact, now that I think of it, and I may be wrong here, but I think within the Davidic Covenant, there is a passage that states that if Jesus sins, he will be punished for His wrongdoing. 2 Sam 07:11-16

Guys . . . What thoughts come to mind?

I’m about halfway through a book by Thomas Goodwin entitled Christ Set Forth. If you are serious about your question, you may find some answers there. First published in 1642, the writing style takes a minute to adjust too, but as with most Puritan writings, you will come away challenged and blessed. Highly recommended. You can find this book at Banner of Truth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I understand what you are saying. I am striking at an error in the church.

Quite simply, if God has a son that son shares His nature. He is in likeness and kind to Him. This is the ministry of reconciliation: being brought back to God's original intent "Let's Us make many in Our own image and likeness". What is prevalent in the church is a ministry of CONciliation: let's do our best so we can get something of value. We remain poor and wretched and the best we can hope for is to go to heaven when we die.

The ministry of conciliation keeps the church weak.

whats the ministry of conciliation ?

“We remain poor and wretched and the best we can hope for is to go to heaven when we die.”

what is it we should be looking for ?

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:43‬ ‭

“And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for your's is the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:19-21‬ ‭

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; and labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

christians aren’t promised to be the comfortable wealthy elite of society they are called from the broken and poor the cast aside the lame and rejected they don’t have thier Hope on this world but on what’s after when they get home this worlds treasures and honors are poisonous a

We should be setting our sights on the heavens and our home with the lord and the new creation the new earth he’s promised after death is a bad memory

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1, 3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother Christian’s should be ready for the world to reject them and to face a lot of hardship and trials here on this earth we shouldnt plant our roots here but should be looking for the kingdom after our death and resurrection in Christ

 

[studier]

That's pretty amazing. And, this is all a great example of the necessity of the Body of Christ, utilizing each of us for our own skills and abilities.

It's also an example of how the Spirit can train our thinking over time if we respond to His leading and guidance and sit at His feet and learn from Him.

All that I am capable of doing is the latter of the two above. You seem like the kind of person I need for help. If you could start all over again, what free resources would you use to figure out how to use the lexicons, etc? I'll probably end up taking classes somewhere, but I'd like to get a jump start so that I don't get left behind.

Good question. We all have our gifts. Learning the languages was impressed upon me. I ended up way more versed in Greek than in Hebrew. Languages were a struggle for me. I literally would come home from classes with very strange headaches. I just thought God was creating new synapses. In the end it became simple.

I'm not sure what's freely available today. Probably quite a bit. I gave up a career to be taught. It was the best investment of time and $ I ever made. If you want to study in the languages:

1. Concordances are a good start to at least see where specific words are used.
2. With the basic ability to read a Greek word, the Greek Lexicons become a useful tool. This is the favored today BDAG - others are open source and available on line. I can give you an overview if you'd like some basic info.
3. These are some sites to the Greek Basics book and author I was trained from in seminary. I'd think with some focused searches one could find many resources today. If you see something you'd like me to take a look at, please feel free to message me:
   1. Bill Mounce
   2. Basic Lessons
4. This is the advanced grammar we used:
   1. Greek Grammar
   2. Lecture video

There are a lot of resources. Also check the Logos library system and prices of books there. There are a few outstanding software systems available but not cheap. I'd think some on these forums could suggest online systems better than I.

I'd also look at Academia for access to thousands of articles. There are several of such organizations. Logos also has theological journals articles which can be great resources. I pay $50/yr here for access to many Journals. Again, there are other such resources.

Above all, if you have a strong desire to learn such things, then pay attention to it and pray for guidance. Remember that God does not lack resources to make available to you what He wants you to have and to know. You'll probably find that some will tell you you don't need such training. Listen to God. I had no desire to go back to school then I did. I had no desire to teach but was asked to so I did.

Please feel free to message me if you have more questions. I'm kind of rushing with this as we have an appointment to get to.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for saying so. Same to you.

 

[studier]

No, I haven't. Quite a few years ago I separated myself from the ideas of "men" and began to study with the support of the Holy Spirit, depending on the Spirit to deliver His Message without human interference. Best thing I ever did! Now, however, with a more firm foundation, I am moving back toward the thoughts of scholars for bits of information that are useful.

I liked the graphic when I first saw it. It visually shows how extensively the entire Book is tied together. With your assembling OT references, I'm sure you know this.

I understand your process, well, probably very, very well.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Apologies for posting another passage without reading the latest responses. But check this out . . .

Hebrews 4:7 NLT - "So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: "Today when you hear his voice, don't harden your hearts."

Now wait a second!! Isn't there ANOTHER time for the Jews to be awakened and brought back into the Vine of Christ?

Romans 11:25 NLT - "I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ."

Has this event slipped past me? Has the proper number of Gentiles already been grafted into the Vine? Have the Blessed Jews already awakened and grafted back in? Was that "Day" the Day of Christ?

And the Hebrews plot thickens. Whew.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I said our flesh is what’s is tempted

Interesting. I thought it was the heart that was tempted. The body obeys the heart. At least that's what I think the Bible reports. Do you think that is wrong?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

(Personally, I believe you do not believe in/understand the Holy Trinity, and continue to teach against Jesus being FULLY GOD. But, now, that may just be me)

I would ask clarifying questions before making such a judgment. But, do as you will.