By the way, you did not show me where eternal election is in sight in Mal 1:2, as I requested.
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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By the way, you did not show me where eternal election is in sight in Mal 1:2, as I requested.
You're right. Paul is proving HOW and WHY God did not make a mistake in choosing Israel.
Your right again.
ISREAL as a nation is in sight. (not nations) God however does make the argument the gentiles would be brought in towards the end of Chapter 9..
Deny it all you want. But vs 1 - 5 prove this..
Once again, israel is in view (only God called them jacob here)
Sorry. But God never calls the gentiles elect in Chapter 11.. Every time the word elect is used it concerns israel. No gentile is included
Vs 5. A remnant, according to election. This is the saved of Israel..
Vs 7 The elect has obtained it the rest were blinded.. These again are saved Israel vs the blinded Israel.
Vs 28, Israel is our enemy concerning the gospel. but beloved concerning the election. Again, israel not gentiles.
The church is not a nation. it is a body of Christ.
God did not elect Jacob to salvation, He chose him as a nation..
Thats where the fatalistic view of romans 9 is in error
Go back to Gen 12, 15 and 17 and you will see it
Israel was not chosen to be saved.
They were chosen to be a special nation.
that election still stands today. Romans 11 proves it
yep
Not how or why God chose one fetus to heaven and one fetus to hell like fatalism teaches..
... but Romans 8:29 doesn’t say that. It says that whom God foreknew, and this is referring to the time before the foundation of the world, He predestined, not destined. He made salvation our destiny before this age even began.
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
- Romans 8:29
Yeah… which God gave us before the foundation of the world. Why? …because of His foreknowledge of each and every one of us. In that first age, those He chose and predestined for salvation must’ve done something right. Ah! Could it be that we stood up for Jesus instead of following Lucifer when he tried to take over? And in this second earth age, we are saved solely by God’s grace and through the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Selah
@MerSee …but in the context of predestination to salvation, this happened before the foundation of the world. Yes?
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Niki7
Guest
Yes. You have made it plain a good number of times now that is how you perceive that scripture
N
Niki7
Guest
You're making Jn 3:16 say way too much. God cannot possibly love each and every person in the world because numerous other scriptures say otherwise.
Furthermore, you don't understand predestination whatsoever. Predestination does NOT follow sinners' choice to follow Christ. You have that backwards, as well.
And you don't want to understand that your analogy is lame because it's unbiblical. For a biblical analogy, see my 4522.
When we came into this world none of us had any option to become anything but we inherited from Adam: a sinful nature, therefore a sinner! We came into this world DEAD in our trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1, 5) AND in the uncircumcision of our hearts (Col 2:13). What part of DEAD, don't you understand? Yet, you keep on portraying dead people as having the power of choice -- as though it's in their power to will themselves to life! This akin to saying that a barrel full of rotten apples has the inherent power to change themselves into good apples!Yet, scripture teaches that we are helpless, powerless sinners (Mat 9:36; Rom 4:6). Scripture does not portray the human race as a small child who knows better -- is conscious and aware of better, but didn't do it. Dead people have no consciousness or awareness or power of ability.
it says what it says. plainly and with no frills
I can't help it if you and the reformed people in this or anywhere, prefer the pretzel shape you twist it into
I am more than a little informed as to how you have worked very hard to change the simple, yet profound meaning of John 3:16 and other pertinent scriptures that illustrate the simple and correct understanding
as God has stated throughout His revealed word to us, CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE. sure sounds like choice to me
what we are helpless to do, is to save ourselves which is why, in keeping with what the Bible itself states, God sent His only Son to die in our place. He was sinless and God accepted His sacrifice in our place
spin that any way you want. it's not a game show though, and there is no reward for whatever misinterpretation you think you have landed on
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
- Romans 8:29
Whom did God foreknew? The WORD made flesh
Who was predestined to be conformed to be the image of God's Son? The WORD made flesh = Today, I have "BEGOTTEN" thee
Who is the firstborn among many brethren? the WORD made flesh
- Romans 8:29
Whom did God foreknew? The WORD made flesh
Who was predestined to be conformed to be the image of God's Son? The WORD made flesh = Today, I have "BEGOTTEN" thee
Who is the firstborn among many brethren? the WORD made flesh
Romans 830...whom He did predestinate, them he called...Them is plural. The He of verse 29 does refer to the firstborn, but not to whom He did predestinate.
I was explaining verse 29 for clarity.
Even verse 30 says Whom He predestinate, which we know is the WORD made flesh.
The them he (the One/Jesus) called is not predestinated but have been called by God during their lifetime like You and myself have been called in our lifetime.
30 and whom he predestinated, these he called; and whom he called, these he also declared righteous; and whom he declared righteous, these he also made glorious.
But the predestined is the WORD made flesh/Jesus.
It clearly shows us the predestined is Jesus and He called...just like Jesus says in the Gospels.
For Reference:
How does Jesus call us to him?
At its simplest Christ's call was “Follow me.” He asked men and women for their personal allegiance. He invited them to learn from him, to obey his words and to identify themselves with his cause. Jun 5, 2011
How does Jesus call us to him?
At its simplest Christ's call was “Follow me.” He asked men and women for their personal allegiance. He invited them to learn from him, to obey his words and to identify themselves with his cause. Jun 5, 2011
Wrong. Them is plural. It can't refer to Jesus. Only firstborn is referring to Jesus.
Jesus is the predestined one and He called the many.
It nowhere says the many who are called is predestined anywhere.