The 'ELECT' vs 'Free-Choice'

[Niki7]

Hey, Niki... I have a question for you. Did Jeremiah have a choice?

Do you have a choice? As a gentile NT Christian and not an OT prophet who was actually part of an entire race of people who were set aside for the purposes of God....do you have a choice?

I would honestly tell you that you do not have all the freedom you might think in order to make certain choices. we have freedom in Christ but there are different levels of that freedom. if we truly desire what is truth, I am firm in my conviction that God will lead us out into freedom and yes, it is a process.

As for Jeremiah, here is an article that should be helpful. bottome line though, is that YES Jerremiah had a choice and so do you regarding reading the article or even parts of it. it is up to you

Jeremiah 1:51 states that before Jeremiah was born, even before he was conceived in his mother’s womb, the Lord had specific plans for his life. Scholars widely interpret this passage to mean that God had predestined the course of Jeremiah’s life.

However, sound biblical exegesis reveals that the clearest reading of Jeremiah 1:5 testifies not to an inviolable predestination as to what the prophet’s life and ministry would be but to God’s sovereignty mingled with humanity’s free will. This article will show that even during the collapse of the kingdom of Judah, the Lord, wanting to save His children, never forced or predestined the will of Jeremiah.

I will also aim to illuminate a passage of Scripture that has long been painted with the broad brush of predestination. In so doing, we shall arrive at a clearer understanding of God’s all-loving and ever-respecting stance toward humanity’s total and complete freedom of will and choice.

 

[awelight]

Just pointing out to you that even though the idea seems crazy to you, there are those who hold to it.

I understand but there are those that still hold to the Flat Earth concept.

Ignorance is to be tolerated and guided to Truth with patience but nothing can be done with plain oh unreasoning idiocy. Only God Himself can break that down.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I don't get your point because it has altered from the original subject.

You obviously missed the point our Lord was making. It's not just about works it is about relationship.
Verse 44a Ye are of your father the devil,

well no it never altered the original first post it brought a counter argument.

How are you able to counter being of the devil 🙂

I recall the prayer given to you to pray was the choice of him

Father lead is not into temptation

 

[selahsays]

Do you have a choice? As a gentile NT Christian and not an OT prophet who was actually part of an entire race of people who were set aside for the purposes of God....do you have a choice?

I would honestly tell you that you do not have all the freedom you might think in order to make certain choices. we have freedom in Christ but there are different levels of that freedom. if we truly desire what is truth, I am firm in my conviction that God will lead us out into freedom and yes, it is a process.

As for Jeremiah, here is an article that should be helpful. bottome line though, is that YES Jerremiah had a choice and so do you regarding reading the article or even parts of it. it is up to you

Jeremiah 1:51 states that before Jeremiah was born, even before he was conceived in his mother’s womb, the Lord had specific plans for his life. Scholars widely interpret this passage to mean that God had predestined the course of Jeremiah’s life.

However, sound biblical exegesis reveals that the clearest reading of Jeremiah 1:5 testifies not to an inviolable predestination as to what the prophet’s life and ministry would be but to God’s sovereignty mingled with humanity’s free will. This article will show that even during the collapse of the kingdom of Judah, the Lord, wanting to save His children, never forced or predestined the will of Jeremiah.

I will also aim to illuminate a passage of Scripture that has long been painted with the broad brush of predestination. In so doing, we shall arrive at a clearer understanding of God’s all-loving and ever-respecting stance toward humanity’s total and complete freedom of will and choice.

Everyone has a choice.

 

[Niki7]

…but God never forces anyone.

oh my lands. the word dissonance comes to mind. again

you can't make this stuff up...that used to be one of the most used expressions in this forum...maybe I can bring it back again

and when someone asks me a question and then impatiently tries to asert that I am not answering one or 2 posts later...have you seen the rate at which this thread is expanding? I am behind but trying to catch up.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I understand but there are those that still hold to the Flat Earth concept.

Ignorance is to be tolerated and guided to Truth with patience but nothing can be done with plain oh unreasoning idiocy. Only God Himself can break that down.

You know? I don't believe those people actually believe in the Flat Earth concept. I think they purposely do that to ridicule the Bible by stating certain verses that are figurative to be read as literal. I've seen them on Flat Earth videos on YouTube/Tik Tok claiming to be Christian and then post those verse as literal. it's a way of discouraging non-believers from trying to read the Bible and get to know Jesus to be saved (because now they think these Flat Earth Christians are kooks).


🥧

 

[awelight]

God made the first move before ALL of us knowing how we'd all respond. Paul just has a more exciting calling than the rest of us. If he had refused, God would have found someone else to do it.

Check out Esther in her case:

Esther 4:12 When Esther’s words were reported to Mordecai, 13 he sent back this answer: “Do not think that because you are in the king’s house you alone of all the Jews will escape. 14 For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father’s family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to your royal position for such a time as this?”

Notice that God had brought Esther to that position to make an appeal to the king, but she had the choice to remain silent or speak up.

It's like that with everyone. That's why there are people who rise to become great servants of the Lord - because they were willing to - while others have less grand callings. It's all according to our free will and our level of willingness.


🥧

You said: It's all according to our free will and our level of willingness.

That is so wrong in so many ways but I doubt you really care to know why. Simply though - to put it the way you said it, would make it a "work" and not "Grace". Your "choice" and "willingness" shares in God's Glory. Yet, God deserves ALL the Glory. What would that look like in Salvation?

 

[Niki7]

So? He did the same thing we did to get saved. He just has a more exciting calling then most of us. We DO have our own calling from God too, if you haven't realized that yet....


🥧

not everyone is cut out for exciting. God knows who can take it. consider the lives all these exciting Bible reps had....not exactly a ride at 6 Flags ...

I once got kind of sick on one of those rides tho...

 

[awelight]

well no it never altered the original first post it brought a counter argument.

How are you able to counter being of the devil 🙂

I recall the prayer given to you to pray was the choice of him

Father lead is not into temptation

Too cryptic for a reasonable reply. Are you going into Salvation's steps now?

 

[selahsays]

not everyone is cut out for exciting. God knows who can take it. consider the lives all these exciting Bible reps had....not exactly a ride at 6 Mountains ...

So you don’t believe in election?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

not everyone is cut out for exciting. God knows who can take it. consider the lives all these exciting Bible reps had....not exactly a ride at 6 Mountains ...

Right? Like I don't know if I could have gone through what Jeremiah did, or even Paul. So I'm glad they actually stepped up to it!


🥧

 

[awelight]

So you don’t believe in election?

You don't seem to be getting a response.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You must first understand a scripture before you can apply it properly.

of so what choice is this

But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.

If they have to give account for every empty word spoke are they not made aware and given the right choice ?

Then we come to lords prayer who is the guard and hears the temptation and the reason for the choice to make.

Who helps you to choose to avoid temptation

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

not everyone is cut out for exciting. God knows who can take it. consider the lives all these exciting Bible reps had....not exactly a ride at 6 Flags ...

I once got kind of sick on one of those rides tho...

PS. - I actually love roller coaster rides though!


🥧

 

[Niki7]

Everyone has a choice.

that would be disappointing if I did not already know that you have the gift of avoidance

let me guess.....you did not read the article and prob have no intention of it

perhaps do not unpack anymore of your one liner questions in my direction as I actually might take them seriously and waste my time

 

[Mem]

I don't know. This thread evolved out of another wherein someone said that the elect are chosen by God and have no choice in salvation and the rest of us poor beggars are free to choose. When I asked for proof scriptures, I was given a mashup of unrealted verses that supposedly indicated that belief.

If you do re-find that site, I would be interested to take a look.

Thanks for your input...there are some very strange beliefs out there and they keep popping up.

Unfortunately, I dismissed it which means that I designated it to the lake of fire, with no intention of to putting anymore energy, or life, into the notion. And my only regret now is that it might've helped you in some way, though I'm sure it's utility would be the same as learning of the Mormon concept of spirit babies. Perhaps the ideas somehow related.

 

[selahsays]

You don't seem to be getting a response.

Yeah. I wonder why.

 

[selahsays]

that would be disappointing if I did not already know that you have the gift of avoidance

let me guess.....you did not read the article and prob have no intention of it

perhaps do not unpack anymore of your one liner questions in my direction as I actually might take them seriously and waste my time

I don’t need articles. I don’t trust them… but I do trust the Word of God.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Too cryptic for a reasonable reply. Are you going into Salvation's steps now?

That's up to God

Who's choice is this

I am the vine, ye are the branches. He that abideth in Me and I in Him, the same bringeth forth much fruit, for without Me ye can do nothing.

 

[selahsays]

I don’t need articles. I don’t trust them… but I do trust the Word of God.

Why are you so upset, Niki?