Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Thunderrr-mental]

Everlasting-Grace is the one who claimed to not be able to believe correct/sound doctrine.

I have no concern for your disagreement with eg

I was pointing out God was giving a warning

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Alof of people think God showed them something.

I can't claim that they all have heard from God.

So like I said, you can try to show me, and I will determine if I believe you or not.

I can't sow what you've already reaped

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I can't sow what you've already reaped

so you can't show me what you claim God told you.

Thats what I thought

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

so you can't show me what you claim God told you.

Thats what I thought

can't sow if your not recieving

 

[Mem]

No

Only those who believe are elect.

Why do you think your so special? Why would God save you and not someone else?

She is spedcial, to be exact. God hates liars, but he makes exception for spedcial people.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

can't sow if your not recieving

I can recieve.. Does not mean I will believe.

either show it to me, or move on..

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I can recieve.. Does not mean I will believe.

either show it to me, or move on..

demanding

 

[Niki7]

I disagree with everything you say, as I have an opposite view to yourself.

You do the usual thing those who have no point to make, or anything of value to add. You just attack the man instead of presenting a valid argument.

I notice you have nothing against John Calvin's interpretation of the gospel message, but you just hate the man. That makes me very suspicious of you and shows that you afraid of John Calvin and the only logical reason for your fear is that he exposes the false doctrine you hold to.

You're very unsure of your faith if a dead man threatens you. This makes me think John is right and you're wrong, because you haven't found any fault with his interpretation so you just hate it because it exposes yours.

You claim to be fully clothed with the righteousness of Christ, but I see the opposite in you

Insulting people seems to be your main reason for being here.

Just gonna put you on ignore

tootles

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Wow man, talk about a confused, contradictory and incoherent view. You contradict yourself every minute.
First you accuse Calvin's God of being an evil monster, then you turn around justify that monstrous false god. You can't have it both ways, God is either good or He's evil.

It's confusing to you. Calvins man made god is evil. A child can understand that, so can you. Any man made religion is evil. Calvins god is spiteful, uncaring, creating evil and people for destruction.
I'm being very clear when I say Calvins false god is man made and evil. Do not make it look like I am saying something else!!

Firstly Calvinists don't believe in that evil God who creates people for the purpose of sadistic torture. That god only exists in your imagination and not in the bible.
God doesn't punish innocent people, so your accusation is unbiblical and us Calvinists never claimed any such ridiculous thing./QUOTE]

Yes, you do! You just don't want to admit that you do.

John Calvin

"We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.

We maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment.

In regard to the elect, we regard calling as the evidence of election, and justification as another symbol of its manifestation, until it is fully accomplished by the attainment of glory. But as the Lord seals his elect by calling and justification, so by excluding the reprobate either from the knowledge of his name or the sanctification of his Spirit, he by these marks in a manner discloses the judgment which awaits them.

First you claim that God saved all people, because you deny that He failed in His mission to save all on the cross, then you turn around and say but He failed because He has to cast so many into hell because He failed to save all.

In fact I said God never fails. So don't put words in my mouth I did not say! That is what YOU believe. Not me.

It's obvious you don't know anything about Calvinism .

No, the problem is we DO know about Calvin. And he was nothing more than a man. So now we have his words, I expect you can defend them. Here they are again.

it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.

while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment.

so by excluding the reprobate either from the knowledge of his name or the sanctification of his Spirit, he by these marks in a manner discloses the judgment which awaits them.


In light of ...

John 2:16, 1John 2:2, 2 Cor. 5:14-15,1 Peter 3:18,Romans 6:10,Hebrews 9:26-28, Hebrews 9:12,John 11:25,John 1:29,Matthew 20:28 ,Romans 5:8, Hebrews 2:9, Hebrews 2:9, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 4:10, 2 Corinthians 5:14, Isaiah 53:6, Hebrews 7:27, Matthew 26:28,1 John 4:10, John 3:18, 1 John 4:14,John 8:12 ,1 Timothy 2:6, Revelation 3:20


Calvins dogma against the light of Scripture. Explain

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Insulting people seems to be your main reason for being here.

Just gonna put you on ignore

tootles

Yes well i see telling people your going to ignore them worthless

Why not just ignore him without having to tell him

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It's his life so you have to love his life in you regardless of feeling saved.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

View attachment 262866

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 10:1
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, ...


2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.


Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”



1 Timothy 2:4
Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Matthew 9:37-38
Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.”


2 Timothy 2:25-26
Correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Jude 1:23
Save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.


Luke 15:1-32
Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.” So he told them this parable: “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. ...


Luke 15:4
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?


Luke 14:23
And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled.


1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Apparently Pink never read a Bible.

 

[CS1]

so you say that Christ did not die to secure salvation for anyone but instead died to potentially save all people based upon their choice and not His. Is that correct?

Did I say that? No, I did not. I said Christ died for the Whole world as the word of God says He was given for in John 3:16 Jesus speaking. No, I did say it was based on their choice.

You assume that and interject that thought because you believe it is that way IF one doesn't hold to your understanding.

As Jesus said, His Father would say that NONE should Parish. Just as Adam has the free will to obey or not obey, men and women have the ability to reject great salvation. Doing so is not transferred as a work of salvation. That is a false narrative.

Just like saying receiving a Gift is a form of work. It is not. That is an opinion. Nothing in the word of God suggests receiving a gift is a "work."

The issue is when (IMHO) people try to force others into a doctrinal position when I have the freedom NOT to agree with it.
I am not a Calvinist or Armian. I am saved by Grace through Faith, Not of works less any man should boast. A gift from God that I have received.

 

[CS1]

It is not a hard thing to understand that God loves justice so much that He killed His only Son at the hands of evil men in order to secure salvation for His people and He justly kills about 180,000 people every day which is around two people every second because the soul that sins shall die and the wages of sin is death (Eze 18:4,20, Rom 6:23).

God loves those who love Him and they only do so because He first loved them (Pro 8:17, 1 Jn 4:19).

View attachment 262866

Hmm, really well. Let's just put that to the test, shall we Because actions speak the truth, too.

The woman at the well was a sinner. Jesus did not display love for her? John chapter 4.

The woman caught in the very act of Adultery Jesus did not show love to her either, right? John 8:1-11

Those who tried out to Jesus for Him to have mercy on and he healed them, was that not an act of love?

Jesus on the Cross: " Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Luke 23:34.



It is amazing those who claim to be the elect of God are so quick to judge others based on their "election. "

Those who try to make some text Elite, at the expense of all Truth in God's word.

I also find it funny that Mr. Pink, says from both sides of his mouth.

With "exception" reduces the Lord to a "Perfect Teacher" when The Lord Jesus is the Supreme authority whenever he is Speaking.
And John 3:16 has other parallel scriptures to support what Jesus said; however, Jesus's word stands alone.

Mr. Pink, that is a very Strong "Exception," sir! Take you take issue with.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

No God did not change the world. God hasn't done a single thing for the past 2000 years. Men of God changed the world

What about this thing he did


The Damascus Road: Saul Converted
9 Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. [a]It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”

Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

 

[Charlie_2024]

No he did not. where do you get this?

God spoke these words in malichi. Esau the person had been dead for centuries by this time

That doesn't negate the fact that God hated Esau, while he was still in his mothers womb. Regardless of of the passage of time. God said it and you either accept God Word or you reject Gods Word. You can't dance around the question and bring up things which don't change or challenge the fact.

I don't understand why so many people can't stand Gods Word as it is, so they desperately try to change it's meaning. Why can't we just accept it and move on.

 

[Charlie_2024]

You caused Jesus to contradict himself.

so lets solve the apparant contradiction.

Where did I cause Jesus to contradict Himself?

 

[Charlie_2024]

No alternatives?

Why not listen to what a person is saying other than listening with a calvinist or arminian perspective?

How about setting aside the arminian vs calvin debate and just speak about the word?

There are many alternatives.


Thats because they make it a calvin vs arminian debate.

Do you know how many calvinista or arminians are actually in this chatroom? I doubt there are very many, So why are we arguing about the two?


Or we can do like MANY have done, and chose NEITHER of the two choices..

I personally reject both forms of theology.. So I think it is a shame when someone calls me a calvinist because I believe in eternal security, or someone calls me an arminian because I reject calvinism.


I think you missed my point completely.

Again, you prove my point. You say there is a third option but you constantly fail to describe this mysterious non existent option. Every time you fail to provide evidence of it's existence, only con firm that I'm right.

It's obvious you don't even know what Calvinism and Arminianism mean, so how can you comment about a subject you know nothing about.

 

[rogerg]

That doesn't negate the fact that God hated Esau, while he was still in his mothers womb. Regardless of of the passage of time. God said it and you either accept God Word or you reject Gods Word. You can't dance around the question and bring up things which don't change or challenge the fact.

I don't understand why so many people can't stand Gods Word as it is, so they desperately try to change it's meaning. Why can't we just accept it and move on.

Because they can't believe, nor do they want to believe, that Christ really is the Saviour and they're not, Charlie_2024.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Same could be said of you my friend.


So we should listen to men? Since when should we place our eternity in the hands of another person?

God told us to study to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the word of truth

he also told us to test each spirit (truth)

The roman church does not want you to do this, because they would be exposed.. Sadly you have fallen into their trap

Now you're denying Gods order. He appointed Shepherds to watch over us venerable and gullible and Sheep.

There's nothing more silly and dangerous than a rouge sheep, blindly wondering around the jungle with a hungry lion tracking it. So with all due respect, I must reject your advice as like deadly poison.

I obey Gods order and design, by joining the flock with a faithful accountable Shepherd to watch over us. As Sheep, you and I don't have the gift of discernment. So we can never rightly divide the Word, that's why we all disagree with each other here.

We're just sheep acting like Shepherds. It's like the blind leading the blind, both fall into the ditch